How to approach the rebuild

TheStig

Member
OTOH I don't believe Eredivisie is really producing that much talent with high upside recently so I'd prefer someone with extensive knowledge of Ligue 1 as our SD or at least being close to him in a decision-making process when it comes to transfers. So someone like Luis Campos who has done a great job building that Monaco team a few years ago and who is now also doing well bringing cheap young talent to LOSC would be another option I'd consider.

Why? All the players from France that we signed in the recent years were flops of some kind. It was because different reasons but nobody really impresed. I think this generation of players from France is very talented but also very stupid on and off the pitch.

Anywas, did Laporta ever talked about Alemany or is that only a rumor? I know that Font didn't talk about a sporting director, as far as I understand he expects that Xavi will become an English type of manager who would be a coach and a sporting director?
 

Andresito

Senior Member
Staff member
Klopp won't come.
He had a long term project with Dortmund that was very good but not good enough. They weren't able to become a long term top team with players opting for other clubs.
With Liverpool it was a rebuild project like Dortmund with the difference that he won everything and made the club attractive to outside players.

Can't imagine the energy that he's had to put into a shit Liverpool side to make them the best. I doubt he'll want a start-from-scratch project again, this in a country and club that's very different to what he's used to.

I won't be surprised if Pep and Klopp keep their battle going in the national teams in the future.
 

Messi983

Senior Member
Why? All the players from France that we signed in the recent years were flops of some kind. It was because different reasons but nobody really impresed. I think this generation of players from France is very talented but also very stupid on and off the pitch.

Anywas, did Laporta ever talked about Alemany or is that only a rumor? I know that Font didn't talk about a sporting director, as far as I understand he expects that Xavi will become an English type of manager who would be a coach and a sporting director?

Our current French players were not bought from Ligue 1 directly except Todibo who was just a cheap gamble.

Griezmann has played his whole senior career in Spain so he can't be included here.

There were rumours Robert Fernandez wanted to sign Dembele in 2017 before he went to Dortmund. He obviously didn't want to come here sitting behind MSN who have played every game back then. But if we'd know Ney would leave we could've bought him for like 15m and loan him for a season to get regular minutes. Then even if he'd turn out injury prone like he has nobody would consider him a flop. And we'd probably already sold him with a small profit because other teams would still think his potential is worth a risk.

Monchi has signed Lenglet from Ligue 2 for 5m (the same thing Madrid did with Varane). Regardless of what you think about his recent form if we'd got him for that cheap nobody could really complain if he'd turn out into what he's today. And even with what we've end up paying for him I think his return was still better than what we've gotten from most players in a similar price range and even much more expensive ones over the last 5-6 years.

Sure, sometimes you need luck but you don't get lucky if you don't try. And it's also true players will usually develop better if they'll go through Dortmund/Sevilla as the stepping stone to a big club. But once they prove themselves in those developing/selling clubs they're already 3-5 or maybe even 10 times more expensive than they were just a year or two ago.

So in our current uncertain financial situation we should look to discover Dembeles and Lenglets of Ligue 1 before they're sold to other clubs. We've tried that with Todibo and he didn't pan out but nobody can blame the club for trying. He should've probably been loaned out immediately after signed in January to get experience in La Liga before returning in the summer but the idea behind his signing was understandable.

If some players are not considered ready yet for Barca at the time they're signed they could be loaned out to their original club (this could also drop transfer fee a bit) for another year to develop. We've done that with Pedri and it seems to be working for him. I just believe we should do those type of deals much more often than we did in the past. Emerson is also developing well at Betis. He might never be good enough for us (I do believe he deserves a chance though) especially now when Dest seems to be a real deal but he's clearly no Douglas like people were affraid off at the time we've signed him. If he won't make it here we should still make a solid profit on him.

I know in our current situation it won't be easy to pay 5-10m for a player we won't have immediate use for in the first team but if we discover the right player who could turn out to be an important player for the future in a year or two it's well worth a risk. Sure, you can find those players everywhere, even in MLS (Alphonso Davies) but I believe Ligue 1 right now produces the most talents (both quality and quantity wise) who are available for relatively cheap if you discover them soon and actually buy them not just keep monitoring them like we usually do and then 2-3 years later when they're young stars in other teams there are articles in MD/Sport how we could've signed them for next to nothing. Like how Wenger could've signed Messi and CR. :lol:

After Ligue 1 I'd put Bundesliga but mostly for their foreign talents as most German players will choose to join Bayern as soon as they'll show interest. Then followed by Eredivisie. Ajax won't sell their key players/stars for cheap (we got lucky they didn't seem to rate Dest too much) but maybe you can get someone in PSV/Feyenoord or other smaller teams. And Overmars's knowledge of the market could be useful here to possibly bring us some hidden gem from a team like Utrecht.

