Ivan Rakitić

[BBZ8800]

BBZ alone is responsible for a huge drop in the quality of this forum in the past years.

Dude, I told you a few times.
I think that you have a lot of football knowledge, but your flaw is that your whole footballing world is built around Pep.
Since you watched Pep in your formative years as a kid.

When I read your posts over the last 5 years, you are liking the same type of players over and over (Alcantara, Isco, Aspas, Samper, Denis, Arthur, Frenkie, Seri, Alena etc).
You have enough of IQ and knowledge to do way better than what you are currently doing with your tunnel vision, created by Pep in your formative years.

With other guys, I even like to fight, banter and discuss, but your posts and ideas are too predictable and too onedimensional, and this is why I rarely reply to you.

How should we play, according to you?
= 433 since Pep played that way
Should we have some physical players?
= no, why? Pep didn't have them
Should we add some aggression, some leaders, some fighting spirit instead of our choir boys?
= no, why? Pep didn't have them. Why would you need those in football?
Should we play with a false 9?
= absolutely, I mean Pep played that way. Bench Suarez and play Griezz or Messi as a false 9.
Should we buy a taller striker and try some crosses as a plan B in some matches?
= lol, no. Pep didn't do that.
Should we try something new?
= lol, no. Stick to Pep's system forever.

** a random though, I watched an episode of BarcaTv on my local sport channel yesterday.
And there were 2 episodes about Cruyff and Stoichkov.

Two interesting thoughts even from Cruyff:
1. when he was buying Stoichkov, he said: I need him. I need a bad boy for the attack. We need some blood, aggression, a street spirit, that will elevate our team to a whole new level.
2. the other thing is: after 2 or 3 La Liga titles, even Cruyff said: we need to move on from a false 9 system.
It worked like a charm in the beginning and our opponents were confused and didn't know how to stop us.
But after 2-3 years, the opponents figured out how to stop our system and it became harder and harder to win against any La Liga opponent, so I had to invent something new in order to keep winning.
This is why we bought Romario, a true no9 and this is the first time that we play with a true striker, after 5 years of a false 9 system.
= the only way to continue winning was to evolve and change our system which brought us victories in the first place.

Now go back to a beginning of my post, and then you'll figure out why your ideas are flawed since you are stuck in 2009-2011 and you can't move forward.
Even though a football and our opponents moved forward.

So, it is quite weird that you say that my ideas have helped to a drop of quality on forum.
No matter whether my ideas are good or bad, at least I am offering some ideas (more physique, more leaders, IQ, more fighting spirit, a plan B, playing with at least one true CF all the time, trying some other formations instead of 433 etc).
While your "quality" posts are: everything is fine. We should just do everything the same as we did in 2009

Seriously, I would be the happiest if you and some other posters who are stuck in time, would be able to get a job of Barca's coach.
Then once for all we would see that those things are not working anymore and that we need to move on.
EV is not the answer, surely. But neither is a carbon copy of 2011' used in 2020'.

 

[kattanib]

Dude, I told you a few times.
I think that you have a lot of football knowledge, but your flaw is that your whole footballing world is built around Pep.
Since you watched Pep in your formative years as a kid.

When I read your posts over the last 5 years, you are liking the same type of players over and over (Alcantara, Isco, Aspas, Samper, Denis, Arthur, Frenkie, Seri, Alena etc).
You have enough of IQ and knowledge to do way better than what you are currently doing with your tunnel vision, created by Pep in your formative years.

With other guys, I even like to fight, banter and discuss, but your posts and ideas are too predictable and too onedimensional, and this is why I rarely reply to you.

How should we play, according to you?
= 433 since Pep played that way
Should we have some physical players?
= no, why? Pep didn't have them
Should we add some aggression, some leaders, some fighting spirit instead of our choir boys?
= no, why? Pep didn't have them. Why would you need those in football?
Should we play with a false 9?
= absolutely, I mean Pep played that way. Bench Suarez and play Griezz or Messi as a false 9.
Should we buy a taller striker and try some crosses as a plan B in some matches?
= lol, no. Pep didn't do that.
Should we try something new?
= lol, no. Stick to Pep's system forever.

** a random though, I watched an episode of BarcaTv on my local sport channel yesterday.
And there were 2 episodes about Cruyff and Stoichkov.

