Johan Cruyff
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Cule Angles
Visca el filòsof!
Northern Ireland isn't "basically England", as an Englishman I resent that. Best is overrated because he played for Manchester United and the Theatre of Hype always manages to put their people on a higher pedastal than Liverpool's (see Fergie's knighthood v none for any of Liverpool's managers)
Beast
The Observer
Good point Adam , i totally agree
Poor_Sunyol
In Lucho we trust!
That may be some truth in that but he was pretty special.
Cule Angles
Visca el filòsof!
Oh yeah no doubt that he was pretty special, my Dad isn't a big football fan but ask him about George Best and he'll go into raptures about what the guy could do on the football pitch.
E
Esteve
Guest
In what way is Northern Ireland basically England? 
E
Esteve
Guest
You?
I certainly don't sing that anthem, nor do I love the Queen. Grr!
I certainly don't sing that anthem, nor do I love the Queen. Grr!
spursandbarca
New member
best isnt even the best northern irishman. blanchflower achieved far more in his career than Best. the man was 30 years ahead of his time
Nadal is a disgrace. His uncle played for Barca. I believe Nadals mother is from Barcelona as well.
Nadal is a disgrace. His uncle played for Barca. I believe Nadals mother is from Barcelona as well.
Cule Angles
Visca el filòsof!
It's the national anthem of Great Britian you prat and happens to apply to the Scots as well, hence why GSTQ was played when David Coulthard won a Grand Prix or Chris Hoy won gold at the olympics. A great many of us from England would like to see an English national anthem played at our sporting events so that our national side isn't "basically Britain" and as for "love the Queen", I'm sure the catholic communities in NI are all avid fans of her majesty
Metaphysical
Bomb Dropper
shankly didn't achieve enough. I mean when you consider no one had a knighthood except busby then what he did was the benchmark and shankly never really matched that did he? and tbh paisley was never gonna get a knighthood given that he's irish.
fergie got a knighthood because he won the european cup - and more importantly, the first european cup after the heysel ban (he also won the first european trophy after heysel too, the bastard) he put english football back on the map. anyway, what british manager since busby has won the european cup? barton and clough. barton's was a bit of a fluke (plus it was the 5th english win a row so I think the shine had come off the apple) and clough... well tbh I have no answer to that, clough should have a knighthood no questions.
I know you don't like the whiskey nosed bastard but if you look at it rationally it's got nothing to do with a "theatre of hype" and more the context.
and best was never overrated.
he could have been better were he not a massive alcy, no doubt (in that sense he's a bit of a mini-garrincha) but seeing some of the stuff he did on a pitch is fucking mesmerising and you haveta remember that a large portion of that he was probably hungover/still drunk/just taking the piss.
like you say, your dad doesn't even LIKE football but best turns him into a misty-eyed supporter. anyone who can do that is never, ever, overrated.
if he wasn't northern irish and thus had the chance to compete on a world stage he'd have even more attention and praise and his status would be up there with the all-time greats as it should be.
Cule Angles
Visca el filòsof!
1. I didn't say that my Dad doesn't like football at all.
2. "Overrated" is subjective and doesn't mean that somebody thinks he's a poor play, simply that he isn't as good as some believe him to be.
3. I know that Sunderland AFC has a distinct Irish flavour to it these days but the city is still very much in England and given that Bob Paisley was born there I'd say that makes him English and his three European cups make him more than worthy of a knighthood.
I stand by my comments but I wouldn't expect you to agree given your Manchester United sympathies.
2. "Overrated" is subjective and doesn't mean that somebody thinks he's a poor play, simply that he isn't as good as some believe him to be.
3. I know that Sunderland AFC has a distinct Irish flavour to it these days but the city is still very much in England and given that Bob Paisley was born there I'd say that makes him English and his three European cups make him more than worthy of a knighthood.
I stand by my comments but I wouldn't expect you to agree given your Manchester United sympathies.
Metaphysical
Bomb Dropper
1. fair enough.
2. oh ok, so we're using overrated in its proper context now? righteous. you can understand why I, after the maradona debates, would think that on this place overrated is basically synonymous with cack.
3. what?! who the fuck am I thinking of that's irish, then?
also yeah if he's english that's thoroughly confusing. although again, I suppose it could be a case of busby was first, so we'll give him a knighthood (plus he did suffer through munich - sentimentality is a powerful force, in fact that was probably the deciding factor that pushed him ahead of shanks and even big jock). and then again, fergie was the first one after heysel and dragged english football back onto the map.
you can make a case for paisley deserving a knighthood, and I wouldn't disagree, but if you go by the rationale that back in the day they only gave them out to truly rare individuals then it kinda makes sense. paisley didn't suffer for liverpool, he took over the title winners shanks had created and took them to the next level. impressive, but not as impressive as what busby, clough and fergie did (if only shankly had won a european cup).
and paisley's dead now, so, like, why would you give a dead man a knighthood?
that's another key thing, actually.
when paisley was alive, only busby had a knighthood. and no one else had matched what he did (and I don't just mean success but overcoming adversity). so it makes sense for no one else to have one.
but then when you give fergie one, for an admittedly impressive achievement, it does leave you wondering why clough and paisley were left out. but paisley was dead when fergie was awarded his. and again, why give a dead guy a knighthood?
still doesn't explain clough, though.
2. oh ok, so we're using overrated in its proper context now? righteous. you can understand why I, after the maradona debates, would think that on this place overrated is basically synonymous with cack.
3. what?! who the fuck am I thinking of that's irish, then?
also yeah if he's english that's thoroughly confusing. although again, I suppose it could be a case of busby was first, so we'll give him a knighthood (plus he did suffer through munich - sentimentality is a powerful force, in fact that was probably the deciding factor that pushed him ahead of shanks and even big jock). and then again, fergie was the first one after heysel and dragged english football back onto the map.
you can make a case for paisley deserving a knighthood, and I wouldn't disagree, but if you go by the rationale that back in the day they only gave them out to truly rare individuals then it kinda makes sense. paisley didn't suffer for liverpool, he took over the title winners shanks had created and took them to the next level. impressive, but not as impressive as what busby, clough and fergie did (if only shankly had won a european cup).
and paisley's dead now, so, like, why would you give a dead man a knighthood?
that's another key thing, actually.
when paisley was alive, only busby had a knighthood. and no one else had matched what he did (and I don't just mean success but overcoming adversity). so it makes sense for no one else to have one.
but then when you give fergie one, for an admittedly impressive achievement, it does leave you wondering why clough and paisley were left out. but paisley was dead when fergie was awarded his. and again, why give a dead guy a knighthood?
still doesn't explain clough, though.
Cule Angles
Visca el filòsof!
I wouldn't give him a knighthood now (I know I put deserves rather than deserved, my mistake), posthumous awards should be the sole preserve of the military.
Metaphysical
Bomb Dropper
ah ok. well we're on the same page then.
but as we're discussing knighthoods, what happens when in a few years time they crown sir ryan?
it's blatantly gonna happen (and he's deserving of it, his career is phenomenal) so how will people react?
but then! what about if england win the world cup? capello can't get a knighthood... so who will? beckham and gerrard for sure. perhaps terry as well? (given he's captain). be weird if they gave rooney one, given his age.
but as we're discussing knighthoods, what happens when in a few years time they crown sir ryan?
it's blatantly gonna happen (and he's deserving of it, his career is phenomenal) so how will people react?
but then! what about if england win the world cup? capello can't get a knighthood... so who will? beckham and gerrard for sure. perhaps terry as well? (given he's captain). be weird if they gave rooney one, given his age.
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