KingLeo10
Senior Member
For his standards, he worked his ass off in 18/19. You gotta stop with these false narratives dawg. He's been atrocious in latter half of 19/20 and 20/21 so far...
Lionel Messi - v7
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
For his standards, he worked his ass off in 18/19. You gotta stop with these false narratives dawg. He's been atrocious in latter half of 19/20 and 20/21 so far...
BarcaOG
Banned
Okay, i'll give you that. he was very very good 18/19--he won that league by himself (and despite EV). even if he scored 2 against liverpool tho, CL KOs are 2 game affairs for a reason. you have to get the better of your opponent in two games. messi put his head down at anfield and walked. people often say that when messi 'decides' to do something in a game, he does it (countless youtube videos with this title). but in the CL 18/19 he was overall as ineffective as ever, since 2015, when it comes to KOs.
other than that game tho, he was crazy good in 18-19. totally deserved bdor. but yes, this season and last and 17-18 and well after 15, specially in the CL, hes been crap. and walked and walked and walked with his head down.
Lack of motivation. He's been unhappy for about 2 years.
If you go out on the pitch unhappy and unmotivated, you're not going to put in the effort to win matches. You can tell he's forcing a lot of his passes and dribbles. He's definitely not playing his natural game, and that's because he simply doesn't trust his teammates. He basically said his teammates haven't been good enough for the past 2 years 3 months ago.
It's no coincidence that this is his worst season for us. If you're not focused, lacking motivation, unhappy and not trusting your teammates, you're not going to play your best game. I knew this would happen back when Bartomen wouldn't let him go. We all knew we should have let him go and started our rebuild from September. Could have got a potential couple of players in exchange, money and his salary off the books. Now.... we're faced with the possibility of losing him for nothing in June. We probably should sell him in January and start our rebuild from then. But we all know that isn't going to happen. These future presidents are hellbent on keeping Messi and making him the future of the club.... even though he's nearly 34. Doesn't make any sense. And the things is... they'll still offer him around 750k a week.
*DeSpItE eV
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
I wonder how a 3-0 lead against a crippled Liverpool turned into a "decisive" game.
Clearly had nothing to do with the players shitting the bed and Ernesto " I squat my own weight" Valverde doing fuck all from the sidelines. Yes, Messi was obviously not as good as in the first leg , but he had done more than enough in the first leg that should have seen Barca through to the final.
You have plenty of opportunities to shit on the current Messi and rightfully , yet you decide to do it for one his best season of the past 5 years.
At this rate I will give you 2 years before you start arguing here how Messi was a top 3 player in 14/15.
Ufff even after more than one year it still hurts
Ronaldinho saga was resolved when Pep took over. All we are asking is that Messi saga to be resolved asap as well, be it he leaves the club or he is placed as a sub. That does not take away from his achievements. It is a comparison between present and history; history books will document his achievements rightly so, but our concern is with the present
It is extremely weak to label someone as an extremist when he or she disagrees with your opinion.
I want the Messi situation solved also and again well aware his achievements still stand. I'm saying if attitude, respect for the club and commitment meant so much to someone as they have shown it means a lot in regards to Messi's last 9-12 months here then they wouldn't idolise Ronaldinho to the point he is their profile photo. Sure you'd be grateful for the amazing times he brought but ultimately if you were someone who valued respect and commitment as much as you say you do there would be a bad taste about how things ended. Not sure how much more I can spell it out.
To me it shows just an obvious dislike for one over the other. A bias which has been clear to see for months. There's tons of reasons to dislike current Messi and I have shared many of them sentiments, it's when those reasons become utterly ridiculous, when the sources arise from rags disguised as newspapers, when you ignore good things he does in order to focus on the negative (the game at anfield for one example).
serghei
Senior Member
Sure. Which is why the picture is not with him partying, but with him executing a great freekick in his prime. I don't disconsider what Messi did for this club just because I don't like him as a person.
Also, it's an avatar.
I didn't have Ronaldinho's face tattooed on my biceps.
Last edited:
THese narratives are tedious in the extreme. The Roma, Juve, Bayern, and Liverpool debacles - people are actually expecting him to playmake, score, hell win these games all by himself.
