Lionel Messi - v7

[bismp]

I don't know if his considerable dip in form is temporary or permanent,but a legit problem he has had in the latter part of his career is his leadership skills.When things don't go his way,his body language convey a total resignation.Of course that is not always the case,sometimes he manages to turn it on and make one or multiple decisive plays.But,let's be honest the man has been a part of teams that have lost 3 consecutive finals and were pretty shit in WC 2018 and Copa 2019(with argentina) and that have suffered multiple humiliations/bad defeats in crucial matches the last 4-5 years(with Barca)

Of course,he can't make the team magically become better. Especially these days,you can't blame him for the losses themselves.The team is the worst it has been the last 15 years,as a result of a series of bad sporting management choices.

However there have been many occasions when he completely turned the switch off and resigned to the idea that the team was going to lose.And when the team sees their best player and captain resign,they surely won't manage to overcome the difficulties on their own.

 

[sickstar]

idk, maybe he is missing his old pal, xavi, iniesta, neymar, suarez... even fabregas? :S
now only busquets left. Damn when we had this lineup all in prime condition at beginning 2010s i think, except neymar and suarez, which a little bit after that, we are dominating every team, winning like 3 or 4 against big teams, and we don't even need to defend (a little exaggeration ofc) but when you have a midfield with so much domination, creativity and threat, enemies are afraid to leave their post. Now... look at how many player madrid has in our box? They're not afraid at all. :S

 

[Richard.H]

I don't know if his considerable dip in form is temporary or permanent,but a legit problem he has had in the latter part of his career is his leadership skills.When things don't go his way,his body language convey a total resignation.Of course that is not always the case,sometimes he manages to turn it on and make one or multiple decisive plays.But,let's be honest the man has been a part of teams that have lost 3 consecutive finals and were pretty shit in WC 2018 and Copa 2019(with argentina) and that have suffered multiple humiliations/bad defeats in crucial matches the last 4-5 years(with Barca)

I agree that his body language is perhaps the worst to watch out of any top players in the game today. You can kind of sense he has totally switched off in the match. I think the only competition I've seen him be proactive/have a positive body language was WC 2014.

 

[KingLeo10]

I agree that his body language is perhaps the worst to watch out of any top players in the game today. You can kind of sense he has totally switched off in the match. I think the only competition I've seen him be proactive/have a positive body language was WC 2014.

This is just over the top. Maybe you've missed 05-12 and 14-15 or even last season (he literally carried us to the SF and almost to the final).

He had a terrible game but this is a hot take of epic proportions.

 

[Andrew M]

I agree that his body language is perhaps the worst to watch out of any top players in the game today. You can kind of sense he has totally switched off in the match. I think the only competition I've seen him be proactive/have a positive body language was WC 2014.

How many times has Ronaldo thrown a tantrum on the pitch like a 5 year old yet people call him a great leader.

 

[Richard.H]

This is just over the top. Maybe you've missed 05-12 and 14-15 or even last season (he literally carried us to the SF and almost to the final).

He had a terrible game but this is a hot take of epic proportions.

05-12? Really? You forgot about Puyol and Xavi? Heck even Victor Valdes was a captain.

Not a hot take at all. SF last year only in Camp Nou where he is a totally different player, but in Anfield didn't do anything. 14/15 it was mostly Neymar communicating/motivating the attack, except for Bayern semis.

He is the way he is. His body language has nothing to do with the way he plays.

 

[KingLeo10]

05-12? Really? You forgot about Puyol and Xavi? Heck even Victor Valdes was a captain.

Not a hot take at all. SF last year only in Camp Nou where he is a totally different player, but in Anfield didn't do anything. 14/15 it was mostly Neymar communicating/motivating the attack, except for Bayern semis.

He is the way he is. His body language has nothing to do with the way he plays.

What does Puyol and Xavi have to do with Messi's body language? In your post, you said his body language was only good during the WC 2014 and I pointed out the years I disagree about.

 

[Richard.H]

What does Puyol and Xavi have to do with Messi's body language? In your post, you said his body language was only good during the WC 2014 and I pointed out the years I disagree about.

He is the captain of the team now. Other players look to him for motivation. Young players in the team need that mental motivation from their captain.

The years you mentioned there was less pressure on things like body language/mental fortitude simply because he wasn’t the captain.

 

[KingLeo10]

He is the captain of the team now. Other players look to him for motivation. Young players in the team need that mental motivation from their captain.

The years you mentioned there was less pressure on things like body language/mental fortitude simply because he wasn’t the captain.

It doesn't work that black/white. You could just as easily say Xavi and Puyol's captainship was made easier because we had world class players everywhere on the pitch and the bench.

Captaincy to me is also about an excellent standard of play. Which Messi brings 90% of the time. Not even world class players do that. Look at Salah and Mane lately.

 

[Richard.H]

How many times has Ronaldo thrown a tantrum on the pitch like a 5 year old yet people call him a great leader.

Throwing a tantrum is still much better than looking at the ground and walking on the pitch. At least it shows you care. Once again, he’s the captain so he has a lot more pressure on his shoulders to inspire the team

 

[Richard.H]

It doesn't work that black/white. You could just as easily say Xavi and Puyol's captainship was made easier because we had world class players everywhere on the pitch and the bench.

Of course, no doubt about it. We had a much stronger team back then. Once again, I’m not blaming the loss on Messi. I’m simply discussing how he’s very different than most captains and top players of other teams

 

[KingLeo10]

Of course, no doubt about it. We had a much stronger team back then. Once again, I’m not blaming the loss on Messi. I’m simply discussing how he’s very different than most captains and top players of other teams

I can agree to the latter part. He isn't vocal enough to me but still has an excellent standard of play for the most part. I guess you could highlight his CL away game issues of late but to me that's a very deep rooted issue that while he's a part of, he can't cure alone.

 

[DonAK]

I'll say this though, and I've mentioned it before. I don't agree with the "he's finished", "we should move on from him" comments.

That's rubbish.

But his position is a big problem moving forward. We ideally want to be able to play through both flanks and with a CF. Where will Messi fit in here?

By suggestion would be signing a B2B MF/A ball winning MF like Camavinga to pair him up with de Jong and then sign a CF and LW and play a 4-2-1-3.

ter Stegen
RB - CB - CB - LB
Camavinga - de Jong
Messi
RW/Griez - CF - LW

​

First of all you get the best out of de Jong and add some proper solidity in the midfield by pairing him up with another athletic midfielder that's great defensively and ascending.

Who cares about "control" if you're just going to play sideway passes all the time? We need to be able to move the ball quicker. A lot quicker.

Messi's position becomes less of a problem and he can fully utilize his playmaking ability and still make those late runs in the box being able to play off a CF.

You finally get two wingers or wide players we can play through, who can also help out defensively.

You don't have to sacrifice a CF to fit everyone in.

Is it perfect? No. Never will be. But it could be good. It might be a bit of a mess defensively at first, but we're going to be either way.

 

[DonAK]

A traditional 4-3-3 is dead with Messi and a 4-4-2 is never going to work with him either unless you have a player like Mbappé spearheading the attack with him.

 

[El Gato]

Get Mourinho in to play that 4-2-3-1. He'd sort Leo out.