Is it time to ditch possession football and build up something from the ground up?

Is it time to ditch possession football and build up something from the ground up?


  • Total voters
    68

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Then we have a big problem.

How is Barca supposed to recruit a worldwide renowned coach if he's not free to do his own thing.

Do you really think any of the best coaches around would like to hear :

"we want you to do something based on what pep did because pep is the best and since he's the best, you're inferior and so need to have a project based on pep's principles since, I hope you understood it, pep's the best".

Really. Well. I understand why Barca recruits third rate coaches now. It all makes sense.

In short, you guys want Pep back.

If you think Barca are gonna appoint a manager and let him make us a counter-attacking defensive side then you're on the wrong road.

If a manager can't instill collective pressing + clever and smart off the ball movement with his own style then he is not gonna succeed here.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Pep's system is not the only one who can bring success to Barça. It wasn't the 1st to do so, and hopefully won't be the last. Thinking like that is what is keeping the club from evolving. Most still believe this is the only way, or the best way. It was the best way back then, when Pep was here. Things change, football evolve. Pep is not even playing the same system at Bayern anymore.

It's not about replicating Pep's style. Pep didn't even had that clear of a style until 2010-11. His 2009 team was a conventional powerful team, with a classic 9 in Eto'o and a classic CM in Yaya Toure. He started to revolutionise things from 2010 onwards.
 

raminho

Member
What a great thread!

I was "WITH" Tata last year at this point and really embraced the changes he brought with him in terms of tactics and playing style.
I became a Barca fan when Rijkaard took over so in many ways Tata's style felt similar to Rijkaard's mixture of possession/quick counters. Unfortunately it failed probably due to Tata's "bland" personality, the pressure of the media and fans BUT mostly because of the dogma of "Pep's ERA".

We're all fed up with the current Barca and I don't want to label it "Lucho's Barca". I'm not against Lucho per se even though he's not doing a great job, yes, but who could with this midfield, past glories, the board and the secret "ingredients" we used to have but are now lacking?

I'm losing interest towards Barca (even though I've only missed 2 games in total this season) because there's basically no change. Again.
I was crying for change already with Tito, then Tata came and showed a little bit of promise for a while and now I'm hoping that Lucho COULD do something in 2016.

I'm hoping for the sake of Barca, for the future of Barca and for all of us who love the team and would love to see our team not just winning but playing with style. I miss the beautiful football and I miss seeing the passion with the players. THIS has little to do with possession vs. counter attacking or 4-3-3 vs. 3-4-3 vs. 4-4-2... It's about the ethos of "total football", the passion and hunger to move the ball, to attack and challenge whatever team your facing... Like some of you already stated well earlier.

I agree Pep gave us a lot but also gave us a lot of burden. One of the major burdens is the fact that a lot of the fans (even here on the forum) are just in it for the "treble" or for the clasicos or whatever. Too much pressure to win things, too much pressure to buy our own "galacticos".

I know most of you culés are like me, in it for the beauty and desperately hoping it'll come back. No matter if the possession stats are 53% or 71%. And it has to come back, right?

PS. I have to add that I'm FOR possession football, naturally, but it's not the whole story, there's more to Barca being Barca again.
 
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KyletheMuslim

Guardiolista
How do you define possession play?

If we want to have 70% of the ball every game regardless of the opposition then I feel only Pep can achieve the best results possible. Especially with the team we have, where most players are 170cm tall and only 2 or 3 are taller. Which means we offer absolutely no set piece threat (while being vulnerable in defensive set pieces) and we aren't able to play high crosses because no one can head the ball. When you limit yourself that much, you need to have a very detailed and clear plan of what to do tactically and Pep is simply the best at that.

People say that the Barca team of 10/11 is the best side ever. But it's the 08/09 team that actually won every competition it entered. The 10/11 team was better technically but in my eyes the Treble winning team had more to offer. They were strong in set pieces, were able to counter attack while obviously able to keep the ball.

Bayern under Heynckes were also a possession team. But they were a complete team, just like Barca 08/09 were. They tried to dominate possession every game but they used it effectively. Against Arsenal and Barcelona in the Champions League they gave up possession because they knew they could hurt those teams on the counter attack, and they did.

So in my eyes, it's about the interpretation of "possession play" and how extremely you want to follow the philosophy. Depending on the interpretation, it can work. But knowing Barcelona, it probably won't, because having less possession is probably seen as a humiliation here. Just like when Martino had 46% of the ball against Rayo Vallecano but won 4-0. Unless we get rid of that way of thinking, we will always chase Pep's shadow.

^This^, and remember we actually beat Rayo Vallecano 5-0 that day.
 

Barcaman

Administrator
Staff member
Barca played possession football long before Guardiola emerged. He transmitted that football philosophy in which he was brought up.
Same goes for Rijkaard and Van Gaal.
We need to stick to it and only tweak it as time goes by. Lucho is doing it it but it doesn't look good so far.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Barca played possession football long before Guardiola emerged. He transmitted that football philosophy in which he was brought up.
Same goes for Rijkaard and Van Gaal.
We need to stick to it and only tweak it as time goes by. Lucho is doing it it but it doesn't look good so far.

I agree 100%. And Lucho is not doing it right because he misses a couple of important components, most notably what each player should do when he is off the ball. At the moment, it's pretty italian style, with players sticking to their limited area of action and just waiting for the ball to arrive there. That's not how modern football is played. Modern football is all about movement, especially for teams that deal with air-tight defences all the time.
 

