Lionel Messi - v7

[Hardy]

first of all we should take a manager with balls who doesn't give a fuck to bench the dinosaur club, now tell me how many managers available have that profile.

 

[BBZ8800]

Don't know if I should spend more time on this narrative, but let us remember our incredible away performances at the start of the season without Messi for a bit. They weren't great at all, were they? Something else must be the problem then.

No.
It works like this:
1. Without Messi we are horrible because currently we haven't created new patterns without him. It will take a few years of relearning.
So, currently without Messi, our level is the 3rd or 4th place in La liga.
2. With Messi, we are 1st or 2nd in La liga.
But also, we won't win a CL.
Our team, Messi included, has too many holes for a CL level.

The only option is to wait for post-Messi era and rebuild from zero.
Then we will win a Cl here and there once in 10 years.

Regarding Messi, imo, in upcoming Months, even his attacking input will decline a lot and he will suffer CR7's faith.
He will still be able to assist, finish and score.
But his pace, stamina, dribbles will disappear.

They won't disappear completely.
But they will be miles away from a Goat level.

Sadly, a day will come very soon when we will start to debate whether Messi should be a starter or not in the next game.
And whether his remaining skills are outweighing more and more flaws in his game.

The same what Busi, Suarez, Pique are going through.

 

[Andresito]

Dunno if we got the dough but

Sancho-Fati-Demb
.........Messi
.....dej.........Art
jr...Todi...Top..sem

Or

Ansu-Messi-Demb
.......Havertz

Would cast terror in any team and take their blood to absolute zero.

Whole team would be in the FIFA Best 11 lol

Who's "Top" my dude?

 

[Kul_z]

Dunno if we got the dough but

Sancho-Fati-Demb
.........Messi
.....dej.........Art
jr...Todi...Top..sem

Or

Ansu-Messi-Demb
.......Havertz

Would cast terror in any team and take their blood to absolute zero.

Whole team would be in the FIFA Best 11 lol

Arthur de jong
Dembele griez fati
Messi

...

Not happening

 

[te amo barca]

We can have an Arthur - De Jong - Puig/Roberto midfield and Messi will still drop for the ball. He did it when we had Xavi and Iniesta, why won't he do it with Arthur and De Jong? That is his style of play at this point of his career. He likes to drop to the defensive midfielder position, likes to be involved in the game as much as possible. The problem is that he is even less dedicated now in half of La Liga games, but we still win thanks to his brilliance.

That's my prediction, at least. If EV has any guts to play Arthur and De Jong together, we will see whether that will be true this season.

Of course we would look better with a manager who specializes in positional play, but with EV it is what it is.

I posted this back in August. As we now see, Messi is doing the same things because EV is letting him do that.

 

[khaled_a_d]

There are 2 ways we can solve the issue of Messi's workrate:

1. Bench Messi.

2. Build a team that can cover for it. Which first of all means benching Suarez.

#1 will never happen nor should it, at least for the next season or 2. So we need a coach who will make #2 happen.

In both cases we are creating an issue.
It is about understanding that now, there is a limitation in the squad with Messi playing.
Messi had an interview prior to 2018 WC, he basically said he doesn't want to rest, he does want a number 9 in front of him it makes things easy for him.
Messi now is one of 2 things:
A-Playmaker, which means he plays deeply. That means there should be a 9 in front of him who can connect with him.
That makes the midfield cover for him. And it affects midfield.
B-Second striker, which again means he need a striker in front of him, since he moves between the lines and that makes him better with a striker who takes the CBs and who can connect with him especially with his back to the goal. As bad as Suarez he can do both better than anyone in the team.
So even if we bench Suarez, we will still suffer from same limitations.

 

[serghei]

Even if is the most lazy player of the team, he has so many qualities, he is so an extraordinary/fantastic/unique/goat player, that he compensates 10000% for this lack of him.

Did he score hattricks away vs top teams like Juve, Atletico 2 times, Liverpool, Roma? 0 goals, 0 assists in those games. So, in these infamous defeats, the reality is that his lack of movement and effort hurt the team much more than his genius helped it.

Considering we scored 0 ZERO goals and received buckets.

Messi hasn't made a real difference away from home in CL in the big games in ages.

Why? Because his movement is shit, positioning is crap and his leader qualities are missing. Talent without work and hunger to win can only take you so far. That is what's wrong with Messi. Add to that an incompetent clown of a manager who doesn't do anything to fix things, some has beens in a few positions and you have the full picture of our disastruous performances away in CL.

 

[KingLeo10]

It's pure insanity why he choses to drop to the midfield when he was so deadly in the 2nd half v Inter by cutting in from the wings.

