Lionel Messi - v7

Centauri B

New member
Anyone doubting the obvious fact that Messi is a player simply unmatched and unrivaled in the history of world football, is plainly and clearly clueless about football and is automatically disqualified by any football-related conversation.

The end.
 

raskolnikov

Well-known member
difference between alien Messi and current Messi:

alien: take away goals and assists, just watch him. You would still think he is an alien
Current Messi: Take away goals and assists: not oo muc magic left, but still top class
How come? If so yesterday aint a good example of that. He played extremely good. Especially if you take in mind lack of preseason and injuries. Just we have seen him reach higher levels doesnt mean it wasnt a performance that would have been match of the season for any other player. We just hold messi to different standards.
 

serghei

Senior Member
I need to actually thank Serghei, te amo Barca, Tekkers and the anti-Messi mob for enlightening us this week. They are right.

Who cares that Messi scores an amazing 30 yard fk.

Who cares he 'dropped deep' and played a beautiful assist to Vidal.

Who cares about his amazing nutmeg on Plano and his beautiful nutmeg pass.

Who cares about his clear chance created for Fati.

Who cares about his mesmeric dribble at the end.

Who cares about his sublime 2nd goal.

Who cares about his inch perfect assist for Suarez.

Our Ronaldo can do all this in his sleep

Who cares without Messi's input we score one own goal rather than 5.

Who cares without Messi we draw the game 1 1 and drop 2 pts. Since when was winning games important anyway?

Who cares that Barca were and are shit without Messi?

Who cares that since Messi came back he scored 5 goals and we won all 4 games?

I would give all the above up in an instant if the 32 year old Messi pressed the Vallidolid left back and tracked back to help Semedo.

UNTIL HE WASTES HIS ENERGY PRESSING AND RUNS 10KM IN A GAME THE DWARF IS DEAD TO ME AND INFERIOR TO RONALDO.

Thanks for enlightening me guys. I'm now part of the superior intellect, radical, innovative anti Messi mob. And it feels great xxx.

Lol.

Yup that's it, back to downplaying everything he does. Your only praise for his performance was he looked 'sharp'. If it's 'only Vallidolid' where are all the other players in the world producing these kind of performances? In any league? Maybe in history?


Give me a better individual performance anywhere in any league this season? And please don't say Ronaldo vs Holland in the nation's league.

Dude, you have serious comprehension issues. I lost count how many times I've praised Messi for his amazing and consistent performances in La Liga. Must be hundreds of comments.

Make a distinction between a home game vs Valladolid and intense away games in CL vs serious teams where he has to run more. The difference is night and day. It's not downplaying anything, it's called being realistic.

There are 3 types of Messi 'fans' here. The ones who worship Messi 100% of the time, and are blind to everything he does wrong, the ones who praise Messi and also criticize him when it's the case, and the ones who don't bother to do either.

There are no 'Messi haters' or 'anti-Messi mob' or whatever you imagine. You only think that because you're part of the group of posters that worship Messi and have nothing critical to say about him ever, not even when he plays badly or doesn't try too hard.
 
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Lapi

Member
There are no 'Messi haters' or 'anti-Messi mob' or whatever you imagine. You only think that because you're part of the group of posters that worship Messi and have nothing critical to say about him ever, not even when he plays badly or doesn't try too hard.

Perhaps there are no de facto Messi haters here, just yet, but you won't deny that there are haters, regardless whom they actually pick, and even an average performance by Messi gives a good reason and opportunity to start an ill discussion about his "problems".

Criticizing Messi would be objective and worthwhile, if he was the actual problem of the declining stylistic aspect of the team, but he is not.

If you distinguish 3 types of Messi fans here, it wouldn't also hurt to distinguish the similarly minimum 3 types of haters.
Haters, who love to hate for the sake of hatred, haters who always hate certain types of players, and the cowards, who don't even say anything unless they have something negative to share.

Criticism is worthless and often a bit exhibitionist, unless the criticism is constructive.
Though constructive criticism is never easy, you may do that but it's actually unfair. It is not yet time to criticize Messi. When the time comes and he declines further, you can be sure to see and read the carrion waves, disguised as criticism, so it's best to wait a bit until it really becomes apposite.

The negative part, that you can see above in this thread, is not constructive criticism.
The notion: 'not even when he plays badly or doesn't try too hard' is also misguiding as a reason.
Messi has done enough for this team to be a rightly merited exception, at least to the VULGAR criticism.
For other types of criticisms, it's much better to turn to the direction of Valverde.
Neither Messi, nor anyone else in the present team is individually culpable as much as the system-less coach has been.

Do not descend to the trap of the easiness of criticizing players, while it is harder to argue against an entire tactical system.
 

Respekt_III

Anti-everything
How can any criticism be considered genuinely constructive if it isn't directly being relayed to the people who can take on that criticism for change? lol
By extension any discussion on a forum is ultimately worthless...

