Is it time to ditch possession football and build up something from the ground up?

[serghei]

Anyway, we should:
1. forget Pep's era

No. We should cherish it and make an ideal of it.

 

[Bertus]

That's not Barca's position only, that happens with all active teams. Active teams right now are Barca, Bayern and to an extent Real Madrid, but mostly Barca and Bayern. These two teams will play offensive football at all costs. Barca's biggest problem in recent years IMO, and there have been quite a few problems, is the inability to get the ball back fast after it has been lost. That's partly because other teams have started to cope well with intense pressure, but also because our players don't give as much as they used to on the field. Barcelona 09-12 was a truly unique team, formed 80% with players who have been raised in La Masia, or other players that have stayed the club for so long that they've become blaugrana also (Eto'o, Abidal etc.). And just as it happens with unique cycles, after the cycle was over and the creator of that cycle left, we made a few wrong turns led by an incompetent board that refused to accept the golden era is over and it's time to act fast and change the lines. The first thing we should have done is kept Pep. Pep didn't leave out of boredom. He left because he didn't have full controll at the team anymore. Guardiola was and will be the only one who could play the system with other players. Because it is his vision, his project, his way of playing. Everything that happened after him -- add to that Tito's problems -- was an incoherent mess. We still picked up some great results because we have some magicians in the squad, but Barcelona as a unity was done. My prediction si that we have in front of us another 2-3 years of being top 5 in Europe, but quite far from top 2. Unless something big happens and Lucho start showing something else instead of pure stubborness. But even if he does come into his own, he had a bad start in the summer. Him and the board messed up with the transfer. Basically, we lost two starters and bought only 1 (not includint the keeper). Our only true signing has been Suarez. That's fucked up. Really really really fucked up. Madrid, who won the CL last year, lost 1 starter, Di Maria, and brought two instead. Madrid had a better summer transfer period than us and they didn't even need it. Their management, uncle Flo or no uncle Flo, made ours look like a Sunday League team.

It's like that because their opponents are actually trained to not lose the ball when they get it back.

When I look at it, at some point everyone was fans of pep and many thought it was the only future of football (at leats here, how many coaches I heard during football shows saying Pep's system was the FUTURE of this sport). But those who actually managed to beat Pep are not those that tried to copy him.

BTW I want to add that PSG is facing the exact same problem:

- Last year Blanc brought possession football (a very very very pale copy from Barca, but still based massively on possession).
- It worked in the french league 8 months in a row, greatly.
- Then other clubs little by little managed to counter that system.
- Here we are, the tactic Blanc used last season doesn't work anymore and Blanc is unable to change his system.

 

[serghei]

It's like that because their opponents are actually trained to not lose the ball when they get it back.

Or because our pressing has no teeth anymore. I think it's more down to our significant decline than down to other teams evolving like crazy in 2 years.

 

[Bertus]

No. We should cherish it and make an ideal of it.

Cherishing what you currently have or had goes against the mindset humans need to have to create new things and make new discoveries.

I'm against cherishing Pep's era as if it was an absolute.

 

[Flavia]

Anyway, we should:
1. forget Pep's era
2. forget that crap about short players
3. we should bring back counterattacks, long ranged drives, headers (taller forwards)
4. change slightly the current formation, views on possession, stop being afraid of losing the ball and how will we defend (lol)

Pretty much this. For our current squad, I think a system similar to the one Rijkaard used would work better. I'm not sure what Lucho is attempting to do so far, but his focus on the fullbacks is clearly not working. It's been a while since we scored so few.

No. We should cherish it and make an ideal of it.

That's what is happening since Pep left, and you can see how much damage has been done. We should cherish it, yes, but to make that an ideal... I'd prefer to make an ideal to play attractive football, to evolve, because that Barça is in the past.

 

[BBZ8800]

No. We should cherish it and make an ideal of it.

This again sounds like Pep's system is so much better than everything we ever had.

I will ask:
-- what is so much better in Pep's system than in Rijkaard's?

Also, again, imagine that Pep didn't have Messi, because he is the only coach who had Messi when he played like an alien.
Imagine a Barca's team under Pep with: Pedro-Villa-Guily attack, lol.
Do you think that we would win 2 Cls in 4 years?

I will even give you Eto'o. If we wouldn't have Messi, let's say that we would never have sold Etoo.
Ok, so you can have Pedro-Villa-Etoo in our attack during Pep, and everything else the same.
I don't think that team would win more than 1 Cl in 4 years, which is equal to what Rijkaard did.

