Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
I am a bit concerned about the lack of games for Messi before he starts the regular season. Probably only two games in the US for him in preseason. Will probably be quite rusty in the first several weeks.
Lionel Messi - v7
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
Mitchell1978
Senior Member
Yeah but you need at least 4 weeks off, so its needed imo.
FCB1987
Banned
He started last season fine with even less of a preseason
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
He is getting older, isn’t he?
Why is he not training with the team? ahh yes, because he has no competition and is a default starter thus no need to accelerate his return. Not sure if he will play against Arsenal but it sucks that the new team members cannot play preseason games with him given that he is the center of every decision being taken in the field. He is the one with the throne
The thing is it doesn’t affect him as much as it affects FDJ and Griezman. They need to adapt to playing with him being the center of their every decision
soul24rage
Senior Member
I see what you're saying but the Copa players are entitled to use the rest of their vacation days as much as they want. I believe they have to come back this weekend (correct me if I'm wrong).
And plus, he's very likely to play vs Napoli on Wednesday so one preseason game is not going to be the make or break for this season.
Never_Forget40
Banned
Messi's speech before the Joan Gamper match last season:
Wonder if we'll hear the same thing again
This time:
''Last season was really good as we did the La Liga but we all felt bad about how it went in the Champions League,'' Messi said. ''We promise that this season we will do all to avoid another beautiful humilation in our favourite humiliation competition.''
Never_Forget40
Banned
A cool myth, yeah.
You are neglecting a basics of a human psychology and an urge to survive and evolve/adapt no matter what is happening around you.
I will pull some numbers from my ass now (how some users love to say) to explain a rough idea.
Have you ever played some sport, or a video game or any competitive game in which you started as a better one and you played against someone who was a complete rookie?
For example, you are playing football on PES or FIFA.
And in the beginning, you are trashing your rookie friend with 10:0 per match.
You are scoring goals left and right.
You are scoring goals from perfectly executed actions but also from average ones too, since your opponent can't defend anything.
And then, after some time, he will learn some things and instead of 10:0 wins, the scores will slowly turn into 3:0 and 4:0 for you.
Now, let me ask you: has your level dropped in this case? No.
Has his level improved? Yes.
And yes, if you will execute PERFECTLY your moves, you will still usually win.
But he will learn how to stop your NOT SO PERFECT actions.
And regarding your perfect actions, he will learn how to prevent them, or=how to allow the lowest possible amount of your perfect actions.
And this example is only about a defending part.
Think about attacking: in early matches, he will never score against you, it will be 10:0 all the time.
In fact, he will have problems to even getting into your half with the ball.
Over time, he will BOTH lower the amount of goals conceded to 3-4 per match, plus he will slowly find way to score goals, MORE and MORE.
And from 10:0, matches will soon turn to 4:0, and later to 4:1, 4:2 or 3:2.
Now, if you were ever in a similar situation, what is your only chance as you are seeing him improving and closing a gap between you two?
= you will need to add some additional moves and ideas to your gameplan, on top of that classic gameplan which has been slowly neutralized.
Regarding football, have you ever played against superior opponents in football/basketball or any some sport, but where you had a chance to replay a game over and over in upcoming days and weeks?
For example, imagine if you play a 5 vs 5 football, and your opponents are overall stronger than you plus they have some superkid in a team.
In the first match, they will eat you alive and win 10:0.
Then, one week later, you will know: ok, that kid was too good, let's try to stop him.
Then you will put 2-3 players on that superkid, but then the rest of his teammates will have too much space and you will again lose 10:0.
Then, in one match you will try to go all out attack. You will lose 15:0. Ok, this is not a solution.
Then, you will start to play more defensive, to concede a lowest possible amount of goals.
If you have 5 vs 5 players, you will eventually figure out that the ONLY way to somewhat block the opponents is:
= to mark that superkid with 2 players, to mark all other players with 1 player.
And then, since they will always have 1 player unmarked, the best option is to NOT MARK their defender or the guy who is the least dangerous.
So, you can't mark ALL players and then you will make mathematical choices and play a risky game with not man marking their weakest player.
If he scores, oh well, that is the risk you had to make.
So, in this example from above, our matches will start with 10:0.
After a few weeks/Months, matches will be closer to 3:0 or 4:0.
And of course, my team will also figure out some patterns how to actually score a goal or two against these superkids.
Now, you see, BOTH in a videogame example and in this 5vs5 footy matches, no matter how perfect are you actions, OVER TIME an opponent (unless if an opponent is not interested in evolving, like Barcaforum too often), the matches will be tighter and tighter over time.
Now, go back to Barca from 2008-2011.
Again, in early days:
1. teams were naive and surprised. They didn't know what formation to play, how to defend.
They were running around like crazy around our guys and we were playing rondos.
Eventually, one manager figured out that the best way is to park a two lines of 4 players around their box because it will MINIMIZE the efficiency of our play.
It won't stop us completely, but it will be way harder for us to break them than those early naive formations in 2009 and 2010.
2. further, teams figured out that we aren't crossing and that we are more dangerous in the middle (Xavi-Iniesta-Messi) than on flanks.
And since you can't defend BOTH a middle around the box and flanks, the opponents figured out that the best option in terms of probabilities is to: crowd the middle around the box and leave the flanks exposed.
If we score or create trough flanks=oh, well.. they needed to make that risk.
3. further, when we would lose the ball, we had that rule (7 seconds iirc?) where we would be attacking like crazy to get the ball back.