Barcaman

Administrator
Staff member
I also think that's the case. His instructions seem to be too rigid and players (especially midfielders) look confined.
It did yield some results; Barca concedes less. But we also score less and generally look out of ideas (that one is more due to declining midfield).
Cons so far outweigh the pros.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
The problem is Barca playing possession football. Possession football is for teams that keep the ball to just keep the opponent from attacking (i.e small teams). The base of the best team in the world was formed on the Dutch Total Football not possession football (although the possession came as a by-product of our domination). We have moved away from all out full attacking Total Football to defensive minded possession football hence the possession for possession's sake instead of possession with an intent to attack the hell out of the opposition. We need to go back to Total Football, our roots, in order to be our best again.

This is awesome post.

People are confusing total football and possession.
Barca always "copied" total football from Netherlands and Ajax.

And we basically always played versions of total football with Crujff, Van Gaal and Rijkaard.
Pep brought that to a new level, but in the last 3-4 years everything went horribly wrong.

As Behrox said, we played attacking, total football and product of that football was a total domination and possession.
But lately we don't dominate as with Crujff, Van Gaal or Rijkaard, we just have possession and nothing more.

So, total football and possession are not the same thing.
We should go back to attacking total football which brings possession with it, and not this current sterile possession crap which we are playing for the last 4 Seasons.

I have been reading this whole topic one more time, and again, I have a feeling that people either haven't watched Barca too much before Pep's era, so they think that Pep's way is the only way, or I don't know what happened, but too many people still think that Barca played well and won trophies only under Pep.

Further, again, Pep's system worked only for 2-3 Seasons.
And that system is extremely one dimensional with no plan B, and with that crappy short players thing.
Messi, Xavi and Iniesta are not on their prime, and what we have now?
= a bunch of short players past their prime and extremely one dimensional playing style

I have watched some Goals (whole Seasons) from Van Gaal's and Rijkaard's era in the last few days, and you can see that we scored so many headers, goals after corners, goals from outside the box etc. And a lot of semi-counterattacks.
While, when you watch videos from recent years, all goals are extremely one dimensional:
= we play against a parked bus, and all goals come after 1000s of passes inside a box

Again, some people will say that teams didn't play this way against us in the past.
Imo, we are guilty for that.
We play 1000s of passes on the ground and we aren't lethal with crosses/headers and we don't attempt long range drives.
So, teams just sit back and defend against our only weapon: passes on the ground and solo actions from Messi and Neymar.

Now, please, take a look at this video from Van Gaal's 2nd Season 98-99:
-- it is insane to see how many headers we scored
-- when you look at a video, we are versatile as Bayern
-- we can score after shortpassing, after counterattack, after a cross into the box (with a header), with long shots, with solo actions
-- teams don't know how to defend
-- in this era, nobody would allow Alves to cross 20 crosses, because Kluivert, Rivaldo, Giovanni, Luis Enrique, Sonny Anderson, Cocu scored 1000s of goals with headers

-- so, teams needed to defend both against counterattacks, shortpasses, solo-actions, corners, crosses etc..

Video:

Or, Rijkaard's Barca:

People should just take a look at different types of actions and goals back then and today.
Especially a lack of goals after corners, then headers after crosses and long shots.

The current copy of Pep's Barca is a disaster.
We should take a few steps back and go back to Van Gaal's or Rijkaard's style.
With more total football, more direct and fast actions, and to change this system of short players who can't do anything except to pass left and right for 90 minutes.
 
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vinni

Member
In my opinion i would be devestated if we changed to a different style of play.

Its the total football/possession style that made me a cule in first place. To watch a team like Barcelona play so high up on the pitch and let themself so open in the back just facinates me.

Such a style require skill and big set of balls and i will allways love Barcelona FC for it. I dont even mind if we loose some trophies as long as we stay true to our identity.

Marry xmas everyone :)
 

serghei

Senior Member
In my opinion i would be devestated if we changed to a different style of play.

Its the total football/possession style that made me a cule in first place. To watch a team like Barcelona play so high up on the pitch and let themself so open in the back just facinates me.

Such a style require skill and big set of balls and i will allways love Barcelona FC for it. I dont even mind if we loose some trophies as long as we stay true to our identity.

Marry xmas everyone :)

Well said. Cheers.
 

MagIX

Senior Member
In my opinion i would be devestated if we changed to a different style of play.

Its the total football/possession style that made me a cule in first place. To watch a team like Barcelona play so high up on the pitch and let themself so open in the back just facinates me.

Such a style require skill and big set of balls and i will allways love Barcelona FC for it. I dont even mind if we loose some trophies as long as we stay true to our identity.

Marry xmas everyone :)

+1

The day we play like RM (Chelsea style) vs Bayern München, I'll stop being a fan of Barca.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
who said we wanted anything like RM/Chelsea? We want the Rijkaard/Cruyff era Total Football back.

Yes.

It seems that some people think that Possession football means playing with 168 cm tall players and where your only option is to play on the ground.
If it works=awesome.
If not=you don't know what to do, and you just try to play the same trick over and over (and hoping that it will somehow break the defense) or you try to cross the ball to 168 cm forwards.

We want possession football with taller players and somewhat faster players, where you can both:
-- play on the ground
-- play some quicker counterattacks when possible
-- play some crosses and long balls for taller forwards like in Crujff's and Rijkaard's era.

Our current football from the last 3 years not only that it isn't effective anymore.
It is both ineffective and not too beautiful to watch.
 
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