Lionel Messi - v7

[Ernesto GOATverde Tejedor]

Lol, you were serious about that? Messi has the poorest work rate and off the ball movement form all top forwards probably. Lewndowski, Aguero, Benzema, Ronaldo, all of these forwards move more and are more active off the ball in general.

Nobody expects top numbers for him in this regard, this big flaw of Messi's game was even more evident than usual.

Check this out. Just looked on UEFA.

Lewandowski has averaged 10,48km / 90 mins so far in CL.

Messi is on an abysmal 7,75 km / 90 mins. This means that Lewandowski runs in 2 games about the distance Messi runs in 3.

And consider that Messi is playing in an attacking midfielder role, which usually requires more off the ball movement and work rate than CF role.

Yes I was serious and I'm still serious because none of the players you mentioned dribble or are even close to creating a tenth of what Lio does. Ridiculous comparison.

Of course those players run more because they expend less energy with the ball. 90% of their game consists of get it play it wide get in the box. In contrast 90% of Messis game is dribbling driving at the opponent or twisting and turning holding off big 6ft beasts, looking to advance the play and turn defense in to attack. Play the game, try both styles of play and tell me which one saps your energy quicker.

Sure he runs less but to focus on that and ignore the fact that without his goals and creation we are barely a top 4 team seems agenda driven to me. You must be a fan of Griez , he will do the running for you, maybe we should drop Messi for Griez and see how it works out?

Or ask Messi to simplify his game like the players you mentioned. Give it, play it wide, get in the box. And use the eztra 2.5kms a match to press the opposition. Genius !

 

[snowy]

He's not a leader. Never was, never will be. He wasn't vocal, didn't understand our underlying issues after back to back humiliating losses in the CL.

Messi can talk about how desperate he is to win the CL, but the lack of self-criticism from him and hiding from the press letting new guys like de Jong talk to the press isn't indicative of a man that knows what our issues are, or a man that want to take some responsibility.

Some people are going to get butthurt now, but as Ernie says, it is what it is.

Late Latex session with M-tress Kiara or early M-Thai Fairtex training with Kuhn Supaporn, butts will get red in the hurt locker. No ifs n butts 'bout it

Man I'm so glad he stopped speaking. Last time he spoke at the Comicon vs Brazil, every1 not argie wanted to give him a bikini wax in Waikiki

 

[Mitchell1978]

Messi is on an abysmal 7,75 km / 90 mins. This means that Lewandowski runs in 2 games about the distance Messi runs in 3.

and yet thats only slightly lower then it was for example in 2010-11 when it was around 8,5 km

Messi is still playing more or less like he always has.

 

[Sorin]

and yet thats only slightly lower then it was for example in 2010-11 when it was around 8,5 km

Messi is still playing more or less like he always has.

This is what I've been saying. The difference in km ran between peak Messi and this version is almost insignificant. But of course, we had a manager that would force him to stay in the last 30% portion of the pitch and let the others build up attacks. He was just the cherry on the top. Sure the likes of Xavi, Iniesta are no more but that doesn't stop other teams from completely dominating the middle of the pitch and creating attacks through the middle instead of Ernie's pass the ball to Semedo and Alba kind of build up.

I'm still positive that with a good manager we would be able to mask Messi's deficencies and still profit from his out of this world genius. Not with Valverde though.

 

[soul24rage]

The difference between the 2011 side and this side is that right now, we now have 2 players walking instead of one. This is why Suarez has to be a super sub and replace him with Griezmann. Or make Messi the false 9.

 

[serghei]

and yet thats only slightly lower then it was for example in 2010-11 when it was around 8,5 km

Messi is still playing more or less like he always has.

1km difference is noticeable, but, as others have said, in 2011 we had an unreal team and one of the best managers of all time. Also Messi was much faster back then.

Your comment is in the line with what I said in the past. Messi was never a great worker, but right now he is at his lowest contribution in terms of effort off the ball.

Also he is not playing like he always has. There are some important differences.

 

[serghei]

This is what I've been saying. The difference in km ran between peak Messi and this version is almost insignificant. But of course, we had a manager that would force him to stay in the last 30% portion of the pitch and let the others build up attacks. He was just the cherry on the top. Sure the likes of Xavi, Iniesta are no more but that doesn't stop other teams from completely dominating the middle of the pitch and creating attacks through the middle instead of Ernie's pass the ball to Semedo and Alba kind of build up.

I'm still positive that with a good manager we would be able to mask Messi's deficencies and still profit from his out of this world genius. Not with Valverde though.

