Lautaro Martinez

[khaled_a_d]

Can anyone explain to me in less than 500 words what is BBZ point of all of this? I mean I get he think our transfer sucks, but what does he wants us to do?
He think our La masia kid will fail, our big signings will fail and our smaller signings will fail. So what should we do? quit and accept we will suck and don''t waste money on transfers? close the club all together and just fund our hand ball and Hockey teams?

 

[serghei]

Can anyone explain to me in less than 500 words what is BBZ point of all of this? I mean I get he think our transfer sucks, but what does he wants us to do?
He think our La masia kid will fail, our big signings will fail and our smaller signings will fail. So what should we do? quit and accept we will suck and don''t waste money on transfers? close the club all together and just fund our hand ball and Hockey teams?

Can I try with one sentence?

We will sink like Titanic.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Can I try with one sentence?

We will sink like Titanic.

This is I get, but does he want us to be The Musicians of the titanic and do nothing until we perish?

 

[Vilarrubi]

I’d like to see the stats for Madrid signings in comparison.

 

[JamDav1982]

Likes of Digne and Malcolm were not fails... they were decent enough squad options did ok when called upon and sold on.

Todibo is not a fail.

Pushing it adding likes of Hallilovic and Marlon as well and Murrilo/Prince in on loan are not same as transfers to rebuild

Where do likes of Cillesen and Bravo come in? Bravo was a starter. Mascherano? Villa?

Picking and choosing to fit some pre determined idea.

 

[serghei]

Let's look at transfers from our most successful era.

2008:
- Alves: great
- Hleb: lol
- Caceres: lol
- Keita: good
- Henrique: lol
- Pique: great
- Pinto: ok (cheap backup GK for a few years)


2009/10:
- Ibra: fail (for other reasons than lack of quality; we can say the same for our recent 100m flops)
- Chygrinskiy: lol
- Keirrison: lol
- Maxwell: ok


2010/11:
- Villa: good
- Masche: great
- Adriano: ok
- Afellay: don't consider him a flop because he was cheap but didn't give us much because of injuries


2011/12:
- Cesc: ok
- Alexis: ok


Out of 17 signings only 3 have turned out to be longterm great starters.

There are signings and signings.

In 2 years, from 2008 to 2010, we have signed 4 starters: Villa, Mascherano, Pique and Alves. That's nearly half a team, and a new cycle. There are 3 high profile signings attempted in this period. Alves, Ibra, and Villa. 1 amazing hit, 1 very good hit, and 1 bad fit.

So you say from 17 signings only 3 have turned out to be longterm great starters. I say about 1/3 of those 17 signings were meant to be starters. You have Alves, Villa, Ibra, Cesc, Mascherano, and maybe Alexis. You have only 1 real flop here, and that was a difficult situation.

 

[serghei]

The team in 2008 was

Valdes

Zambrotta - Marquez - Puyol - Abidal

Xavi - Yaya - Iniesta

Messi - Eto'o - Ronaldinho/Henry

Give or take, right?

So, in 2008-09 we were looking at what signings in terms of players who would be starters for us? Well, you have RB, and that's about it. So we went shopping for a starting right-back and got Alves.

So starting position, high-profile signings intended: Alves.

In 2009-10, we have the Eto'o situation, where we signed Ibrahimovic. Rest of the team was set.

In 2010-11, you have Puyol who was older and needed some fierce competition. Rafa Marquez left. So we needed another signing who could play in the first 11 at any time. Enter Mascherano. Plus, Henry was nearly done in the first 11 after a poor 2009-10. Enter David Villa.

Greatest team ever with 2 starters signed at the begining of the season. 2/2 success rate. Both of which will play in the CL final that season, seamlessly integrated in the team in under 6 months.

In 2011-12, Villa got injured badly and was never the same. Enter Alexis who was signed to provide even more competition up front (but attack was still Villa - Messi - Pedro). Plus, we wanted to sign Cesc for a long time, and we did it as well.


So, the point is most signings that were directed at improving the first 11 were successes, some became actually legends of the club (Alves, Masche, even Villa probably). The other ones were meant as back-up, or were some talents (perceived as such at least) that we took chances on.

We got badly burned on only 1 transfer: Ibra deal. And somewhat Chigrinskyi because we clearly overpaid for that dude. Should've been a 15m signing not a 28 or what it was. Rest of the transfers are on the cheaper side, for squad options.

 

[JamDav1982]

Completely different transfer market even 12 years ago.

Barca could take more time and try to get more established top players.