Teams didn't know that in early days and we were taking the ball easily in those years and just scoring from counters (after regaining possession) for fun...
Eventually, the opponents figured out that, for example, that they need to survive only for the first 5-6-7 seconds and play 2-3 back passes or switch sides to an opponent flank, because Barca will give up then.
So, in the early days: they didn't know what to do when they would get the ball.
Later they knew: you just need to avoid losing the ball in the first 7 seconds.
And even worse: they found out ways how to ruin our formation (since our players were interchanging positions while trying to get back the possession).
So, after 3-4 years, they found patterns how to get our RB/LB or a pivot our of his position, and then to hit a deadly counter through that position which will be empty or where a forward or a CM will play against a RB/LB/pivot who had to leave his position.
So, these are just 3 small examples how every team could have lowered our efficiency.
In 2009 or 2010=everything worked.
Perfect actions.
Average actions.
Even some sloppy actions.
Overt time, the opponents improved and figured out our patterns.
And then, if we wanted to score, we needed only perfect actions.
Average actions weren't good enough anymore.
Further, if my theory is not true...
Then WHY did Crujff said that they needed to make changes after 3 years because the opponents have figured us out?
Why did Pep start to make changes in the 4th season?
Basically, when I am reading posts like yours and for 100s users with the same idea how 2008-2011 is some godlike football which was and STILL IS impossible to stop, then I am imagining our coaches:
Pep: 2008: We will play TikiTaka.
= we won La Liga and a CL
Before a 2nd season, in Pep's head=we will continue with the same tactics.
= we won La Liga again
Before a 3rd season, in Pep's head=we will continue with the same tactics.
= we won La Liga and a CL again
Before a 4th season, in Pep's head=you know what guys? I am bored of winning... Let's abandon our original ideas and try to play slightly differently? I am tired of winning
So, Pep started to change things and we lost BOTH La Liga and a CL.
Then Tito came and he copied Pep.
He won La Liga.
Then Tata came. And in his head, you had 2 options:
1) we can play with Pep's winning style which won 4 La Ligas in 5 years
2) OR, we can try something new, since the last time when we tried something new, in Pep's 4th season=we lost La Liga.
And then, Tata the idiot, picked: let's try something new. I am tired of our system which is too good. Let's rather play some shitty football.
And we lost La Liga and a CL again.
Then Lucho came. In his head:
1) we can go back to Pep's football, which won 4 La Ligas in 5 years.
2) or play some shitty football with new ideas, where we lost 2 la ligas in 2 attempts
And a stupid guy Lucho ALSO picked some new version of our football, with less possession.
Then Retardo came.
He again had a simple choice:
1) go back to a proven style, a style which can't be figured out and beaten, and a style which will bring trophies until the end of universe if executed properly
2) or you can play a shitty Earnieball
And Ernie, as all other idiot managers picked: I don't want to play with cheating codes and win titles. I want to play a shitty football.
I mean guys, in which kind of a bubble are you living, when you think that several coaches in a row are all idiots and instead of a godlike system which can work in EVERY YEAR till the end of a time, they are picking some shitty tactics?
Do I even need to ask for the 1000th time:
If that system wasn't figured out after 2012, then why Spain can't win anything anymore?
Should I even dare to mention a Father Pep himself who has 6 CL failures without Messi?
My point is:
1. even if our system was perfect in 2008-2011, over time teams will get closer and closer, that is always happening in nature. Adapt or die (Barca fans are picking: a die option, lol)
2. in terms of how good our system was, it is hard to tell whether a system itself was THAT GOOD, or it was only very good, but aliens like Messi, Xavi and Iniesta elevated it to a Goat levels.
And without them, you just have a very good system, nothing more.
Anyway, my opinion is that even if executed perfectly with 11 Frenkies on a field, that system in 2020 would be let's say 70% efficient as in 2011 because the teams have evolved.
So, copying the exact system from 2011 is a bad idea. We will get a weak version of something that stopped working even 8 years ago.
The only way to improve is: to go back to Pep's idea, BUT to improve them with some new things from 2020.
This is why I have said: mix Pep from 2011' and Klopp from 2019.
Pep 2011&Klopp 2019 mix is a way stronger for 2020 than Pep's style from 2011 alone.
I am not saying that Ernieball is the answer, lol.
But, Ernie at last tried something new... and failed.
For me, trying something new and failing is way better than living in a bubble and believing that a time has stopped for Pep's 2008-2011 football and how nothing can stop it IF executed properly, lol.
So romantic...
I wonder how many letters you already used at writing on this forum. One Post from you is as big as 6-7 Posts from other user.
Pedro
La Masia
I wonder how many letters you already used at writing on this forum. One Post from you is as big as 6-7 Posts from other user.
BBZ is the Einstein of this forum
Mitchell1978
Senior Member
calling BBZ's verbal diarrhea "Einstein" is insulting to Einstein
FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
Messi especially put more effort to CL. He rested well and performed amazing. Can't blame him.
Do you wonder why many world best athletes tend to pray when they achieve something .. it is because the human mind has a lot of untapped potentials yet we find ways to limit ourselves; believing in some power beyond this world can unlock these limitations we place (it is psychological). That is the role of a fucking good manager, motivate his players and unlock their mental blocks. Bring a great manager and you will see this team we have transform into something much greater
KingLeo10
Senior Member
noteworthy that only undercover trolls like [MENTION=21723]Pedro[/MENTION] and [MENTION=23955]Never_Forget40[/MENTION] (aka [MENTION=22584]messi15478[/MENTION]) cater to BBZ.
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