Josep Maria Bartomeu

[JamDav1982]

There you go, being perfectly fine with criticizing Laporta based on rumors and speculations, but totally unwilling to criticize Rosell/Bartomeu because "it's not as black and white". I think you're guilty of the hypocrisy you allude.



I said plenty already, none of which is generic.

No I never said they should not be criticized. I have said that some of the issues people bring up are not so black and white as people make out.

Not all of those about Laporta are rumours....regardless you are doing the same and basing things on rumours/opinions that suit you about Barto.

 

[Sumlit]

No I never said they should not be criticized. I have said that some of the issues people bring up are not so black and white as people make out.

Not all of those about Laporta are rumours....regardless you are doing the same and basing things on rumours/opinions that suit you about Barto.

Where is the proof to all this:

Laporta who used club money to spy on players, had more shady Brazilian deals, put his mistress on the club wage roll, supposedly paid for prostitutes on club card, tried to make multi million deals for his own company through his own company for Barcelona tours etc.

so that we can stop considering them as rumors and start taking them as facts.

On the other side:

It isn't rumor or opinion that they screwed up monumentally on the Neymar case. This is a fact.
It isn't rumor or opinion that they failed to act in a timely and assertive manner and received a transfer ban after having full knowledge of FIFA's investigation with months in advance. This is a fact.
It isn't rumor or opinion that the club President had to resign amidst scandals, that the vise-president who wasn't elected and part of the scandal continued to preside, that both are now indicted of tax fraud under penalty of jail. This is a fact.
It isn't rumor or opinion players were mishandled, mismanaged and poorly treated. Their own words echo this.
It isn't rumor or opinion the club suffered through years the poor sporting planning that left the team weakened for years. This is a fact.
It isn't rumor or opinion the poor management of Barcelona B, that has now directly lead to them being relegated in a most humiliating manner. This is a fact.

Need I go on?

 

[Barcaman]

It isn't a rumor that Barca under Bartomeu is the first team in history that won a treble.
Lucho just signed with Bartomeu when he comfortably could wait for next president.

Much bad stuff that Rosell has done is now being unfairly attributed to Bartomeu by Laporta's supporters.

 

[JamDav1982]

Where is the proof to all this:



so that we can stop considering them as rumors and start taking them as facts.

On the other side:

It isn't rumor or opinion that they screwed up monumentally on the Neymar case. This is a fact.
It isn't rumor or opinion that they failed to act in a timely and assertive manner and received a transfer ban after having full knowledge of FIFA's investigation with months in advance. This is a fact.
It isn't rumor or opinion that the club President had to resign amidst scandals, that the vise-president who wasn't elected and part of the scandal continued to preside, that both are now indicted of tax fraud under penalty of jail. This is a fact.
It isn't rumor or opinion players were mishandled, mismanaged and poorly treated. Their own words echo this.
It isn't rumor or opinion the club suffered through years the poor sporting planning that left the team weakened for years. This is a fact.
It isn't rumor or opinion the poor management of Barcelona B, that has now directly lead to them being relegated in a most humiliating manner. This is a fact.

Need I go on?

Neymar case and President resigning are same case - the rumour element comes from the variety of reasons put forward for this 'tax fraud'. You seem to scoff at fact that it was not an error or down to a misjudged attempt to save money...so what is the truth?

Team weakened for years...not a fact. Three league titles and two CLs with a treble is not poor. Unless you have some ridiculous standards of a team that wins every time. Barca came to the end of a cycle and like almost every succesful team in history tried to resist change to players and style for too long. See Barca in 2007/08 who slipped further than anything over last few year. In fact look at any team ever.

Players were not poorly treated - Abidal got a new contract when diagnosed with cancer, then treated as a player when recovered by which point the medical team thought he couldnt play at top level anymore so he was offered job at club whenever he wanted it.

Please dont go on about this Thiago treated badly garbage. Even then it was Tito picking the team not the board.

Poor management of B team.... B team were in Segunda for longer in last five years than have ever been in last 15 years. Including some high finishes with young teams. It will happen that they will slip out that league now and again if hey continue to play such young players.

Need I go on?

 

[Barcaman]

Aye. Too funny people accusing the board for the B team falling in 3rd division when under entire Lapirta reign they never played in higher division.
Priceless

 

[DonAK]

It isn't a rumor that Barca under Bartomeu is the first team in history that won a treble.
Lucho just signed with Bartomeu when he comfortably could wait for next president.