Its pretty obvious that a majority of posters on this forum feel as though its heresy to criticize messi in any way shape or form, they'd rather bury their heads in the sand then admit that the greatest player ever still has his flaws.

however as you alluded to, a few posters may fail to understand or choose to ignore that the tactical issues are not solely the fault of messi; the majority of the fault lies with the incompetent management and board. A good manager would devise a system and choose the correct players to exploit Messi's strengths while tactically minimizing his weaknesses.
 
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Lol.



Dude, you have serious comprehension issues. I lost count how many times I've praised Messi for his amazing and consistent performances in La Liga. Must be hundreds of comments.

Make a distinction between a home game vs Valladolid and intense away games in CL vs serious teams where he has to run more. The difference is night and day. It's not downplaying anything, it's called being realistic.

There are 3 types of Messi 'fans' here. The ones who worship Messi 100% of the time, and are blind to everything he does wrong, the ones who praise Messi and also criticize him when it's the case, and the ones who don't bother to do either.

There are no 'Messi haters' or 'anti-Messi mob' or whatever you imagine. You only think that because you're part of the group of posters that worship Messi and have nothing critical to say about him ever, not even when he plays badly or doesn't try too hard.

First off I take offense to the lie that I don't criticise Messi and 'worship' him. I worship no man. And I criticise Messi when he deserves it as I did numerous times during the Copa. I'll do it again now if you like. Bar the game vs Brazil he was poor at the Copa. Also, his comments against Brazil were ill judged to say the least.

I'm surprised you had the balls to reply after you enlightened us all week about how Messi was the problem and the problems you highlighted were so clearly exposed yesterday.

You said him dropping back to midfield is destroying the team. Then he goes and drops back to create the go ahead goal for Vidal within 30 minutes. Glad EV didn't listen to your advice.

You also said he needs to run more wasting energy pressing. At least 10km a game for a 32 year old. You keep saying your favourite manager Pep would demand it if him. Pep yesterday said and I quote "Right now, you need to ask Messi to make short bursts of effort. He can't run for the sake of running, no way". So Pep agrees with us 'Messi worshippers' that he should do what he is doing, running in short bursts. Is Pep wrong also and if so why do you eulogize him?

You say there's no anti Messi mob yet the above proves different. Focusing and spending your time moaning about a 32 year old not running 10km a match when there are literally 100 bigger problems about the team you could be moaning about also proves different. Especially when you have Ronaldinho in your avatar, he barely walked at 32 let alone ran. You said his goal away vs Chelsea was a 'tap in and expect people to take you genuinely?

The fact is there are numerous people here who are loyal to Messi for all he has given us. For me he saved me 30 grand when he scored vs Iran. He entertains me like no other footballer can and he has done it for a club I love. He's singlehandedly kept that club competitive. That means a lot. To degrade that as 'worshipping' is embarrassing and weak. It's called LOYALTY. If all that is worth fuck all to you and you would rather nit pick on his work rate 24/7 ( which is nothing new btw) then don't get upset when people highlight that. I'm not the only one who sees the agenda so we can't all be wrong.
 

Messigician

Senior Member
Barça’s '10' accumulates merits and numbers that convert him as favorite to lift his 6th Ballon d’Or [md]

The Golden Boot surpasses Ronaldo’s and Van Dijk's impact[md]

Favorite for the Ballon d’Or: Messi’s great game against Valldolid sets him up for his 6th trophy for best player [sport]
 

Tackle

Senior Member
Barça’s '10' accumulates merits and numbers that convert him as favorite to lift his 6th Ballon d’Or [md]

The Golden Boot surpasses Ronaldo’s and Van Dijk's impact[md]

Favorite for the Ballon d’Or: Messi’s great game against Valldolid sets him up for his 6th trophy for best player [sport]

Still isn't the favourite.

This is simply the Barcelona press trying to give Messi some good PR for a few more Ballon D'or votes.

Unfortunately they are incredibly inept compared to the Madrid and CR7 media machine.

Messi winning the Balon D'or is your new "relax, Neymar is coming" act.
 

LMTR14

Member
36 at this rate, I would not put my money on it but its possible.
He would like to play the wc in 2022 in december then continues to finish the season and possibly retire.
If he keeps up the 7+ goals a season average from freekicks...

he should take a leaf out of roger federer's book, who has won everything (and also has kids) but still recently said he wants to play til age 40 (and so still has a decent shot at the record for most tournament wins). now that is the attitude I want to see from messi too. as long as you're an athlete, give it your all. and if you have a chance at setting records and pushing humankind's limits further, give it your all likewise.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Exactly. Legendary players like Zidane, Maradona, R9 etc have a handful of these type of performances.. no one complains about the level of opponent and when you watch their career highlight videos you see the same clips again and again which usually make up about 10 minute videos. Messi has literally hundreds of unbelievable games and highlights, when his career is over his highlight reel will be multiple hours.

I think that Messi is better than them.
But this remark about videos is related to the era of television back then.

When Maradona played in 80s and 90s, you couldn't watch all of his matches (iirc) on a tv.
There was no internet, there was no pay per view channels.
So, you could have gone to a stadium, listen to a match on radio or watch a 30 seconds clip of 2:0 goals in the evening news.