It's like he relishes the prospect of being shut out centrally in CL games where opponents put in 100% effort. Only reason this flies in Liga is because teams are lower quality and don't give it their all.

 

[snowy]

Ouf! Me soooo stooooopid!

On the pic Seitan comments, it seems like an obvious pass but looking at the actual footage, it all happens so fast! Like less than a fraction of a second. Demb is just too damn quick for his own good

Leo I'm soooooo sorrrry I doubted youuuuuu bouhouuuu But at the same time, I'm happy I was wrong

Who's "Top" my dude?

Oh i was thinking whichever top mod we can sign... could be konate, diop or this guy

but he might too sexy for Camp Nou haha

 

[KingLeo10]

Did he score hattricks away vs top teams like Juve, Atletico 2 times, Liverpool, Roma? 0 goals, 0 assists in those games. So, in these infamous defeats, the reality is that his lack of movement and effort hurt the team much more than his genius helped it.

Considering we scored 0 ZERO goals and received buckets.

Messi hasn't made a real difference away from home in CL in the big games in ages.

Why? Because his movement is shit, positioning is crap and his leader qualities are missing. Talent without work and hunger to win can only take you so far. That is what's wrong with Messi. Add to that an incompetent clown of a manager who doesn't do anything to fix things, some has beens in a few positions and you have the full picture of our disastruous performances away in CL.

The team, Messi, included has only one way to score which works under the suffocating pressure of Camp Nou but not so much in hostile environments.

In the NFL, it doesn't matter how good your personnel are if they only have one means to dominate. Any competent opposing manager will neutralize that strength and the result is a first round elimination after stuffing the stat sheet all season (like we do in liga for the most part).

The successful teams/cup teams in CL have grit, motivation, and a varied arsenal. This is why CR7 has had more success than Messi in the competition. Messi's peak level in CL (2011, 2009, 2015) blows away CR7's peak performances but CR7 has put together goals against anyone in any stadium at any stage over like a decade now.

I'm NOT blaming Messi as the root cause of our problems. The biggest piece of shit is still EV by a landslide. I'm just saying his tactical inflexibility (dude basically decides when he wants to play what role) and his status as the leader of the club de amigos is severely hampering us in Europe.


In very short terms, we are basically the carcass that Bayern was in Europe last year. They've made some progress after getting rid of Robben, Ribery, benching Muller etc. We should do the same with the old has beens. And get a manager who convinces Messi to play to a plan or tell him to gtfo as well.

 

[xXKonan]

The away CL performance vs Atletico in 2016 was the most I've ever been angry with him.

He just stood in a small patch of area in the center for most of the match and didn't want to move or press much but wanted the ball. And to no surprise, we end up losing the match.

 

[KingLeo10]

The away CL performance vs Atletico in 2016 was the most I've ever been angry with him.

He just stood in a small patch of area in the center for most of the match and didn't want to move or press much but wanted the ball. And to no surprise, we end up losing the match.

That was a golden opportunity to retain the CL while MSN was still scary and Rakitic Busquets were not finished. Unbelieveable Messi and Ney (who became obsessed with dribbling from the center of the pitch) passed up an opportunity to retain the CL (treble) and instead kickstarted RM's CL dynasty...fucking lol

 

[serghei]

There are other performances not far from that. Juve, PSG away in 2017, Roma in 2018. Quite a few. He's not good enough anymore to be a difference maker away in the big CL games, due to the known defficiencies in his game. Like Suarez a bit but not quite as bad.

We have to accept that and try to do what we can in these conditions.

 

[KingLeo10]

There are other performances not far from that. Juve, PSG away in 2017, Roma in 2018. Quite a few. He's not good enough anymore to be a difference maker away in the big CL games, due to the known defficiencies in his game. Like Suarez a bit but not quite as bad.

We have to accept that and try to do what we can in these conditions.

Pep or Klopp would still win the CL with this version of Messi. We just need someone who isn't a COMPLETE and UTTER cuck like EV to the veterans.

Griez centrally, Messi on the wing, Dembele/Fati on the left. FDJ, Arthur, Vidal midfield.

 

[serghei]

Pep or Klopp would still win the CL with this version of Messi. We just need someone who isn't a COMPLETE and UTTER cuck like EV to the veterans.

Griez centrally, Messi on the wing, Dembele/Fati on the left. FDJ, Arthur, Vidal midfield.

Pep and Klopp are the single most influential figures in football at the moment. Only they could win the CL with this Barcelona. They would drop Suarez and minimize the off the ball issues of Messi and would make Messi give more.