There was not nearly the competition for players or as much money at other clubs to hold them.

 

[serghei]

They should take more time, but they should get their strategy in order. First, don't sign any more attackers for an offense that is driven by Messi and Suarez. They will not fit. We should use the time Messi and Suarez still have, about 2 seasons more probably, to really improve midfield and defense.

 

[mc_lovin]

Suarez will be 34 next season. Busquets has more seasons in him (whatever you think of that). About defense I generally agree, but I am not nearly as high on Upamecano as some others here. Who else? The Leicester guy would be obscenely expensive. We blew it with De Ligt (unpopular opinion I suppose).

If you write our first 11s down from 08/09 to 20/21 like that Suarez is the obvious player to try to replace (or get good competition). Other than that depth in defense would be nice (as there arent many top class options).

 

[behindbrowneyes]

They should take more time, but they should get their strategy in order. First, don't sign any more attackers for an offense that is driven by Messi and Suarez. They will not fit. We should use the time Messi and Suarez still have, about 2 seasons more probably, to really improve midfield and defense.

Very good point.
Most important transfer target should be a fast CB. I like Piqu? and I like Lenglet, but Piqu? is getting old. Lenglet is a very good 3rd CB but shouldn't be an indisputed starter.
We also need to think about a long-term replacement for Busquets but this depends on what they are planning to do with Frenkie.

 

[BBZ8800]

Can anyone explain to me in less than 500 words what is BBZ point of all of this? I mean I get he think our transfer sucks, but what does he wants us to do?
He think our La masia kid will fail, our big signings will fail and our smaller signings will fail. So what should we do? quit and accept we will suck and don''t waste money on transfers? close the club all together and just fund our hand ball and Hockey teams?

MY point was:
Fans, you need to be realistic about chances of every transfer.
Lower your hopes.

That is the point.
I am not saying that every transfer will fail and that every kid will fail.
Or that we shouldn't try.

But I am shocked when we see year after year: high hopes for every single young player.
Omg, Malcom is not playing.
EV is ruining Alena and Puig.
Omg, we will ruin Todibo.
Why is Wague not playing?
If we let go Arthur, we are dead.
In one post, we could see even an attacking trio: Fati-Lautaro-Trincao.

So:
Buy players, give chance to La Masia players.
But guys, don't have too high hopes.
Huge majority of them won't be nowhere near Barca's level for this or that reason.

 

[BBZ8800]

I have no idea where to start

I DONT expect Fati, Trincao and the likes to be first 11 material at all. Read my fuckign post, its infuriating. I just said that right NOW - with Suarez, Griezmann and Messi - its a reasonable approach to try out promising players like Fati and buy fairly decent talents like Trincao for small cash and hope for the best. Theres NO fucking alternative. When Messi, Griezmann and Suarez are gone we will further analyze our situation - and act accordingly (or not, who knows).

Fcuk me.


Sorry for using curse words.

You say that it's reasonable to try free Fati and cheap Trincao, with which I agree with.
But in other post, you want a 111m guy who can't score, named Lautaro.

I have nothing against Trincaos, I would rather buy 5-6-10 Trincaos and hope that 2 of them will turn into starters than splash the same amount for Lautaro.

 

[JamDav1982]

They should take more time, but they should get their strategy in order. First, don't sign any more attackers for an offense that is driven by Messi and Suarez. They will not fit. We should use the time Messi and Suarez still have, about 2 seasons more probably, to really improve midfield and defense.

It is harder to take more time these days even if mistakes have been made.

Timing is important as well... Alves was up there as a one man wrecking force at Sevilla proven at he highest level. Almost on a plate and obvious signing for Barca to make.

If he exploded like he did at Sevilla now clubs would be throwing big money at him after half a season.

Buying for midfield is difficult as it is impacted by the forward line and players get signed and dont play same role as did before.

Dont mind Pjanic signing at all... if Rakitic, Vidal were moved on and Busi role decreased but that is the issue it is unlikely all that happens.

Not that would value Pjanic at straight swap with Arthur.

 

[JamDav1982]

You say that it's reasonable to try free Fati and cheap Trincao, with which I agree with.
But in other post, you want a 111m guy who can't score, named Lautaro.

I have nothing against Trincaos, I would rather buy 5-6-10 Trincaos and hope that 2 of them will turn into starters than splash the same amount for Lautaro.

Not quite he 'cant score' he does have 16 goals in a team not built to one striker/goalscorer.

His finishing need to improve but you dont have to take such drastic opinions to try and make a point.