La Liga 2019/20

[serghei]

Ruled out correctly. Because it was an offside. The keeper was obstructed, as indicated by photos from bird's eye view and his own words.

Thus making your opinion incorrect.

And his own words?

That's like asking Neymar after a dive if he was fouled. What's he gonna say? No mate, I just dived to fool you.

 

[El Gato]

For sure. Which is why bird's eye view gives us the best indication of whether he was obstructed. Which it does show that he was. Doesn't make Courtois' take utterly useless, because it is consistent with what can be observed in the moment of the shot. Offside is an offside. Especially if the rule is enforced on a semi-regular basis across different fixtures, as I already showed you.

 

[Rory]

Forum doesn't really make a difference does it? Of course evidence would take time to collect for this claim. Which is why I'd be careful about making it if I can't back it up. As opposed to the case of some other people who would repeatedly state it with conviction and without evidence to support their argument, while also dismissing blatant evidence when it is presented to them. Which is intolerable and should be ridiculed if they choose not to revise their stance.
Besides claiming that Real Madrid had benefitted from refereeing decisions is absolutely fine. Nothing wrong with it. It only becomes a problem when somebody claims favouritism without proof. Based on hunches. You'd not accept it either if roles were reversed, so why should anyone else not point out the flaws in the argument?

No I just mean that it's a barcaforum right, so people's opinions and sometimes comments are an emotional reaction/typical bias reaction in favour of barca as opposed to hardcore evidence arguments. The forum matters because it's obviously mostly a space where people can express positive opinions about barca and shitty ones about madrid. Not every discussion on here has to be that serious and backed up with facts but fair enough if you want to argue against some people every now and then, just don't think it's worth it.

I personally wrote my opinion so that some barca fans would agree and my echo chamber could make me feel less sad about our shitty season lmao.

 

[serghei]

Bird's eye view? What the fuck is that. The only way to know if his view was obstructed is to see what Courtois saw. Like keeper camera on FIFA games. We don't have that in the game. All the cameras in the game are placed somewhere else.

I saw Courtois diving to save the shot very quickly, but not reaching it because it was shot with power and very close to the bar. Besides, the box was full of players, 3-4 of those including some Madrid players being in front of Courtois. Maybe his view was blocked by Varane who was right near the Sociedad player. Who the fuck knows?

In my opinion goals for these type of situations should only be disallowed only when it's super clear. It's not here.

 

[El Gato]

No I just mean that it's a barcaforum right, so people's opinions and sometimes comments are an emotional reaction/typical bias reaction in favour of barca as opposed to hardcore evidence arguments. The forum matters because it's obviously mostly a space where people can express positive opinions about barca and shitty ones about madrid. Not every discussion on here has to be that serious and backed up with facts but fair enough if you want to argue against some people every now and then, just don't think it's worth it.

I personally wrote my opinion so that some barca fans would agree and my echo chamber could make me feel less sad about our shitty season lmao.

Yep fair, as long as you're honest about it, don't attribute absolute truth to it and go even further into repeatedly passing off a baseless idea as fact. Anyone can wonder, as long as they keep it firmly on the hypothesis grounds. This being a Barcaforum doesn't make the tiniest bit of difference. There's still a base level of honesty that should be preserved, some people would prefer to continue the age old line of victim-like thinking, which deserves nothing less other than ridicule, especially when they state their idiocy with conviction and without reflection.

The only way to know if his view was obstructed is to see what Courtois saw. Like keeper camera on FIFA games. We don't have that in the game. All the cameras in the game are placed somewhere else.

I saw Courtois diving to save the shot very quickly, but not reaching it because it was shot with power and very close to the bar. Besides, the box was full of players, 3-4 of those including some Madrid players being in front of Courtois. Maybe his view was blocked by Varane who was right near the Sociedad player. Who the fuck knows?

In my opinion goals for these type of situations should only be disallowed only when it's super clear. It's not here.

Nope. He was obstructed as can be seen on at least two replays that indicate there were exactly three players in the line of the shot, one of whom was Merino in an offside position and who influenced the play, along with Courtois' teammates that played him offside.

Then you add to that the take of the keeper which is consistent with what is seen on the cameras and the fact that he was stood 1m away from the near post and dove late indicating he couldn't see the shot, which he would have otherwise saved.
And the fact that this rule has been enforced before.

Correct call, it's very clear with the available evidence, whether you like it being a technicality or not.

 

[KingLeo10]

Sorry Wolfe, I'm not buying it, because:

If you want absolute level headedness/impartiality, you need to apply those same standards to Barca discussions on Madrid forums and campaign for a base level of honesty there just as vehemently.

From my peeks over at BigSoccer or the spanish RM forums, Messi is quite often derided as a growth hormone product, Pep as a PED fueled success, and LL favoring Barcelona (there was a running count of days without a penalty at Camp Nou a while back) to name a few.