Or maybe also use his links there to possibly loan our kids who are not ready yet. Players like Ilaix or Balde could get regular first team minutes in Eredivisie in a year or two when they're too good for Barca B. I mean, RM has loaned out Odegaard to Eredivisie for 2 or 3 years and let him develop. We'd probably put him in Barca B for a season or two and then sold him for a small profit when we'd think he's not good enough for the first team while all he'd need would maybe be just a year or two more of playing at a higher level.


Regarding Alemany there were only rumours Laporta wanted him but nothing confirmed. Laporta didn't really say much about his plans publicly so who knows what he's doing behind the scenes.

OTOH Font said so many things I didn't really keep up with him :lol: but AFAIK he was adamant Xavi would be his coach and has later backtracked saying he could keep Koeman (when he was starting the season well) with Xavi as his boss or something which was just a BS. I'm sure Xavi will be our coach next season if Font is elected but have no idea about who he'd bring as a SD.
 
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FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
Man, reading Messi983 post, Neymar really ****** us leaving so late. We couldn't sign any replacement, so if he told us earlier he is leaving our future could look totally different now(We wouldn't have to blow hundreds of millions in desperation). We got a** f***** in every deal we made after Neymar transfer.

Imagine signing Dembele for 20 mil instead of 120mil. Nobody would be complaining about that deal.
 

soul24rage

Senior Member
Man, reading Messi983 post, Neymar really ****** us leaving so late. We couldn't sign any replacement, so if he told us earlier he is leaving our future could look totally different now(We wouldn't have to blow hundreds of millions in desperation). We got a** f***** in every deal we made after Neymar transfer.

Imagine signing Dembele for 20 mil instead of 120mil. Nobody would be complaining about that deal.

Yeah, Neymar leaving really screwed us hard. Everybody knew we had money to spend and needed to find a 'replacement' for Neymar that summer.
 

Porque

Senior Member
Man, reading Messi983 post, Neymar really ****** us leaving so late. We couldn't sign any replacement, so if he told us earlier he is leaving our future could look totally different now(We wouldn't have to blow hundreds of millions in desperation). We got a** f***** in every deal we made after Neymar transfer.

Imagine signing Dembele for 20 mil instead of 120mil. Nobody would be complaining about that deal.

We probably would of still blew it as Bartomeu had no sports project bar big name attackers to assist an aging Messi.

The summer Neymar left we spent the whole window prior to that chasing Verratti to "replace" Xavi with no plan B on the table. Xavi left 2 years earlier.

Suffice to say the problem wasn't so much when Neymar left but the whole first team restructuring and fear of pissing Messi off which is still present today with Messi commanding a first team role at 74 years old.
 

FC433

New member
Overmars is someone I could get behind as a SD. Ticks a former player box (which all our boards seems to like for whatever reason when selecting sport directors) but in opposite to the likes of Abidal or Zubi he actually has a lot of experience in that job.

Ajax and Barca are brotherly clubs with similar philosophy. Now obviously Ajax is considered a developing/selling club while we're a buying club supposed to compete for titles every year but I think in our current situation doing the rebuild with limited finances over the next few years it will be challenging and we could use Overmars's knowledge and experience with signing cheaper talents before other clubs snap them out or they break out in another club and their price go up.

It also helps I've always liked Dutch players eventhough only a few of them over the last 20-25 years were really great for us. I've watched some games of Dream Team but if I'd have to choose a single player responsible for me falling in love with Barca it would be Patrick Kluivert. I've watched him at Ajax and was elated when we've signed him. And the rest of his NT team mates in following years. It obviously didn't really worked out well but my admiration for Ajax/Netherlands NT is still there.

OTOH I don't believe Eredivisie is really producing that much talent with high upside recently so I'd prefer someone with extensive knowledge of Ligue 1 as our SD or at least being close to him in a decision-making process when it comes to transfers. So someone like Luis Campos who has done a great job building that Monaco team a few years ago and who is now also doing well bringing cheap young talent to LOSC would be another option I'd consider.

And I've already explained in another thread some time ago I'd love to get Monchi. Alemany wouldn't be a bad choice either IMO.

Zorc looks interesting too on paper but I think it's unrealistic he'll leave BVB. Dortmund and Ajax are clubs with similar transfer philosophy but in opposite to Overmars Zorc has no knowledge of Barca and he has also never played or worked outside of Germany so it's very questionable if/how he'd adapt.


At this time I'm not concentrating too much on potential future coaches, I just don't believe Xavi is ready yet nor that it's his time to return to the club with some of his former team mates still here. I also think we'd be better trying to do something different instead of trying to replicate Pep's team with much worse squad which is what I'm affraid Xavi will try to do.