Two interesting thoughts even from Cruyff:
1. when he was buying Stoichkov, he said: I need him. I need a bad boy for the attack. We need some blood, aggression, a street spirit, that will elevate our team to a whole new level.
2. the other thing is: after 2 or 3 La Liga titles, even Cruyff said: we need to move on from a false 9 system.
It worked like a charm in the beginning and our opponents were confused and didn't know how to stop us.
But after 2-3 years, the opponents figured out how to stop our system and it became harder and harder to win against any La Liga opponent, so I had to invent something new in order to keep winning.
This is why we bought Romario, a true no9 and this is the first time that we play with a true striker, after 5 years of a false 9 system.
= the only way to continue winning was to evolve and change our system which brought us victories in the first place.

Now go back to a beginning of my post, and then you'll figure out why your ideas are flawed since you are stuck in 2009-2011 and you can't move forward.
Even though a football and our opponents moved forward.

So, it is quite weird that you say that my ideas have helped to a drop of quality on forum.
No matter whether my ideas are good or bad, at least I am offering some ideas (more physique, more leaders, IQ, more fighting spirit, a plan B, playing with at least one true CF all the time, trying some other formations instead of 433 etc).
While your "quality" posts are: everything is fine. We should just do everything the same as we did in 2009

Seriously, I would be the happiest if you and some other posters who are stuck in time, would be able to get a job of Barca's coach.
Then once for all we would see that those things are not working anymore and that we need to move on.
EV is not the answer, surely. But neither is a carbon copy of 2011' used in 2020'.

Very valid points and new perspectives add value to any discussion as long as they have merits. Thank you for your contributions

 

[mc_lovin]

The thing is he really doesnt offer that. Hes just rambling on and on and on about IQ, leadership, physicality...

 

[kattanib]

The thing is he really doesnt offer that. Hes just rambling on and on and on about IQ, leadership, physicality...

Personally I find the post above alone by itself adds a very good perspective. There is a fact about humans and mammals in general, we are adaptive creatures. This makes you think that a system that works might eventually not be as effective due to adaptability of opponents.

To solve this I can think of a possible solution that Pep used to do, imagine playing Rock Paper Scissor without a pattern. You can have a big idea but the manager needs to be adaptive within the game itself. The big idea will keep your players familiar to the system but the in-match / situation adaptability will keep your opponents guessing. I remember back in the days Pep played with 5 defence against Madrid in the first half and then slowly shifted the formation as the game progressed and we won that game. He moved from 5 defense to 4 defense and playing Alves as a RM, once he felt comfortable with the 4 defense, he pushed Alves back to RB and subbed one of the defenders with a midfielder I believe

 

[mc_lovin]

The thing is he has his (more or less valid) standpoint, but just repeats it over and over again without adapting to our situation.

As you said we need to be adaptive to the players we have. Hallucinating about some imaginary players with certain qualities adds nothing. Who are these physical ingame leaders? Who is this great 9? I personally am very content with our attack and midfield this season. Dembele-Griezmann-Messi could work in 90% of games, if it doesnt we still have Suarez. If Suarez/true 9 system works better with Messi and Griezmann Im all for it.

But our squad this season is as good as it gets. We just need to find out what our best lineup is without biased, extremist opinions.

 

[JerseyAddict]

What I see here as an evolution of an idea is that "blame Rakitic" evolved from rants to mobs.

He can play various positions. He can score. Why he doesn't do that more often? Why is he a backpass maestro? Blame Valverde.

Look at him at 2018WC.

He is bad in recent Barca season. But the sistem is bad. He is what he is because of EV. Whole team and gameplan is shit besides Messi and MAtS.

And aRakitic is not surely first to blame for bad Barca results. He is usefull squad player. And surely has his place in Barca. Maybe it is time to sit him down on the bench. But to shit on him so much like folks are doing in last months is beyond level. It is a popular mob bandwagon. It is like you are not with cool kids if you don't shit on Rakitic.

 

[JerseyAddict]

The thing is he has his (more or less valid) standpoint, but just repeats it over and over again without adapting to our situation.

As you said we need to be adaptive to the players we have. Hallucinating about some imaginary players with certain qualities adds nothing. Who are these physical ingame leaders? Who is this great 9? I personally am very content with our attack and midfield this season. Dembele-Griezmann-Messi could work in 90% of games, if it doesnt we still have Suarez. If Suarez/true 9 system works better with Messi and Griezmann Im all for it.

But our squad this season is as good as it gets. We just need to find out what our best lineup is without biased, extremist opinions.

Our squad is good. EV is bad. He needs to change.