 

[El Gato]

Sure, you can assume how I'd behave - doesn't make that assumption true, but in theory yes, you're right. TBH I've had many an argument with RM fans in multiple languages over their utterly dumb ideas that have nothing to do with football being played. Suppose I could try to dig some up from reddit, but don't know if my account still works

Besides it's not the emotive response, outrageous claims or shitposting themselves that I would have a problem with, which you can observe here as well. It's the repetitiveness and the conviction in passing off opinions as fact, while continually failing to present any kind of evidence to support certain claims when challenged (laziness), taking no account of bigger issues that lead such people to even cling onto conspiracies to begin with (blame shifting), and while knowingly ignoring evidence to the contrary (dishonesty). Not sure if it's the best way to put it, but it's the expression, rather than the act. And some specialise in being bullshit artists around here.

 

[malvolio]

Bayern, Real and Juventus getting "helped" by referees. Is that news to people?!

I would say that those three clubs are in the first tier when it comes to dodgy decisions and penaldos.

We are in the second tier, don't know if this should make us feel better or not. Hey, at least we are not the biggest thieves in football

 

[serghei]

Btw, former FIFA ref and AS (Madrid based paper) analyst Iturralde Gonzales on Sociedad's goal.

"The level of interference by a player such as Merino is judged by the distance between the offending player and the goalkeeper. If the player makes a movement to block the keepers line of vision or duck from the path of the ball. Interference in a case like this is a very subjective matter rather than factual and I personally feel that an offside should not have been awarded, especially considering that the attacking player is outside the six yard box and at least 5.50 meters away from the goalkeeper".

Similar to what I said.

And the image from behind the net actually shows that on the trajectory of the ball, it's Varane who is blocking the keeper's view, as he is the one on the same trajectory with Courtois.

The keeper would have to be 2-3m more on the left for Sociedad player to clearly obstruct his view (red shape), instead of where he actually is (green shape). So, if Courtois is complaining he didn't saw the ball, it's because of Varane.

 

[serghei]

Btw, Iturralde on the decisions of Sociedad - Madrid.

- Casemiro could have seen red for an intentional and powerful elbow to the face. Min 21.
- Penalty for Vinicius was correct.
- Goal of Sociedad was correct.
- Goal of Benzema was correct.

All four calls were interpreted in the same direction, in favor of Real Madrid. According to him, 2 of those calls should have went to Sociedad. Red card in min 21 and 1-1 goal incorrectly disallowed changes the whole game.

The fuck is an elbow right in the face not a red? Guy lunges and elbows the dude right in the face.

 

[El Gato]

Finally you found some evidence! Now we gotta help you interpret it.

He's standing in the path of Courtois with respect to the action taken, which by itself qualifies as impediment on the play. Nor does a person have to move to influence the play, contrary to Iturralde's comment, who's also been proved to bullshit on the Ramos-Raul Garcia matter. Nor does the distance from the six-yard box matter, only the position being offside or not - this he wouldn't even have to bring up if he entered the analysis objectively, but he brought it up because he's trying to find reasons to make the goal legal.

The line clearly indicates he is looking at the very least through Merino's shoulder which again makes the entire case against the call bogus, because from the keeper's perspective you're looking down at the ball not straight (Courtois is taller) and therefore you'd need to see through Merino's torso to see the ball. Much less to witness the player lining up for a shot.

Again you're seeing things that aren't there, just like the Benzema bicep.

 

[serghei]

Finally you found some evidence! Now we gotta help you interpret it.

I expect no less.

I interpreted it just like a famous ex ref did, who gives expert opinions for your mouthpiece, As.

I was right here, I think the Benzema play is too close to tell. It's at the limit between bicep and shoulder and in this case, the goal stands. I'll give you that one.

Red card for Casemiro for that elbow. Anyway, all in all, Madrid got all the calls, Sociedad neither.

Agreed with the penalty. It's soft, but upon inspection, it's a penalty. Some similar things are not called for other teams, including us. Messi was also clipped while shooting vs Celta. Nothing was given.

 

[KingLeo10]

This is the intellectual version of Jamdav prime vs Jair Ventura prime going on here.

 

[El Gato]

I expect no less.

I interpreted it just like a famous ex ref did.

Nope. Here's how you interpreted it:

The Sociedad player is not even on the trajectory of the shot. Only way Curtois is bothered by that player is if his eyes and his dick change places.

Which makes no sense by itself, because Courtois is not able to see over the top of a player's shoulder standing several feet in front of him making the ball on the floor obstructed in perspective. And your 'smart' suggestion makes it even worse, because if his vision were lower he'd ironically be more likely to see it through Merino's legs

Cheers mate.

 

[serghei]

This is the intellectual version of Jamdav prime vs Jair Ventura prime going on here.

He insisted so much, I took an hour and gave it to him. Madrid were helped by referees who interpreted all close calls in their favor and gave absolutely nothing for Sociedad. Even their analyst agrees.

Same thing for Bilbao.

The conspiracy part was just ranting, because I'm tired of these things being so important in very close seasons. Unless we are great, we have no hope of clinching an undeserved La Liga title.