Now, if you wanted to make a 20 minutes clip of Maradona's season, you would have to go to a local Tv station and ask for videotapes.
The only other option was to manually record a few matches shown on a tv back then mixed with 10 seconds clips of goals shown on an evening news. Or use videos from documentaries about him, which again used the same World cup videos and some most goals from Napoli.

Today, you have streams of every single league, cup, NT and a friendly match.
You even have videos of training sessions.
Today, it is quite easy to collect goals and dribbles of any player in the world, unlike in 80s or 90s.

For example, any fan could today create a 60 minutes video of dribbles, passes and moves from Riki Puig who is 20 and plays for Barca B.
Now try to make a one hour video of Maradona or Crujff.
Guess what, 80-90% of clips will be from matches from World cup since those are the only matches shown on a Tv for a wider audience, more or less, plus CL semis and finals.

Does that mean that Riki is doing more wonders week in, week out than Maradona and Crujff?

Also, another thing to consider is that in 70s, 80s or 90s, we didn't have super rich world and super rich clubs.

Let's say that Barca and Real had 2 millions to spend.
And other teams had half a million or a million.

While today, Barca can spend let's say 500m and weak La Liga teams can spend 10-30m.

So, you see, 30-40 years ago, big teams were only 2-3-4 times richer than their opponents.
While today it is closer to being 10-20 times richer.
That also means that current big teams like Barca, City, Psg, Bayern are often able to demolish their league opponents with 6:1, 7:1, 9:0 or 11:1.
Those big teams have turned their leagues into a one horse race and all of them are padding stats with an insane number of goals, assists, all sorts of domination and records.
Which almost never happened in 90s when the results were mostly 1:0, 2:0 and 2:1.

People often say: Messi can't play with a donkey midfield.
Now imagine with which kind of donkeys Maradona had to play at Napoli or at a World cup 1986.

Messi is the best, but it is hard to compare the eras.
If someone like Cr7 is getting so much hype today and if he is scoring way more goals than all other strikers from the past, you really have to wonder:
Are the current players THAT good or there are 100s of factors which have changed in football?

If you look at the number of goals by Cr7, his league goals, NT titles, hype, Ballon D Ors, it looks as if he is the best or the second best ever.
He looks better than Ronaldinho, R9, Maradona, Crujff, Henry.
Not to mention tons of players from the past whom we don't know too well.

The numbers from the current era says that he is top2 of all time.
While in reality, he is surely not in Top5 players of all time.
Maybe even not in Top10.
 
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snowy

Well-known member
..

Messi is the best, but it is hard to compare the eras.
If someone like Cr7 is getting so much hype today and if he is scoring way more goals than all other strikers from the past, you really have to wonder:
Are the current players THAT good or there are 100s of factors which have changed in football? ..
The numbers from the current era says that he is top2 of all time.
While in reality, he is surely not in Top5 players of all time.
Maybe even not in Top10.

Datz Watz Up _ BBZ calling it with the 3rd eye

Takes big hairy cojones to say that here on CR Central :lol:

head's up!!!! wots there's a bounty out. Best watch ur seis caballero +




[MENTION=13483]rixxer[/MENTION] crawb up ;) tek article!

For Messi never really walks; he prowls. :cool:
 
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Vilarrubi

New member
I think that Messi is better than them.
But this remark about videos is related to the era of television back then.

When Maradona played in 80s and 90s, you couldn't watch all of his matches (iirc) on a tv.
There was no internet, there was no pay per view channels.
So, you could have gone to a stadium, listen to a match on radio or watch a 30 seconds clip of 2:0 goals in the evening news.

Now, if you wanted to make a 20 minutes clip of Maradona's season, you would have to go to a local Tv station and ask for videotapes.
The only other option was to manually record a few matches shown on a tv back then mixed with 10 seconds clips of goals shown on an evening news. Or use videos from documentaries about him, which again used the same World cup videos and some most goals from Napoli.

Disagree here, televised football has been massive since the 70s/80s. Man... even here in the UK we had Italian football from early 90s on "Football Italia"

I'd argue that if a player has done something special on the pitch, the footage will surface, regardless of era. There was some exaggeration on my part saying that they can be condensed into 10 minute videos. But take this video for example, this guy is obviously a big Napoli fan and has managed to put Maradona's 7 year Napoli career in a 29 minute video. Will there be stuff missing? Of course.. but imagine trying to fit 7 year's of Messi's Barca career in a 29 minute video.

[youtube]pBCBGWXiRGI[/youtube]

Riqui Puig comparison is a stretch. For a start I doubt you could find 20 minute's of highlights from his career, remember a highlight could only be a 10 second clip and we're comparing a B team player to players who were in Europe's top leagues in their era.
 
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Lapi

Member
Messi is the best, but it is hard to compare the eras.

This is an exceptionally true sentence.
Football experts and historians often say the game changes every 7 years or so, so much, that comparisons are almost meaningless.

Pele only played at WCs on the international scene and 50 years ago a result of 8:6 wasn't very seldom.
How could one compare these areas? It's impossible and meaningless.
 

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