Klopp would be a pipe dream but it's very unlikely he'll leave L'pool for 2-3 more seasons (he has contract there till 2024 IIIRC). I don't really like Pochettino too much and he also doesn't like Barca. And he's probably United bound once they'll get tired of OGS and won't even be available next summer anymore.

So if we'd think for an outside alternative (with no previous links to the club) my choice would probably be Nagelsmann. Yeah, it would be risky but still think it could work. But Messi and other amigos would need to leave before he comes. I think it's pretty unlikely they'd respect someone who's younger than them. But that's ok as I believe they should all leave in next 18 months regardless of who our president and coach will be so we can finally move on from the past and start to think about what's ahead of us.

Excellent post. Luis Campos should be available as well: "Lille manager Christophe Galtier claims not to have heard from Luis Campos since the end of the previous transfer window, as the Portuguese's future at LOSC continues to be in doubt."

I agree with you about Xavi. I do not think he is ready just yet. Klopp would be my first option, followed by either MP/ Erik ten Hag.
 

Laplacian

Senior Member
We're probably an interesting project to a lot of experiencing sporting directors. In financial ruins, squad completely unbalanced, worst team in 15+ years, and so on. I can see an ambitious SD seeking to rebuild Barcelona back to normalcy.
 

Messi983

Senior Member
Here is what I would do. Might be unpopular with some people and certainly not very likely with either Laporta or Font and their strong believe in "La Masia/Barca DNA" but I think it's time to move on from all the old core. They've given their all to the club and are just paid way too much for what they can offer right now.

- Messi - unless he accepts 30-40% pay cut (which I doubt) just let him walk wherever he wants to go

- Alba - yeah, he's the only one of amigos who has not fallen of the cliff physically yet but it's only a question of time when that will happen. And when it will it will be very bad. He doesn't bring anything else to the team beside his speed. Also getting tired of his behaviour on the pitch. If Messi leaves Alba will also be totally lost without him. Offer him to PSG (if that's where Messi will go) for 10-15m and try to bring Gaya for that money. Keep Firpo as a backup. I know this will be unpopular but at least he's still young and on low wages. We won't get any big offer for him so might just as well keep him for another year.

- Busi - I'm affraid the only way he won't be a starter is if he leaves. So play on "you might want to come back to the club one day in another role" cards and convince him to go to MLS for a few more years. Might be hard to do though as he will want to "keep up the level" for WC 2022. He should've retired from the NT long time ago anyway but that's another story.

- Pique - we have no idea in what state he'll be coming off a serious injury but he just turned 34 yesterday (BTW, happy birthday) but in his absence Araujo has established himself as a new leader of our defense. We could use the same tactics as with Busi to convince him to leave as he has ambitions to become club president one day. He also has multiple other interests in present day so he might actually consider retirement to focus on other things which would be for the best.

- Roberto - he's not exactly in the same position as others as he's a few years younger but his contract expires in 2022 so we should make a decision this summer. If Pep wants him and we can get around 25-30m I'd sell. Bring back Emerson to compete with Dest at RB.

Other players I would definitely offload:

- Coutinho - take whatever we can get. I'd even consider another loan just to free up some wages.

- Umtiti - he's doing well recently but just don't trust his knees will hold up longterm. The same as for Coutinho, if we could find someone to cover at least part of his wages on loan I'd take that.


Depending on offers/who we can bring (possibly on free transfers) consider selling:

- Neto - I'm ok keeping him for another year, he's a solid GK but if we get a good offer then Inaki Pena can step up as a backup to MATS.

- Braithwaite - again, I'm ok keeping him around if no good offer. He's not a starter but a solid versatile backup on relatively low wages. If we'll sign Memphis on a free transfer (he'd be an improvement over Martin) then try to sell him to EPL.

- Firpo - read above


Keep for another season and see how things go:

- Griezmann - Still think he has a lot to offer and with Messi leaving he could be the main guy in attack

- Lenglet - with Pique leaving/retiring I'd keep him as a more experienced CB alongside youngsters Araujo, Mingueza and Garcia. Personally I'm also not a fan of changing too much at once at CB positions where chemistry is very important.

- Pjanić - it would be too big of a loss to sell him after just one season. I still think he can give us more than Busi and hope Koeman will finally give him a fair chance.

Renew:

- Dembele - offer him a 3-4 year extension with 30-40% pay cut. Add variables to his contract so he could earn some money back if he stays fit and plays certain amount of games every season.