 

[Rory]

I think what rakitic boils down to is this. If there is a competent manager who is able to assess his strengths and weaknesses and deploy him in games that maximises strengths and where weaknesses will be less exploited then rakitic is a good squad player no doubt about it. When you have a manager that consistently starts rakitic in a game he is unsuited for then his weaknesses will be exaggerated and he will look like utter shit. He does have good qualities I just haven't seen how those qualities are so much better than the alternatives to warrant rakitic having a starting place here. If someone can produce videos of the last 2 seasons showing me what he brings (at a level that is higher than other barca midfielders) then I'd appreciate it because I am really wanting to see these qualities and believe in him. The blame is on the manager playing him in these types of games he isn't suited for but rakitic has to hold some of that blame too because at the end of the day he is a professional footballer and is the one on the pitch. Also there is no need for people to create a strawman argument of what other people are actually saying as it adds no value to a debate.

 

[DonAndres]

Dude, I told you a few times.
I think that you have a lot of football knowledge, but your flaw is that your whole footballing world is built around Pep.
Since you watched Pep in your formative years as a kid.

When I read your posts over the last 5 years, you are liking the same type of players over and over (Alcantara, Isco, Aspas, Samper, Denis, Arthur, Frenkie, Seri, Alena etc).
You have enough of IQ and knowledge to do way better than what you are currently doing with your tunnel vision, created by Pep in your formative years.

With other guys, I even like to fight, banter and discuss, but your posts and ideas are too predictable and too onedimensional, and this is why I rarely reply to you.

How should we play, according to you?
= 433 since Pep played that way
Should we have some physical players?
= no, why? Pep didn't have them
Should we add some aggression, some leaders, some fighting spirit instead of our choir boys?
= no, why? Pep didn't have them. Why would you need those in football?
Should we play with a false 9?
= absolutely, I mean Pep played that way. Bench Suarez and play Griezz or Messi as a false 9.
Should we buy a taller striker and try some crosses as a plan B in some matches?
= lol, no. Pep didn't do that.
Should we try something new?
= lol, no. Stick to Pep's system forever.

** a random though, I watched an episode of BarcaTv on my local sport channel yesterday.
And there were 2 episodes about Cruyff and Stoichkov.

Two interesting thoughts even from Cruyff:
1. when he was buying Stoichkov, he said: I need him. I need a bad boy for the attack. We need some blood, aggression, a street spirit, that will elevate our team to a whole new level.
2. the other thing is: after 2 or 3 La Liga titles, even Cruyff said: we need to move on from a false 9 system.
It worked like a charm in the beginning and our opponents were confused and didn't know how to stop us.
But after 2-3 years, the opponents figured out how to stop our system and it became harder and harder to win against any La Liga opponent, so I had to invent something new in order to keep winning.
This is why we bought Romario, a true no9 and this is the first time that we play with a true striker, after 5 years of a false 9 system.
= the only way to continue winning was to evolve and change our system which brought us victories in the first place.

Now go back to a beginning of my post, and then you'll figure out why your ideas are flawed since you are stuck in 2009-2011 and you can't move forward.
Even though a football and our opponents moved forward.

So, it is quite weird that you say that my ideas have helped to a drop of quality on forum.
No matter whether my ideas are good or bad, at least I am offering some ideas (more physique, more leaders, IQ, more fighting spirit, a plan B, playing with at least one true CF all the time, trying some other formations instead of 433 etc).
While your "quality" posts are: everything is fine. We should just do everything the same as we did in 2009

Seriously, I would be the happiest if you and some other posters who are stuck in time, would be able to get a job of Barca's coach.
Then once for all we would see that those things are not working anymore and that we need to move on.
EV is not the answer, surely. But neither is a carbon copy of 2011' used in 2020'.

You're completely misrepresenting my positions and the current reality of this team. I do not exclusively fawn over "weak, technical schoolboys" the way you love to frame it.

You can look through the threads yourself, I have supported athletic young players like FDJ/Jovic/Felix/Firpo/Konate/De Ligt/etc. countless times. Any sane fan knows that athleticism is crucial in football. You just seem to have an improper grasp of what it means for a player to be athletic and just how broad of a definition that is.

Athletic traits are ones that are translated across pretty much every sport. You always love to bring up the obvious traits like size or run/jump/push explosiveness or cardio/conditioning. But there's plenty of things beyond that you don't seem to value at all, like footwork/agility for one. That is one of the most crucial aspects in every major sport, and you don't seem to care if players lack it. Any person who has grown up playing sports knows how important elite footwork is and how it's one of the most defining things that separates bad players from good ones. Balance and body control is also important. One could even argue that overall peripheral awareness is a physical/athletic trait and an extremely important one in sports.