My point is, Pep's system isn't such a GOAT out of the system, when you remove Messi.
It is an awesome system, but we shouldn't stick with it all costs if it is not working anymore with the current players.

I would personally timetravel and take Van Gaal's or Rijkaard's system right away, than any of these Pep's replicas systems in the last 3 Years. (And who knows for how long we will go in circles with our future coaches)

 

[GoobiePls]

Possession football isn't bad, but atleast have some alternatives. A stronger midfielder like Yaya and being able to sit back and soak up pressure with a strong defence would do wonders. Barca's attack would do really well in a counter attacking set up tbh

 

[linetty]

No. We should cherish it and make an ideal of it.

This.

 

[instinct]

Xavi will be gone during the next summer. Iniesta declines because of his age and Busquets seems to have many problems. There is no way that we're able to even come close to what Pep achieved with his system. We shouldn't forget Pep's Barca. We should take the positives which can improve our current team/players but also add new things.

 

[Bertus]

That's what is happening since Pep left, and you can see how much damage has been done. We should cherish it, yes, but to make that an ideal... I'd prefer to make an ideal to play attractive football, to evolve, because that Barça is in the past.

This again sounds like Pep's system is so much better than everything we ever had.

I will ask:
-- what is so much better in Pep's system than in Rijkaard's?

Also, again, imagine that Pep didn't have Messi, because he is the only coach who had Messi when he played like an alien.
Imagine a Barca's team under Pep with: Pedro-Villa-Guily attack, lol.
Do you think that we would win 2 Cls in 4 years?

I will even give you Eto'o. If we wouldn't have Messi, let's say that we would never have sold Etoo.
Ok, so you can have Pedro-Villa-Etoo in our attack during Pep, and everything else the same.
I don't think that team would win more than 1 Cl in 4 years, which is equal to what Rijkaard did.

My point is, Pep's system isn't such a GOAT out of the system, when you remove Messi.
It is an awesome system, but we shouldn't stick with it all costs if it is not working anymore with the current players.

I would personally timetravel and take Van Gaal's or Rijkaard's system right away, than any of these Pep's replicas systems in the last 3 Years. (And who knows for how long we will go in circles with our future coaches)

Pretty much this. +1

But the problem is not the coaches, it's the board, the fans, the current players that don't want to let go of the past.

I might be wrong, but I believe both Tata and Lucho wanted to change things massively but got stopped halfway by the board, the fans' pressure, and even the players' pressure as seen last year when the dressing room was pretty much against Tata.

 

[instinct]

I might be wrong, but I believe both Tata and Lucho wanted to change things massively but got stopped halfway by the board.

You could be right (although there is no proof for that IIRC) but what would make absolutely no sense. Even our shit board has to realise that their popularity depends on our results on the pitch. Why should they prevent a coach from improving us? It's obvious that this will lead to chaos.

 

[Bertus]

You could be right (although there is no proof for that IIRC) but what would make absolutely no sense. Even our shit board has to realise that their popularity depends on our results on the pitch. Why should they prevent a coach from improving us? It's obvious that this will lead to chaos.

Because improvements don't necessarily happen right away.

And this board prefers to play it safe, so they are stalling IMO, in fear of what could happen if things change too much.

That's what I call being unable to cut ties.

 

[serghei]

That's what is happening since Pep left, and you can see how much damage has been done. We should cherish it, yes, but to make that an ideal... I'd prefer to make an ideal to play attractive football, to evolve, because that Barça is in the past.

Only on the surface and done by not very good people. Pep's system is a passing positional game with off the ball movement and pressing in the opponent's half once the ball is lost. I don't see why we shouldn't keep that.

 

[DonAK]

Pep's system didn't do any damage. Lack of leadership, lack of vision, lack of ideas at the top level have forced Barcelona back and not let us evolve. Possession football itself is not bad at all, it's what we're doing with pointless possession without any direction which is hurting us.

We need a clear plan, both short term and long term, but right now we have neither.

 

[serghei]

We should cherish it, yes, but to make that an ideal... I'd prefer to make an ideal to play attractive football, to evolve, because that Barça is in the past.

That Barca should become our way of playing. Pep's 2009 team was not that unconventional, it was a collection of stars playing as a team. Sort of like Madrid is today, but only better. When I say Pep's team I also refer to the 2009 team, which is quite different from the 2011 one. It's what we should be playing today, if we had a great coach and a people who know one or two things about football. Like signing a god damn world class CM, since we lost about 3 of them in the last 2 years (I count Xavi as lost).