Much bad stuff that Rosell has done is now being unfairly attributed to Bartomeu by Laporta's supporters.

Yeah, it's not a rumour because it's not even true. Barca first won a treble in their history under Laporta. Had they not won a treble under Laporta they would not have had two now

 

[reDIOS10]

It isn't a rumor that Barca under Bartomeu is the first team in history that won a treble.
Lucho just signed with Bartomeu when he comfortably could wait for next president.

Much bad stuff that Rosell has done is now being unfairly attributed to Bartomeu by Laporta's supporters.

and I am asking again, wasn't Bartomeu Rosell's president?
edit- i mean vice-president

 

[DonAK]

Again, Bartomeu was Rosell's 1st VP. His closest ally. Also his personal friend.

Nothing is being attributed to Bartomeu. He was a part of everything Rosell did. To believe otherwise would be naive to say the least.

Unless you believe Rosell the bad wolf forced the innoncent great man Barto to join him, put his signatures everywhere and be with him on all the pressers and meetings.

 

[JamDav1982]

and I am asking again, wasn't Bartomeu Rosell's president?

What do you mean?

 

[dakt]

Only now when I see these trophies stand beside him do I realize what we achieved this season...

 

[Darko]

How can anybody defend this guy after all the damage he and Rosell did to the club, the money laundering, the poor treatment of club legends, the transfer ban etc.

 

[Sumlit]

Neymar case and President resigning are same case - the rumour element comes from the variety of reasons put forward for this 'tax fraud'. You seem to scoff at fact that it was not an error or down to a misjudged attempt to save money...so what is the truth?

Team weakened for years...not a fact. Three league titles and two CLs with a treble is not poor. Unless you have some ridiculous standards of a team that wins every time. Barca came to the end of a cycle and like almost every succesful team in history tried to resist change to players and style for too long. See Barca in 2007/08 who slipped further than anything over last few year. In fact look at any team ever.

Players were not poorly treated - Abidal got a new contract when diagnosed with cancer, then treated as a player when recovered by which point the medical team thought he couldnt play at top level anymore so he was offered job at club whenever he wanted it.

Please dont go on about this Thiago treated badly garbage. Even then it was Tito picking the team not the board.

Poor management of B team.... B team were in Segunda for longer in last five years than have ever been in last 15 years. Including some high finishes with young teams. It will happen that they will slip out that league now and again if hey continue to play such young players.

Need I go on?

Neymar's signing was done poorly and mismanaged. This is already a given. The only thing left to ascertain is whether criminal activity punishable by prison also took part in that deal. Two separate but common issues. The acquittal of the latter will not remove the fact this deal was done very very poorly.

Team weakened for years because of poor sporting planning is a fact. Results, again, do not erase this. Team toiled for years with CB problems, mismanagement of the midfield, mismanagement of the front-line. The end result, once again I must repeat myself, does not erase past mistakes.

Players were certainly poorly treated JamDav. You've got the words of the players in question themselves as evidence. If you would rather dismiss their words, then go on ahead, but their words echo their dissatisfaction.

Barcelona B project elevated that team to new heights because of how well managed it had become. Under Rosell/Bartomeu this project was mismanaged to the point that team is in total shambles, relegated in humiliation despite talent, and with little signs of the people in charge actually giving a damn about it.

 

[JamDav1982]

Neymar's signing was done poorly and mismanaged. This is already a given. The only thing left to ascertain is whether criminal activity punishable by prison also took part in that deal. Two separate but common issues. The acquittal of the latter will not remove the fact this deal was done very very poorly.

Team weakened for years because of poor sporting planning is a fact. Results, again, do not erase this. Team toiled for years with CB problems, mismanagement of the midfield, mismanagement of the front-line. The end result, once again I must repeat myself, does not erase past mistakes.

Players were certainly poorly treated JamDav. You've got the words of the players in question themselves as evidence. If you would rather dismiss their words, then go on ahead, but their words echo their dissatisfaction.

Barcelona B project elevated that team to new heights because of how well managed it had become. Under Rosell/Bartomeu this project was mismanaged to the point that team is in total shambles, relegated in humiliation despite talent, and with little signs of the people in charge actually giving a damn about it.

On Neymar said I agree they made mistakes and it cost jobs.

Barca ended a cycle and went from one CL winning team to another in five years while still getting league titles. That is not a failure in the slightest and wasnt down to the CBs it was down to a reluctance to change the style of team and players.