What's the point about all that? Well, Rakitic at the moment lacks basically every one of those traits. He is not explosive or fast at all, nor particularly strong. He used to have the conditioning to play at a high pace like 3-4 years ago, but his gas tank is not close to what it used to be and he is extremely passive/lethargic in his pace of play now. His hips and footwork are genuinely garbage compared to the level of competition he is playing against, and he has very little overall awareness on the ball. His field vision is often lacking and he needs time/deliberation for every pass he makes except for his trademark 1 touch backpasses.

And yet you hoist him up like some athletic midfield tank as if he were prime Schweinsteiger or Vidal. Your problem is you really don't seem to properly rate which players are athletic and which ones aren't. You used to claim countless times that Kroos was a workhorse, and that Rakitic is too. You were an avid hater of FDJ and grouped him amongst the "soft" players you associate with me, until you flip flopped and realized he's probably in the top 1% of overall athleticism for midfielders. One of the very few soft players you ever supported was Coutinho and you used to go on and on about how he was a crucial beast, look how that turned out. You constantly clown on Thiago for being super soft when he consistently outperforms Rakitic in defensive metrics and performance across the board.

Every single time I've described my ideal team I wanted a high balance of athletic qualities. I wanted Jovic at 9 who combines everything with speed/strength/jumping ability and elite ambidextrous footwork. I've only had praise for tall and athletic CB's like VVD, Ramos, De Ligt, Konate. You seem to prefer the much less athletic option at RB in Roberto, whereas I prefer Semedo. I would've been very happy if the club got someone like Felix/Sane to play at LW, even at the cost of Dembele. And I supported FDJ from day 1 while you were riding Rakitic's coattails even though the former is a far superior athletic specimen. CM's don't need explosive qualities as much as they need stamina and footwork/vision, you just don't understand this.

And you speak about me "not wanting to change" and "keep doing the same things that cause us to lose". Newsflash buddy, it was your WORKHORSE team that bit the dust at Anfield. Rakitic/Vidal central midfield, Roberto at RB, Coutinho playing over Dembele.

You got every single thing you wanted, and it failed catastrophically.

Just think about that for a second, and then come back @ me about perpetuating the losing tactics that we've suffered over the past few years.

 

[Devils]

Foot on neck.

 

[KingLeo10]

Lmao, that beatdown though brehs.

 

[Potroh]

Great answers by DonAndres, so no need, but let me add a few thoughts, perhaps you will understand at least a bit of the essence:

Should we have some physical players?

Yes. No. It doesn't matter. This game is played with the ball and mere physicality is more than comical on the pitch.
There are good players with weaker physicality and bad ones who look like professional wrestlers.
The best of the best - apart from the robotic CR7 - belong to the weaker type and there is an established reason for that.

You love Rakitic, all right, I also like him, but his time is over. But how about Messi, Neymar, Modric, Salah, etc.?
Are you serious wishing for a Lukaku at Barcelona?
So is Pedro or Andre Gomes the solution for the problems because they are tall and strong? Do you really believe that?
We are talking about football here, where athletically well-built players only survive if they are good with the ball.

Should we add some aggression, some leaders, some fighting spirit instead of our choir boys?

Fighting spirit is nice if combined with talent, knowledge and skill. Mere aggression is awful and it is the killer of the game.
A fast player will always have huge advantages in front of a strong one.
If you prefer aggression, fighting spirit, just watch a different sport.

Should we play with a false 9?

Doesn't matter. A good team (coach) can play with different tactics and different substitutes. Modern football is based on constantly changing and rotating positions.
Messi has always been a false-9, regardless if on paper he starts from the right.
A "real" CF represent the imagination of the past.
A Liverpool was very effective against Barca, without a real No.9 - even some of their best were unavailable.
You statistically minded, so go through the successful contemporary teams playing with a tall and strong CF and you will find that most failed, apart from the French NT, but there Giroud played all games but absolutely ineffectively. They won, because they play with 4 attackers and a Pogba, who can easily be counted as the 5th one.

Should we buy a taller striker and try some crosses as a plan B in some matches?

Forcing anti-technical English play-style will kill Barca ones and forever.
So you want a CR7 in Barca, don't you? Lemme tell you that it is the cheapest kind of football, the last resort of the talent-less and creativity-less clubs and managers.
You don't like "technical and skilled" players, because you don't understand that - most important - aspect of the game. Your problem...