- Fati - don't know which version of when his contract expires (2022 or 2024) is right but he's an important player for the future so we should do our best to keep him. He'll surely want to be paid as (one of) the best players at the club (which he'll be if Messi leaves) but we could afford that with a money freed up from other players leaving. Would also be good to negotiate his annual wages starting lower for the first 2 years and then increase when our financial situation will hopefully improve in a few years.


Potential (more likely) free agent signings:

- Eric Garcia - not really a big fan of his but he's coming
- Memphis - Koeman wants him and I think he'd be a good addition
- Wijnaldum - as long as he gets a 3-year contract at most I'd welcome him with open arms

Less likely free agent signings:

- Alaba - not really sure about him as a CB and don't know how he'd do as a LB (if Alba leaves). Also, he'd require big wages
- Aguero - would only make sense if Messi stays (don't want another amigo scenario though) but in where we are in rebuild don't think signing him makes much sense
- Bernat - if Alba stays and Firpo is sold he could be a cheap backup. Wouldn't be too much of an improvement though and he's also injury prone.
- Dmitrović - Eibar's GK for a backup if Neto leaves. He's apparently already a done deal for Sevilla though.
- Rui Silva - Granada's GK. At 26 he'll want to be a starter so not very likely he comes here. The latest I've read is Betis is close to sign him.
- Calhanoglu - could add some depth and creativity in midfield but RK will prefer Wijnaldum
- Melayro Bogarde - 18 yo CB/RB from Hoffenheim - with Garcia coming pretty unlikely we'll sign another young CB. Under different conditions wouldn't mind getting him and send him on loan for a year or two to develop but we probably cna't afford that now

Possible (affordable) transfers:

- Gaya - see if Valencia will still be in a fire-sale mode and we can get him for around 20m. Would only buy him if Alba leaves though.
- Malen - don't know if he'd really be that cheap but if available for around 30m I'd try. Still more likely we'll sign Depay though.

We should also look at potential loan targets for players currently unsettled in their teams (maybe a more experienced CB or a striker) but too soon to give any names at this moment. Probably just squad players and short-term solutions to help us get through the next season but you never know, maybe we could find someone who could stay long term as well.


So something like this:

goalkeepers: MATS, Neto/Pena
defenders: Dest, Emerson, Araujo, Garcia, Lenglet, Mingueza, Gaya, Firpo
midfielders: FDJ, Wijnaldum, Pedri, Pjanić, Puig,
forwards: Fati, Griezmann, Dembele, Depay, Trincao, Braithwaite

A total of 21 players would also leave a chance to Barca B players to get some playing time.

Surely not a team to challenge for titles next year (you never know though with RM also entering rebuild and AM might fall apart soon) but with a current state of La Liga they should still finish top 4 which should be our primary goal in next two years. We just can't afford to miss out on the CL money.

OTOH we would have a lot of savings from big earners leaving even if we won't get much in terms of transfer fees.

Then in 2022 we can re-evaluate things from a sporting and financial standpoint and possibly make one or two signings. Most likely a striker and maybe a CB (depending on how the youngsters will do).
 
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malvolio

Senior Member
So something like this:

goalkeepers: MATS, Neto/Pena
defenders: Dest, Emerson, Araujo, Garcia, Lenglet, Mingueza, Gaya, Firpo
midfielders: FDJ, Wijnaldum, Pedri, Pjanić, Puig,
forwards: Fati, Griezmann, Dembele, Depay, Trincao, Braithwaite

jesus fucking christ almighty. i have never seen a more depressing squad than that. you wrote a km long post just to conclude with this abomination?!

that defense is everton/wolverhampton worthy mate :lol:
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
jesus fucking christ almighty. i have never seen a more depressing squad than that. you wrote a km long post just to conclude with this abomination?!

that defense is everton/wolverhampton worthy mate :lol:

To be fair it is based on where club are now and players likely to get in.

What defence would you realistically want to see?

It is still much better than Wolves/Everton though.
 

malvolio

Senior Member
To be fair it is based on where club are now and players likely to get in.

What defence would you realistically want to see?

It is still much better than Wolves/Everton though.

first off - fullbacks are complete and utter garbage. rather keep roberto and alba at this point.
CBs - rather keep one of pique or umtiti and buy another CB. keep araujo and garcia or lenglet.

also, another thing that i don't understand is getting wijnaldum. we need a CDM to replace busquets. not another player that plays the current position occupied by FDJ.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
first off - fullbacks are complete and utter garbage. rather keep roberto and alba at this point.
CBs - rather keep one of pique or umtiti and buy another CB. keep araujo and garcia or lenglet.

Gaya, Dest and Emerson are all complete and utter garbage? Dont agree with that.

Roberto and Alba will stay as wont get any bids for them would be my guess and more likely Emerson is sold.

Buy which CB?
 

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