Totally unrealistic to expect Barca to keep on winning year after year and over past five years Barca have been by distance the best team in the world.

The team never 'toiled for years' at all. They have never gone two years without the league and rebuilt one CL winning team to a treble winning one.

What players were badly treate then? Can you tell me the one club that never has players leave and making such comments. Barca have always had that as have every club going.

You just ignore that Barca B over the five years have been in a better position than previous 15. The relegation doesnt change that.

 

[Sumlit]

On Neymar said I agree they made mistakes and it cost jobs.

Barca ended a cycle and went from one CL winning team to another in five years while still getting league titles. That is not a failure in the slightest and wasnt down to the CBs it was down to a reluctance to change the style of team and players.

Totally unrealistic to expect Barca to keep on winning year after year and over past five years Barca have been by distance the best team in the world.

The team never 'toiled for years' at all. They have never gone two years without the league and rebuilt one CL winning team to a treble winning one.

What players were badly treate then? Can you tell me the one club that never has players leave and making such comments. Barca have always had that as have every club going.

You just ignore that Barca B over the five years have been in a better position than previous 15. The relegation doesnt change that.

I like your revisionist history now. Team never toiled on the defense? The hell have you been? Team has been struggling with defense for years because of lack of planning and vision in reinforcing it. Song as CB? Busquets as CB? Adriano as CB? Mascherano converted to CB out of necessity? Injured Puyol our new signing? It wasn't until this year they did something about it and not very well done either. I guess we'll forget all that now. Add to that the mismanagement of the RB spot, the mismanagement of the midfield, the mismanagement of the forward line. All that we'll forget now because they've finally in the 4th year gotten good results and have finally made good moves.

Again about the players, there is evidence aplenty. Players themselves feeling mistreated and telling you in so many words. You do not want to acknowledge it or dismiss it as trivial or common.

You just ignore that Barca B over the five years have been in a better position than previous 15. The relegation doesnt change that.

You ignore that when Laporta stepped down he left a Barca B team with a successful and healthy project that had been improving steadily, was sustainable and had been churning top class players for the main squad. After Rosell/Bartomeu the B team will now be left with a project on a steady decline coming now for 3 years despite last season's 3rd place finish, culminating in this disastrous season where not only the results show the mismanagement, but the player's lack of growth and improvement show a much more serious symptom.

 

[JamDav1982]

I like you're revisionist history now. Team never toiled on the defense? The hell have you been? Team has been struggling with defense for years because of lack of planning and vision in reinforcing it. Song as CB? Busquets as CB? Adriano as CB? Mascherano converted to CB out of necessity? Injured Puyol our new signing? It wasn't until this year they did something about it and not very well done either. I guess we'll forget all that now. Add to that the mismanagement of the RB spot, the mismanagement of the midfield, the mismanagement of the forward line. All that we'll forget now because they've finally in the 4th year gotten good results and have finally made good moves.

Again about the players, there is evidence aplenty. Players themselves feeling mistreated and telling you in so many words. You do not want to acknowledge it or dismiss it as trivial or common.



You ignore that when Laporta stepped down he left a Barca B team with a successful and healthy project that had been improving steadily, was sustainable and had been churning top class players for the main squad. After Rosell/Bartomeu the B team will now be left with a project on a steady decline coming now for 3 years despite last season's 3rd place finish, culminating in this disastrous season where not only the results show the mismanagement, but the player's lack of growth and improvement show a much more serious symptom.

The defence and need for CBs has not been the problem as this season has proved. The last three CL exits against Atletico, Chelsea and Bayern the team had little going forward when it mattered. Said that all along and look what happens when they change the style, and midfield/attacking players.

No team as badly 'mismanaged' as you make out wins two CLs and three league titles in five years.

Barca have been the best team in the world over that time. You are just speaking nonsense to try and push this 'mismanaged' idea.

Why did Laporta only suddenly care about B team when Pep took over what about previous years? Pep rescued that team and set out new rules etc at a moment they were thinking of taking down the ministad to help build new stadium.

The issue of the B team is down to it being so young which has happened for a variety of reasons and they pushed it too far. That B team will be back and players in it will progress to first team.

Lets see what Laporta can do with a treble winning side over next five years. Should be plain sailing according to your rules. I predict it wont and would be doing well to repeat three leagues and two CLs in five years.