Kevin De Bruyne

serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Maradona37 said:
True, but that is a bit simplistic as to what I am implying. I mean Silva was a brilliant and highly influential player in English football, and I believe won more league titles than Lampard despite playing for a shorter duration. It isn't like Silva is all style no substance. I'd agree if I was rating Di Canio or Le Tissier or Kinkladze over Lampard, but Silva has the supreme style and won plenty at both club and international level (brilliant at Euro 2008 and Euro 2012, bit part player in 2010), and was effective too. Plus there's more ways to be effective than to score a goal - Silva created so much for Man City with his playmaking and clever movement, ability on the half-turn etc. And to show balance, it isn't like Lampard was a clogger who just scored goals - he was also a good passer and decent technically outside the box.

It isn't as black and white as Silva is an ineffective technical marvel and Lampard is a goalscoring clogger.
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Silva didn't do it in CL at the highest level for me. That is a problem for him and City in general before Pep took over. For Spain he played well but was 4th or something in influence after several better midfielders. When you have Xavi and Iniesta at peak levels... if you play alongside these players... things get easier. Lampard on the other hand was the main midfielder in a great Chelsea team that reached the top in CL. Won plenty of EPL titles also, 2 with Mourinho, one with Ancelotti, 4 FA Cups. I think he won more at club level, and was more influential for his team. Also did it in the great era of EPL in mid to late 00s and early 10s. Back when EPL teams would make CL later stages and even finals consistently (2005 - win, 2006 - final, 2007 - final, 2008 - win and final, 2009 - final, 2011 - final, 2012 - win). Let's not forget that back then Chelsea and United almost played 2 CL finals in consecutive years in 2008 and 2009. Since SAF and Mourinho left EPL, a bad period for English clubs followed. For 4-5 years until Pep and Klopp joined EPL and elevated Liverpool and City to being serious contenders in the Champions League.

For much of Silva's prime, City and Spain didn't do very well at the top level. For Spain this is also an indication of just how vital Xavi was. Silva and Iniesta were still in their prime, especially Silva who in 2012 just reached 27. And yet after Xavi declined in 2013 or so (let's remember that in 2014 he played a lesser role at Barcelona also, being mainly a sub for Rakitic), so did Spain.
 
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Maradona37

Maradona37

Well-known member
serghei said:
Silva didn't do it in CL at the highest level for me. That is a problem for him and City in general before Pep took over. For Spain he played well but was 4th or something in influence after several better midfielders. When you have Xavi and Iniesta at peak levels... if you play alongside these players... things get easier. Lampard on the other hand was the main midfielder in a great Chelsea team that reached the top in CL. Won plenty of EPL titles also, 2 with Mourinho, one with Ancelotti, 4 FA Cups. I think he won more at club level, and was more influential for his team. Also did it in the great era of EPL in mid to late 00s and early 10s. Back when EPL teams would make CL later stages and even finals consistently (2005 - win, 2006 - final, 2007 - final, 2008 - win and final, 2009 - final, 2011 - final, 2012 - win). Let's not forget that back then Chelsea and United almost played 2 CL finals in consecutive years in 2008 and 2009. Since SAF and Mourinho left EPL, a bad period for English clubs followed. For 4-5 years until Pep and Klopp joined EPL and elevated Liverpool and City to being serious contenders in the Champions League.

For much of Silva's prime, City and Spain didn't do very well at the top level. For Spain this is also an indication of just how vital Xavi was. Silva and Iniesta were still in their prime, especially Silva who in 2012 just reached 27. And yet after Xavi declined in 2013 or so (let's remember that in 2014 he played a lesser role at Barcelona also, being mainly a sub for Rakitic), so did Spain.
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Yeah you make some good points to be fair. Silva for me was technically superior to Lampard, but obviously that is far from everything.

Lampard was obviously a quality player, and Silva did play for a better NT. Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and Alonso all held more seniority than Silva, but to be fair in the two Euro tournaments Silva was excellent. I acknowledge that Man City struggled in the CL for many years but that may also be because the tournament was relatively new to them as a club.

Overall I see your points. I did love watching Silva play though - he was a magician.
 
T

Temptation

Well-known member
soul24rage said:
tbf, the team failed. They had a great WC18, but the fact that they underwhelmed in other competitions, it's hard to defend KDB.

Croatia was able to achieve 2 WC medals in that timeframe.
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They were the best team in 2018 and outplayed France. Remember France getting a lucky, jammy win.


Ultimately, luck plays a huge part in International Tournaments.


Oh and Hazard was the best player in that WC and nearly unstoppable. Don't care if they awarded the golden ball to someone else.
 
Fati_Future_BallonDor

Fati_Future_BallonDor

Well-known member
Temptation said:
They were the best team in 2018 and outplayed France. Remember France getting a lucky, jammy win.


Ultimately, luck plays a huge part in International Tournaments.


Oh and Hazard was the best player in that WC and nearly unstoppable. Don't care if they awarded the golden ball to someone else.
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If Belgium wouldnt have had Brazil before France they would won that match 💯
 
soul24rage

soul24rage

Senior Member
Temptation said:
They were the best team in 2018 and outplayed France. Remember France getting a lucky, jammy win.


Ultimately, luck plays a huge part in International Tournaments.


Oh and Hazard was the best player in that WC and nearly unstoppable. Don't care if they awarded the golden ball to someone else.
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I honestly don't remember the Belgium vs France match as I was depressed with Argentina's performance in that WC so can't opine on that match too much. Might have to watch it again. Would have been a great match to see WC18 Croatia vs WC18 Belgium though.
 
khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
soul24rage said:
tbf, the team failed. They had a great WC18, but the fact that they underwhelmed in other competitions, it's hard to defend KDB.

Croatia was able to achieve 2 WC medals in that timeframe.
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Belgium had awful managers before Martinez, in that they have failed.
But in 2018 when they were still at their prime, and 2021 when some of them were still there at good level, they were narrowly defeated by the eventual champions. In both times they gave it their all and wasn't some humiliation or slouching. And both France and Italy actually had better squad on those games.
Tanc actually answeres in stupid way, because what KDB was pointing is that other teams had golden generations too, it wasn't just Belgium to mark them as failures. It is like saying Klopp failed BVB because that golden generation didn't win CL, while ignoring that they weren't the best team
 
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