Lionel Messi - v7

[serghei]

Don't agree with this. He has been poor for his usual standards since the 2nd half of last season and so far this season, but we wouldn't have won anything without Messi in 17/18 and 18/19. We won a double and were very close to a treble those 2 seasons.

You mean those seasons where Madrid were incredibly crap and spent most of their time on 3rd and 4th places? I don't know about that. Usually, if Madrid are mega-crap, Barca are favorite for the title, because La Liga is still a duopoly.

That's not to say Messi wasn't great in 2018-2019.

Yeah true. The signings were horrendous. We messed up 450million on Coutinho, Dembele and Griezmann.. unacceptable. Imagine that sort of money and that's the end result? It can't be worse basically

Yet.. I think Hazard/Coutinho signing confirms, is any player worth hundred mil? There's never guarantee! No matter how proven they are. One of the best players in PL for years, yet only struggle with Spanish teams.

I think only Haland is worth 150m. Nobody else. Not even Mbappe. Too bad we weren't smart enough to keep those 222m from Neymar deal.

 

[Batistuta9]

You mean those seasons where Madrid were incredibly crap and spent most of their time on 3rd and 4th places? I don't know about that. Usually, if Madrid are mega-crap, Barca are favorite for the title, because La Liga is still a duopoly.

That's not to say Messi wasn't great in 2018-2019.

Yes, he was excellent both seasons. Real won the CL in 17/18 so they weren't useless. The only problem was, we were almost perfect in the league that year. We could have gone the season unbeaten. The team under valverde was so Messi dependant, take him out and we probably lose the league. He won golden boot and got IFFHS playmaker of the year both seasons as well.

 

[ItachiXXX]

Let's not forget that Barca trashed Madrid 5 - 1 in October 2018 without Messi, I don't see how people still think playing or bending to suit a 33 year old Messi is the best way right now (unfortunately we can't just bench Messi due to respect, he's even the highest-paid by a mad margin)

Let's not forget it's Valverde and Suarez with his Amigos leading the pact. The most hated people in this forum win you games without Messi

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

You mean those seasons where Madrid were incredibly crap and spent most of their time on 3rd and 4th places? I don't know about that. Usually, if Madrid are mega-crap, Barca are favorite for the title, because La Liga is still a duopoly.

That's not to say Messi wasn't great in 2018-2019.



I think only Haland is worth 150m. Nobody else. Not even Mbappe. Too bad we weren't smart enough to keep those 222m from Neymar deal.

Yeah and when I hear these sums for Sancho. Damn. I think United will make same mistake.

 

[Birdy]

Fully agree with our guy BBZ here. If there is one thing we've always agreed on, it is about Messi's issues like central positioning, lack of workrate and and eagerness to be involved at all costs since about 2016-17 .

+1
If BBZ is right about one thing, it's about Messi's decline.

17/18, and 18/19 were the last glimpses of his former self. Already since last season he has become a huge burden. Problems were there since many years, but now you see only the problems.

Someone said above we cannot bench him out of respect.
But that's the only way to move on. There has to be the first guy to do it and from then on, things will take their way.

 

[feggydinho]

+1
If BBZ is right about one thing, it's about Messi's decline.

17/18, and 18/19 were the last glimpses of his former self. Already since last season he has become a huge burden. Problems were there since many years, but now you see only the problems.

Someone said above we cannot bench him out of respect.
But that's the only way to move on. There has to be the first guy to do it and from then on, things will take their way.

No one would want to stand up to be the first to sub Messi, since they'll receive hates from so many directions (the Truth is Messi is more of a god figure to many barca/messi fans - You'll notice that all the coaches apart from Guardiola have been blamed for not knowing how to fit Messi, and it's funny how one sided the blame game has been before). Messi tends to always play how he wants and it has really worked for a long time until age caught up with him and we now see it affecting the team chemistry sometimes. The challenge now should be that no one has the balls or power to talk or bench him if needed for the team (probably because of his status).

 

[Richard.H]

One big thing that's not being really mentioned either is that the game has changed even since our treble season. There is a lot more emphasis on physicality, pressing, counter attacks, and running like madmen. Basically everything that embodies Klopp football.

Keep in mind, Even prime Barca struggled vs extremely physical sides (Inter 2010, Chelsea 2012, ATM 2014/2016). You really cannot expect Messi to be so physical anymore at his age. He is understandably losing some of his quickness/sharpness on dribbles and passes too. Also, our team and what signifies Barca football is essentially opposite of this type of playing style. The most recent physical side that won us major trophies was the 2005/2006 season with Van Bommel and Edmilson in the mid.