By the way, SIZE rarely matters, it's not basketball, and only the marginally cultured women are the ones going for and are mesmerized by "size"...

Should we try something new?

EV did that. He fleeced Barca off its traditional style. 4-4-2 with "strong" defense. That's what you want?
The "something new" is Frankie, Griezmann because Valverde is not capable of anything new or creative. Nothing will change under EV, only players.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Rakitic is past it and at 31 that won't change again. He isn't the worst player ever and Valverde tactics + Busi and the rest of the team setup probably don't help either but at this point he pretty much adds nothing of value to the team at all.

Roberto moving to CM and Valverdes quotes on Rakitic at least give a little bit of hope he might actually leave, but then again he himself seems to be the only man on earth who thinks he has earned his safe starting spot at Barca for life here with his amazing performances so he would probably need to be benched a lot before he realizes it's over. Not sure if that will actually happen though, i can't trust Valverde maybe it was just a trick

 

[malvolio]

i would sell him and vidal and get van den beek or someone similar. too bad we missed on ndombele, he looked good in the friendly vs juventus the other day.

 

[EdmondDantes]

You're completely misrepresenting my positions and the current reality of this team. I do not exclusively fawn over "weak, technical schoolboys" the way you love to frame it.

You can look through the threads yourself, I have supported athletic young players like FDJ/Jovic/Felix/Firpo/Konate/De Ligt/etc. countless times. Any sane fan knows that athleticism is crucial in football. You just seem to have an improper grasp of what it means for a player to be athletic and just how broad of a definition that is.

Athletic traits are ones that are translated across pretty much every sport. You always love to bring up the obvious traits like size or run/jump/push explosiveness or cardio/conditioning. But there's plenty of things beyond that you don't seem to value at all, like footwork/agility for one. That is one of the most crucial aspects in every major sport, and you don't seem to care if players lack it. Any person who has grown up playing sports knows how important elite footwork is and how it's one of the most defining things that separates bad players from good ones. Balance and body control is also important. One could even argue that overall peripheral awareness is a physical/athletic trait and an extremely important one in sports.

What's the point about all that? Well, Rakitic at the moment lacks basically every one of those traits. He is not explosive or fast at all, nor particularly strong. He used to have the conditioning to play at a high pace like 3-4 years ago, but his gas tank is not close to what it used to be and he is extremely passive/lethargic in his pace of play now. His hips and footwork are genuinely garbage compared to the level of competition he is playing against, and he has very little overall awareness on the ball. His field vision is often lacking and he needs time/deliberation for every pass he makes except for his trademark 1 touch backpasses.

And yet you hoist him up like some athletic midfield tank as if he were prime Schweinsteiger or Vidal. Your problem is you really don't seem to properly rate which players are athletic and which ones aren't. You used to claim countless times that Kroos was a workhorse, and that Rakitic is too. You were an avid hater of FDJ and grouped him amongst the "soft" players you associate with me, until you flip flopped and realized he's probably in the top 1% of overall athleticism for midfielders. One of the very few soft players you ever supported was Coutinho and you used to go on and on about how he was a crucial beast, look how that turned out. You constantly clown on Thiago for being super soft when he consistently outperforms Rakitic in defensive metrics and performance across the board.

Every single time I've described my ideal team I wanted a high balance of athletic qualities. I wanted Jovic at 9 who combines everything with speed/strength/jumping ability and elite ambidextrous footwork. I've only had praise for tall and athletic CB's like VVD, Ramos, De Ligt, Konate. You seem to prefer the much less athletic option at RB in Roberto, whereas I prefer Semedo. I would've been very happy if the club got someone like Felix/Sane to play at LW, even at the cost of Dembele. And I supported FDJ from day 1 while you were riding Rakitic's coattails even though the former is a far superior athletic specimen. CM's don't need explosive qualities as much as they need stamina and footwork/vision, you just don't understand this.

And you speak about me "not wanting to change" and "keep doing the same things that cause us to lose". Newsflash buddy, it was your WORKHORSE team that bit the dust at Anfield. Rakitic/Vidal central midfield, Roberto at RB, Coutinho playing over Dembele.

You got every single thing you wanted, and it failed catastrophically.

Just think about that for a second, and then come back @ me about perpetuating the losing tactics that we've suffered over the past few years.

Masterclass of a post

BBZ is so blinded by his love of Rakitic he can't see he's become a nothing player. At least he doesn't call him a 'workhorse' anymore.