This is true. So he ran a 15-20% more in his prime but his kms were more structured. Not a big difference in terms of kms but a big difference in terms of how and when he moved. He didn't wander around where he felt like, but where it was needed and asked by the manager according to the philosophy & game interpretation of Guardiola.

Right now he does more or less what he wants and everybody else must adapt to that. In the past everyone adapted to and followed the tactical plan. So it is a big difference in how his game looked. This is why he's won only 1 Ballon d'Or in in 6 years post Pep and 4/4 with Pep.

But it is kind of too late for Messi. He is more the past of this team than its future and it's time to make him less the central piece of the team.

 

[Andresito]

Messi walking was never the problem. He's done it for the past 10 years.

Problem is, we have 2 players that need to be covered for compared to the last decade. Suárez is currently 2nd in the club's hierarchy after Messi and is way too comfortable in the team.

Won't even mention Pedro and Eto'o, their workrate was obvious. Neymar was seriously underrated in defense when he was here. He always tracked back and Suárez used to be able to cover the right wing from time to time.

 

[JohnN]

We've never been good away from Camp Nou and we still aren't. This is no surprise. Messi's workrate is the least of our problems, as he has always been conserving more energy than others. Cherry picking this fact is absurd.
Not a great worker? No, if your expectation from a player is to run more than 11km every game, Messi is one of the worst players ever.
If you consider him an AM/LW though, then he created so many chances, it's almost cheat like.
Sergei, you seem to have a thing for this. In my opinion, you are missing the point of having a player like him on the team. It's not about using him to run all the time. It's about using him to open up spaces, create chances and score. He did that brilliantly. To make it clear with a silly example, this is like criticizing Ter Stegen for not pressing. That is not his role.

Edit: Also, how can you have missed that Messi's goal, starts from him pressing and stealing the ball. Amazing stuff.

 

[Sailor Mars]

Nobody is asking Messi to become a workhorse, but there were times where the Slavia player had the ball and was only about 7-8 feet away from Messi and Messi didn't even bother to try and press. He should at least give a sense of trying to take away the time and space from the opposition. Not a big deal against this opposition, but against better teams you can't allow this much time and space for a player.

For eg. Liverpool's full backs are great at playing the longballs and sending them in for well-timed runs from the speedy Salah or Mane. This team cannot afford to let someone pick and choose where they want to pass.

 

[JohnN]

But he was pressing this game. This is what amazes me the most. Not like Pedro for sure and not in the last 10 minutes. Anyway, too much fuss about this game for no reason.

 

[eaman]

Nobody is asking Messi to become a workhorse, but there were times where the Slavia player had the ball and was only about 7-8 feet away from Messi and Messi didn't even bother to try and press. He should at least give a sense of trying to take away the time and space from the opposition. Not a big deal against this opposition, but against better teams you can't allow this much time and space for a player.

For eg. Liverpool's full backs are great at playing the longballs and sending them in for well-timed runs from the speedy Salah or Mane. This team cannot afford to let someone pick and choose where they want to pass.

Messi usually presses in his area. If he wasnt pressing it's probably because it was somebody else's job. I have seen him not press a guy who was close by on the wing but messi was playing centrally and eventually whoever was out wide came up and pressed. Last night when messi was central he even pressed the keeper on a couple of occasions and I have seen him do that alot

 

[bismp]

Messi is the least of our problems.Give him a good manager with tactics and the balls to bench Suarez and we would be winning the CL in no time.

 

[Jallo]

Messi needs to start showing some leadership out there. He is captain and his team is under performing under a bad coach. The least he can do is make sure his guys are motivated. His slouching and overall body language really do not inspire hope. I sincerely hope he talks to Valverde about dropping some of the dead weight. The team is logging around.

 

[FC433]

This is how we look:


When Messi does not press, other players (FDJ, for example) will try to cover:


When FDJ is pulled out of his position, other players will have to cover, which is going to create many spaces for our opponents to take advantage of.

Underestimating Messi's lack of effort is very wrong. It is like a hole in a ship. When Messi does not press that means ANY area that Messi covers is a comfortable area for our opponents to start their play because Messi is not pressing them.

The issue (Messi not pressing) got worse when: 1- Suarez is not putting as much effort as he used to and 2- Busquets' lack of pace.

What can we do then?

We can either play 4231 or 433 with false 9. Both of these formations will not work with Busquets and Suarez. Also, it is important that Messi sticks to his position in both formations.