Lionel Messi - v7
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
About the low conversion to goal, got to do some highlight review to count how many shots, how many shots on goal from those shot and how many from those s.o.g which were good ones i.g good saves from the goalie. Even shots like his last shot of the game yesterday was a good effort despite missing the goal (gk was nowhere near it).
Also we have to remember the news of his thigh discomfort could probably affect. Shots required full strength, sometimes, but when you put full force on passes or assists, it always mean a very long ball pass, something which only back four or keeper sometimes do.
Now for everyone still having a bad word for messi, pay attention to these fact:
1. How many times did messi assisted goals these past three la liga matches? Answer: 6
2. How many goals did we score in those last three matches? 7
There you go.
Also we have to remember the news of his thigh discomfort could probably affect. Shots required full strength, sometimes, but when you put full force on passes or assists, it always mean a very long ball pass, something which only back four or keeper sometimes do.
Now for everyone still having a bad word for messi, pay attention to these fact:
1. How many times did messi assisted goals these past three la liga matches? Answer: 6
2. How many goals did we score in those last three matches? 7
There you go.
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Messigician
Senior Member
Valverde got the best out of him
Lol how can this be true counting how many goals ronaldo scored last season.
Im not hating ronaldo t.b.h but at least i know he is also declining.
Messi, again, even with scoring fewer has more assists on his sleeves. Ronaldo last season? 10 all season and messi has potential to at least double that while still has a chance to score 30 goals in the end. And ronaldo's assist number has been shit this season, 2 in almost 30 ?? Now i know how he could score those many, even without looking the data.
Messi has bad luck with finishes these last few games thats it, but he compromise that with assists. I think he play smart, that where other teams think with the absence of suarez, barcelona only have messi as its source of goal, while realizing later that he's not only good on scoring but also master at creating chances. There you have fati, griezman, even busi and de jong as the receiver of his other 'goodies'.
Oh yeah before somebody said last season was still adaptation season of ronaldo, barca also has new players this season to adapt with the team's style, (griezmann, de jong, and fati in some matches), which correlate with messi, of course, as football is a team game
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raskolnikov
Well-known member
Next match against Eibar at home I really expect him to score a brace at least.
His finishing been ooor for his standards but also a bit unlucky and his overall play was good.
Which is most important. These things happen
His finishing been ooor for his standards but also a bit unlucky and his overall play was good.
Which is most important. These things happen
BBZ8800
Senior Member
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Btw
In 14 league matches under EV
And 5 matches under Setien
Messi had 51 shots under EV and scored 13 goals.
Under Setien, Messi has 40 shooting attempts in a row without a goal.
A few random ideas:
1. Maybe it is just a bad luck
2. Maybe Messi has declined
3. Maybe he is too tired due to Setien's training and his finishing is suffering
4. Maybe he is moving more during matches so he is tired once when he gets into finishing chances
5. Maybe our attacking patterns and movement is different than under EV, so Messi is shooting from different positions
6. Maybe Messi has confidence issues under a new coach
7. Maybe there is no no9 in a team, so the opponents are marking Messi more heavily so his shots are weaker due to having too many players around him too often so he has to shoot from bad positions
We will find out in upcoming weeks.
In 14 league matches under EV
And 5 matches under Setien
Messi had 51 shots under EV and scored 13 goals.
Under Setien, Messi has 40 shooting attempts in a row without a goal.
A few random ideas:
1. Maybe it is just a bad luck
2. Maybe Messi has declined
3. Maybe he is too tired due to Setien's training and his finishing is suffering
4. Maybe he is moving more during matches so he is tired once when he gets into finishing chances
5. Maybe our attacking patterns and movement is different than under EV, so Messi is shooting from different positions
6. Maybe Messi has confidence issues under a new coach
7. Maybe there is no no9 in a team, so the opponents are marking Messi more heavily so his shots are weaker due to having too many players around him too often so he has to shoot from bad positions
We will find out in upcoming weeks.
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malvolio
Senior Member
Are the numbers real? Just curious because most people in here say that we are creating much more under Setien and Messi has a lot more goalscoring chances which he doesn't convert.