 

[serghei]

One big thing that's not being really mentioned either is that the game has changed even since our treble season. There is a lot more emphasis on physicality, pressing, counter attacks, and running like madmen. Basically everything that embodies Klopp football.

Keep in mind, Even prime Barca struggled vs extremely physical sides (Inter 2010, Chelsea 2012, ATM 2014/2016). You really cannot expect Messi to be so physical anymore at his age. He is understandably losing some of his quickness/sharpness on dribbles and passes too. Also, our team and what signifies Barca football is essentially opposite of this type of playing style. The most recent physical side that won us major trophies was the 2005/2006 season with Van Bommel and Edmilson in the mid.

Don't think the game is more physical now. Fergie's United, Mou's Madrid, Inter, Chelsea, those were beast teams. If anything, there's not a defensive team around of the level of that Chelsea or Inter. Nowhere near actually. Compare likes of Terry, Essien, Ashley Cole, Lucio, Carvalho or Zanetti, with Lodi, Trippier or Savic. Guys who are supposed to form the toughest defensive team around.

Solid attacking teams have it easy with the defenders of today imo.

 

[KingLeo10]

Don't think the game is more physical now. Fergie's United, Mou's Madrid, Inter, Chelsea, those were beast teams. If anything, there's not a defensive team around of the level of that Chelsea or Inter. Nowhere near actually. Compare likes of Terry, Ashley Cole, Lucio, Carvalho or Zanetti, with Lodi, Trippier or Savic Guys who are supposed to form the toughest defensive teams around.

This is one of the weaker eras of club football in a while. What people are claiming as the evolution of football post 2015 was there in the late 2000s and early 2010s as well.

I urge people to watch Klopp's Dortmund v Bayern in the German Cup final in 2012. Which Dortmund won 5-2, I believe. They were a half notch above even 18/19 Liverpool in terms of physical fitness and pressing.

I don't even need to mention who instituted the collective press to the highest level - Guardiola at Barca.

 

[serghei]

This is one of the weaker eras of club football in a while. What people are claiming as the evolution of football post 2015 was there in the late 2000s and early 2010s as well.

I urge people to watch Klopp's Dortmund v Bayern in the German Cup final in 2012. Which Dortmund won 5-2, I believe. They were a half notch above even 18/19 Liverpool in terms of physical fitness and pressing.

It is. So many top clubs are going through a bad patch. Barca, United, Madrid, Juventus, Chelsea, Milan, Inter. All are much weaker than 5-10 years ago. This year, CL is a quite possibly an affair in 2 between Liverpool and Bayern. Nobody comes even close.

 

[KingLeo10]

Also, Chelsea's and Man United's back 5 was considered one of the strongest in 00s club football.

We beat both en route to winning multiple CLs.

Even in 07/08, we gave probably the best United side ever all sorts of problems and only lost 0-1 over 180 mins to a Scholes wonder goal. So yes they gave us trouble but you can't just swat aside other giants 3-0 or something. We posted a better record v them than the other way around, all things considered.

 

[Morten]

It is. So many top clubs are going through a bad patch. Barca, United, Madrid, Juventus, Chelsea, Milan, Inter.

Just add on Bayern to that list(Liverpool is coming down already) and im down, lets all be mediocre together, Bayern spoiling the party at the moment.

 

[KingLeo10]

Bayern has a golden opportunity to tie or leapfrog Milan in CL trophies. I won't be able to stand their arrogance when it does happen.

It's also funny how BBZ (no hate) brings up "weak era" for Barca's CLs but doesn't mention anything about this for Pool or Bayern.

 

[serghei]

Bayern has a golden opportunity to tie or leapfrog Milan in CL trophies. I won't be able to stand their arrogance when it does happen.

It's also funny how BBZ (no hate) brings up "weak era" for Barca's CLs but doesn't mention anything about this for Pool or Bayern.

That weak era for Barca's CLs is such a wrong argument . So many legends in the game at that time.

Just look at this collection of fullbacks circa 2009-2011.

Eric Abidal, Dani Alves, Sergio Ramos, Javier Zanetti, Ashley Cole, Maicon, Phillip Lahm, Marcelo.

 

[Jallo]

+1
If BBZ is right about one thing, it's about Messi's decline.

17/18, and 18/19 were the last glimpses of his former self. Already since last season he has become a huge burden. Problems were there since many years, but now you see only the problems.

Someone said above we cannot bench him out of respect.
But that's the only way to move on. There has to be the first guy to do it and from then on, things will take their way.

As i remember Messi recognized this and wanted to leave the club.