Go back and watch the games with a bit of objectivity and try to understand how football actually works IRL. You don't get the freedom to do what you want when the oposition team target you as the main man to shut down. If your team mates cant take teh few chances that you serve them when your opportunities are limited then why should teh opposition change tactics; they're succedding and your team is failing. You can't tear around the pitch chasing the ball down on your own You'll just be made to look the fool. They haven't pressed as a team in absolutely years so why should that change in one or two games. How is yelling at your team mates to get stuck in going to help either. These are elite athletes who know what their roles are and what they're mean to do (apparently as set out by a competent coach). Roy Keans type roraring ain't going to work!Simply put, Messi wasn't the problem on an indivisual level anyway. Players of his ability are not a problem. What has been the problem for Barcelona for many years now is their set-up - the recruitment and man-anagement, ergo the coaching. Anyone that has been following the sage for 10-15 yrs could see the deterioration as plain as the nose on your face. Is it really any wonder he wanted out. "Aye, lets get stuck into these Scouse bassas, c'mon lads!!" And with that Lionel jack-rabbits after Andy Robertson as he receives the ball from Allison, only for the Scot to calmly play it back inside to Virgil, who knocks it into Fabino.
laughably clueless.
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
Is it idolizing the present Ronaldinho or the historic Ronaldinho? That is really the core of the debate, we need to differentiate between both so that it is an apple to apple comparison as we are talking about the present Messi and not the historical one
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Delusion level: 20 000
Congratulations
Look:
1. Barto made mistakes
2. EV was questionable
3. A lot of our signings were questionable
4. A lot of our players were meh
5. But Messi was also a huge problem
In the end, in a CL, the only times he led a team was when our team was an absolute perfection.
I am not asking for him to lead Paulinho-Raki-Gomes trio to a CL title.
But was there ever a season when he managed to lead a so-so team to a CL glory?
We won ONLY when we were miles better than anyone else.
We never managed to scrape late wins and titles in Cr7, Germany or Italian style with late comebacks, 1:0 wins or winning when you were a weaker team.
Our CL titles are literally 3:0 wins against anyone or NOTHING (defeats).
In short:
1. When a team is good, Messi is happy and he lifts our team to another level
2. But when our team is not perfect, the first time when we concede a goal, Messi sulks, disapears and gives up.
When was the last time when Barca and Messi turned around a CL knockout rounds tie in the 2ndeg?
2013 0:2 to 4:0 vs Milan.
The only other case was Psg in 2017 where Messi was a non factor.
So, basically, for the last 7 years, this is Messi's and Barca's pattern in a CL:
1. If we are winning, fine
2. When things get tough, don't count on Messi
He didn't pull a single wonder goal or a solo action in key moments for the last 7 years.
Except in 2015, but then again: the whole team was flying back then and we were never 0:1 down in the 2nd leg (a sudden death second leg).
In every single KO match in the 2nd leg since Milan 2013, when the other team started to lead on aggreggate, we lost every single time.
2014 Atletico
2016 Atletico
2018 Roma
2019 Liverpool
2020 Bayern
I won't count Bayern 2013 and Juve 2017 because we were behind (and dead) from the first moment.
Again, I am not expecting him to save our asses every team.
But he didn't do it once since then iirc.
So, no, you can't blame everyone else but him.
If you are the best player ever, you need to save your team here and there in tough moments.
Yet, as Raki said on a World cup to a Croatian NT coach before a match vs Argentina: "all we need is to score the first goal. When Messi is losing 0:1 in a KO match, he is done. He will start to stare at some random spot, he will start to touch his beard all the time, he will lose confidence and he will look as if he is not there anymore.
Those things are not made up or pulled from someone's ass.
More or less this is Messi in the last few years in a nutshell.
When he is at Camp Nou and when things are working perfectly, he is unstoppable.
But when you are 0:1 in the 2nd leg, he freezes like Mats. Gone, done, MIA.
I wasn't talking about present day Ronaldinho. I cba to explain more.
Home of Barca Fans