JohnN
Senior Member
Such finished. Much declined. Wow!!
So many spoiled people don't realise Messi has been a perfect goal scorer for so many years. Some matches without scoring and they say has declined massively, the coach gets him tiered with running and all that beautiful stuff.
Even if he never scores from now on, he is still out best player and he played great. How can you call that a bad game? Disgusting stuff to promote agendas is all I see.
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Messigician
Senior Member
So? we need him to put away golden chances
serghei
Senior Member
51 shots under EV in 14 matches is 3.6 shots / game
40 shots under Setien in 5 matches is 8 shots / game
So, according to BBZ's own stats Messi has more than two times more chances to score now than under Valverde. And that's not even mentioning the quality of chances. Since under Valverde Messi used to score mostly solo goals or insane free-kicks.
Anyway, Messi's finishing needs to improve. That's the point. If he's struggling with normal intensity trainings, then he needs to work harder or retire. But my opinion is that he has discomfort. He doesn't look 100% and the big bandage on his left thigh confirms that.
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serghei
Senior Member
Yes, which is why people wanted EV out. Because his training sessions and match preparation were for old men. And our competition is not made of old men, but of very fit athletes.
Your bad logic is astonishing. You're trying to imply that if veterans can no longer train properly, we should hire puppet managers who should lower the bar so these veterans can half ass it until they are 36. Maybe just train 1 day per week at most.
Dude, the level keeps being high. Very demanding. It's how veterans sense it's time to retire and pass the torch. Our veterans have been pampered to the point the whole team's intensity has been brought down to suit them and their comfort. Which is idiotic for any professional team. It's why we always are bullied and overpowered in terms of agility and speed. To even imply this when you claim you value physicality and speed and energy is mind-boggling. You really don't realize how bad your arguments are?
Which is why trainings are important. If most 32-33 year old players can do it, so should Messi. If he can't and is hurting the team -> retirement. This team should no longer tailor its match preparation and fitness programs based on how much 32-33 year old players are willing to run.
This is true. He now shoots with less accuracy from 7 yards in 1 vs 1 with the keeper, than from 25-30m free-kicks under Valverde. He needs to improve, as the only responsible for this bad finishing is Messi. But imo this is tied with his discomfort issues, so he has an excuse imo.
If he has confidence issues with a manager whose tactics give him more and clearer chances to score, he needs to get over them.
True with the first part. Horribly false with the 2nd. He shoots from better positions now. It's just that the finishing is way off. For example, the lob he failed to score vs Getafe was piss easy for him. The chance he missed vs Bilbao, again, piss easy for someone like Messi. These are not bad positions. These are perfect 1 vs 1 positions that he has wasted.
So, my friend BBZ, every point where you still defend EV and attack Setien is plagued by insanely bad logic. Every other point where you don't do that and don't desperately look for an agenda, you are right.
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KingLeo10
Senior Member
You do realize that Messi scored 54 goals in 52 games in 16/17. And then dropped to 41 goals in 17/18. Should I hold EV responsible for the drop in numbers?No, because it doesn't work that way. Messi is Messi and you actually trying to discredit him to big up EV is a patent troll move.
Kinda fits the bill that since you can't nitpick on the usual suspects, you'd go for the most sensational troll. Keep catching those Ls.
Mitchell1978
Senior Member
No, because it doesn't work that way. Messi is Messi and you actually trying to discredit him to big up EV is a patent troll move.
Kinda fits the bill that since you can't nitpick on the usual suspects, you'd go for the most sensational troll. Keep catching those Ls.
It was actually 45 in 17-18.
to be fair to BBZ, the numbers he mentioned about Messi's shots this season are correct: 13 goals on about 50 shots for Valverde which is a conversion rate almost on par to his best seasons to 1 goal on about 40 shots under Setien.
The drop off is massive, you have to wonder if the minor injury he is carrying is hampering his shotpower. Or if its just some lesser form as far as finishing/shooting is concerned.
Even Messi has had 'dry' spells before.
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