Lionel Messi - v7

Laplacian

Senior Member
I was referring only to Messi's case. I agree that all other players must press.

Modern football's too intense for that, just one player not doing the minimum defensive work is enough to crumble the entire team's formation. You see it all the time all over Europe, especially in Barcelona. Messi's lack of tactical discipline not only affects our defensive shape, but also hampers other players ability to perform at their best as they have to make up for the shortcomings resulting from Messi's unique role in the team, ie midfielders like Rakitic or De Jong covering the flanks more than they should and fullbacks not being able to play at their best.

I'm just saying you should be able to see the consequences from being okay with Messi's current role. If you're fine with

1. Limited options in attack

2. Lack of width

3. Fragile defense

4. Hampered Midfield and/or fullback performances

5. Results suffering due to the aforementioned points.

Then I've got no beef with you. Seriously, there's a reason the "no. 10 role" a la Riquelme/Zidane/Rivaldo has almost completely vanished from the modern game.
 

malvolio

Senior Member
Modern football's too intense for that, just one player not doing the minimum defensive work is enough to crumble the entire team's formation. You see it all the time all over Europe, especially in Barcelona. Messi's lack of tactical discipline not only affects our defensive shape, but also hampers other players ability to perform at their best as they have to make up for the shortcomings resulting from Messi's unique role in the team, ie midfielders like Rakitic or De Jong covering the flanks more than they should and fullbacks not being able to play at their best.

I'm just saying you should be able to see the consequences from being okay with Messi's current role. If you're fine with

1. Limited options in attack

2. Lack of width

3. Fragile defense

4. Hampered Midfield and/or fullback performances

5. Results suffering due to the aforementioned points.

Then I've got no beef with you. Seriously, there's a reason the "no. 10 role" a la Riquelme/Zidane/Rivaldo has almost completely vanished from the modern game.

So you're blaming the shortcomings of other players, manager and the team transfer strategy on Messi. Good one!

"As long as you're not Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi - you have to defend." - Jurgen Klopp
 

Laplacian

Senior Member
So you're blaming the shortcomings of other players, manager and the team transfer strategy on Messi. Good one!

"As long as you're not Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi - you have to defend." - Jurgen Klopp

Saying that tactical issues arising from Messi's unique role is a problem not the same as saying as it's the only problem. If you want to improve on any of the points I mentioned change in personnel and overall team tactics, along with Messi's unique role will have to go. I'm not saying his tactical role in the team is the only or even the biggest problem in the team. It's that simple.

You people are honestly way too defensive over him, it's like he's your dad or some shit. Relax.
 

malvolio

Senior Member
Saying that tactical issues arising from Messi's unique role is a problem not the same as saying as it's the only problem. If you want to improve on any of the points I mentioned change in personnel and overall team tactics, along with Messi's unique role will have to go. I'm not saying his tactical role in the team is the only or even the biggest problem in the team. It's that simple.

You people are honestly way too defensive over him, it's like he's your dad or some shit. Relax.

Not my dad and couldn't care less about an illiterate idiot who is filthy rich only because he is good at kicking a ball with his feet.
But I can appreciate what the man does for the team that I support. Also I'm not watching sports in general to see hard working individuals, we have construction workers for that. What I want to see is entertainment. And Messi delivers on entertainment with ruthless efficiency. So, as long he is not deadweight and even carries the team, why would I have something against the man?
Want to blame him for something? Blame him when he doesn't score an easy chance, not for not working hard..
 
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Kul_z

Senior Member
It's also Salah's, mahrez's, Ronaldo's, Neymar's, Mbappe's, Werner, Aguero's...it goes on.

I didnt see any of this players you mentioned doing that. Only thing that messi needs to do is maintain his position and press in his area, what he actually does against stronger opponents. Spotlight on messi is so huge that every single thing he 'does' wrong in case we're losing is multiplying.
 

Laplacian

Senior Member
Not my dad and couldn't care less about an illiterate idiot who is filthy rich only because he is good at kicking a ball with his feet.
But I can appreciate what the man does for the team that I support. Also I'm not watching sports in general to see hard working individuals, we have construction workers for that. What I want to see is a entertainment. And Messi delivers on entertainment with ruthless efficiency. So, as long he is not deadweight and even carries the team, why would I have something against the man?

Again, you are arguing against an extreme fictional version of my argument. I'm not saying Messi needs to be more tactically disciplined because I enjoy watching hard working individuals, I want tactical discipline from each player in the starting lineup because I believe (and I think other users too) it leads to better individual and overall team performances.
 

MTL_Barca

Well-known member
I think Messi is a special case because his attacking qualities are so high, he's more valuable than any other attacker for creating and finishing. So i'd say it's still absolutely worth it despite the downsides in defending.

The problem is more that Barca isn't putting in much effort to compensate for Messis lack of defending/running at all. Too many of the other players lack speed, stamina, strength and that's just not gonna cut it. Everyone applauds Griezmann for his workrate when ideally that really shouldn't be all that special especially when you have Messi on the team.
 
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TANGA NIO

Banned
messi should put his shit together. yes he is the best ever, a joy to watch but he is fuking the team...with a real coach he would be fuked, with a klopp type of coach he would be asked about if wants to pay football or go to the beach in barcelona, he is playing like a dead man cadaver on the pitch, he wants to play givin 100% or not??? man up

Seriously what is this real coach you people talking about ?
Do you actually believe that a coach is bigger than Messi, they will just bow down to his will.
 

sickstar

New member
Again, you are arguing against an extreme fictional version of my argument. I'm not saying Messi needs to be more tactically disciplined because I enjoy watching hard working individuals, I want tactical discipline from each player in the starting lineup because I believe (and I think other users too) it leads to better individual and overall team performances.

Have you seen Messi plays differently than Messi this season? Even in his 2010-2015 peak years ?
The answer is no. Yes the quality may be 'a bit' declining, his strength and pace that is, but I could argue he has some achievements in other ways, namely passing, through ball, freekick.
With 10 players defending, we can be UCL champion in 2011, 2015. Do you view that time of era as not modern time football? with lower class of enemies?
Difference with 2010-2015, of course we have different coach, different tactic, but it's not his play but the team's quality that has been declining. We don't have a group defending that is as good as the old days. Key players such as pique, busi are getting old, and we need need players as good as them to back our back line. Of course, overall Messi is also not as good as his peak years, but there's not much decline, go back to one year ago. If not because of those injuries, he would've been haunting enemies such as last year.

And that's it. He just become world best again last year ffs, deservingly so, with being the best at almost every attacking statistics. How can people forget something like this so easily, over and over again, it isn't possible to be a different man in every other match. Messi is Messi. I still remember his oftenly spoken word, with playing more he become better. With his age, there's a limit to the 'more' part but this past month, after the new year, he rarely touch the field so you could see the impact.

Like in today's match, i lost count how many quick accurate passes he could make. Only at mid match that his passing started to get intercepted, not met the target etc. First goal as pre assist, nice cutting pass, then assist for Lenglet's goal and two okay goals. Not bad at all for an old man. Not many dribbles though.
 
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CatalinR10

Senior Member
Let's hope The Best Fifa Football Player , Golden Boot and Ballon D'or scores against Levante.



[MENTION=21723]Pedro[/MENTION]


[MENTION=19457]KingLeo10[/MENTION]


[MENTION=17309]Vilarrubi[/MENTION]


[MENTION=20830]Hardy[/MENTION]


[MENTION=16751]Devils[/MENTION]


[MENTION=20484]gasgas[/MENTION]
 

Flavius

Member
Let's hope The Best Fifa Football Player , Golden Boot and Ballon D'or scores against Levante.



[MENTION=21723]Pedro[/MENTION]


[MENTION=19457]KingLeo10[/MENTION]


[MENTION=17309]Vilarrubi[/MENTION]


[MENTION=20830]Hardy[/MENTION]


[MENTION=16751]Devils[/MENTION]


[MENTION=20484]gasgas[/MENTION]


:lol:. Hattrick incoming

Messi will be Messi again this season, no worries. Team must step up in crucial moments, especially on defending.
 

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