Lionel Messi - v7

[Vilarrubi]

Lowest workrate level in his career mostly. Walks the most not because he has physically declined, but because he is more relaxed, less intense and committed on the pitch as a whole.

In your opinion. This comes back to the conversation we had after the Roma defeat. You believe due to his low workrate we are getting knocked out in the CL. I disagree, I think that probably contributes 10% of the reason we lose maybe even less.

I'd argue that add a hard working, pressing RW who stays in his position for most of the game (Salah for example) in any of our defeats in the CL and the result stays the same.

You could have the hardest working front 3 making runs off the ball into space but how would that change the fact that we have a completely DYSFUNCTIONAL MIDFIELD that cannot pass under high pressing or pressure that backpasses and keeps the ball in their own half because they don't have the awareness or ability to bypass that press. Rakitic-Busi-Vidal was the reason we lost that game in that fashion, not Messi's workrate. It's easier to blame him though because of his status, but if you take a step back and look at it with an open mind it's obvious what the problem is.

 

[te amo barca]

In your opinion. This comes back to the conversation we had after the Roma defeat. You believe due to his low workrate we are getting knocked out in the CL. I disagree, I think that probably contributes 10% of the reason we lose maybe even less.

I'd argue that add a hard working, pressing RW who stays in his position for most of the game (Salah for example) in any of our defeats in the CL and the result stays the same.

You could have the hardest working front 3 making runs off the ball into space but how would that change the fact that we have a completely DYSFUNCTIONAL MIDFIELD that cannot pass under high pressing or pressure that backpasses and keeps the ball in their own half because they don't have the awareness or ability to bypass that press. Rakitic-Busi-Vidal was the reason we lost that game in that fashion, not Messi's workrate. It's easier to blame him though because of his status, but if you take a step back and look at it with an open mind it's obvious what the problem is.

We can have an Arthur - De Jong - Puig/Roberto midfield and Messi will still drop for the ball. He did it when we had Xavi and Iniesta, why won't he do it with Arthur and De Jong? That is his style of play at this point of his career. He likes to drop to the defensive midfielder position, likes to be involved in the game as much as possible. The problem is that he is even less dedicated now in half of La Liga games, but we still win thanks to his brilliance.

That's my prediction, at least. If EV has any guts to play Arthur and De Jong together, we will see whether that will be true this season.

Of course we would look better with a manager who specializes in positional play, but with EV it is what it is.

 

[MagIX]

He, like all humans, is not perfect.
It's true, he's never had a high workrate level in his career, since always, not just now, nothing new. And now he's no longer 20 years old.....
But the problem does not exist, because he has such qualities (considered by many the best ever, or at least among the best ever, with fabulous statistics,...) that the defects are totally insignificant, insignificant details.

Sarri (Juve coach):"Cristiano Ronaldo is the best player of juventus, we just have to organize the defensive phase of the 10 players behind him. He can really play anywhere, he's the best ever and you have to let him express himself." Same for Messi.

 

[serghei]

He, like all humans, is not perfect.
It's true, he's never had a high workrate level in his career, since always, not just now, nothing new. And now he's no longer 20 years old.....
But the problem does not exist, because he has such qualities (considered by many the best ever, or at least among the best ever, with fabulous statistics,...) that the defects are totally insignificant, insignificant details.

Sarri (Juve coach):"Cristiano Ronaldo is the best player of juventus, we just have to organize the defensive phase of the 10 players behind him. He can really play anywhere, he's the best ever and you have to let him express himself." Same for Messi.

Yea, it's is normal to lose some of the spark and the passion after almost 15 years of being in the game.

But I watch regularly Guardiola Barcelona full matches because I'm interesting in the tactics we used at the time, and I can tell you Messi was much more dynamic and involved than now. The biggest difference is in Messi's movement when the ball was near his area. He still walked back then with Pep when the ball hadn't come near him, and this is normal since you don't have to run like a headless chicken and tire yourself out (that would be stupid actually), but back then, every time a teammate passed the ball around his space he would become much more active and dynamic.

Right now, this movement to get in possession has declined, and he expects ball to feet much more without doing the needed off the ball movement first. I'd say that is the biggest difference between this Messi and prime Messi with Pep, along with his explosion in the first meters which is normal to fade with age. Messi these days actually prefers to drop and get in possession in a worse position, but be free of marking, than keep his advanced spot near the 16m box of the opponent, and move off the ball to be able to receive there.

So I agree it's normal to decline with time. I don't agree with pretending the decline is not clear. It is clear. Only thing that has remained the same with Messi is his talent (and his service, as in passing). Everything else that he does, he does it at a lower level compared with his past versions.

 

[Never_Forget40]

He, like all humans, is not perfect.
It's true, he's never had a high workrate level in his career, since always, not just now, nothing new. And now he's no longer 20 years old.....
But the problem does not exist, because he has such qualities (considered by many the best ever, or at least among the best ever, with fabulous statistics,...) that the defects are totally insignificant, insignificant details.

Sarri (Juve coach):"Cristiano Ronaldo is the best player of juventus, we just have to organize the defensive phase of the 10 players behind him. He can really play anywhere, he's the best ever and you have to let him express himself." Same for Messi.

Yeah but first we need a manager who has the power to do that. Our midfield will be on a new level this season, it will be the strongest since 2011 so Messi doesnt need to drop this time. If he stays at the front and just concentrate to give assists and score goals, we will be unstoppable.

 

[MagIX]

So I agree it's normal to decline with time. I don't agree with pretending the decline is not clear. It is clear. Only thing that has remained the same with Messi is his talent (and his service, as in passing). Everything else that he does, he does it at a lower level compared with his past versions.

Yes, that's normal, becuase he's a human. But even if the decline is clear, despite the fact that he's declining, he still has fabulous statistics, that any other player would dream of, something never seen before.
Therefore there is no problem and same for Messi what Sarri said about CR.

 

[serghei]

Yes, that's normal, becuase he's a human. But even if the decline is clear, despite the fact that he's declining, he still has fabulous statistics, that any other player would dream of, something never seen before.
Therefore there is no problem and same for Messi what Sarri said about CR.

Yea, no problem. Thing in CL is more down to manager than anything, and Messi is key in our extended La Liga dominance. Don't think we should build our game so much around Messi anymore that's all. We have a team that is very much filled with quality and we need to let all of the top players we have to express themselves more. Not just defer to Messi and hope for the best.

 

[bismp]

Heard that he won’t play vs Athletic

 

[Never_Forget40]

Heard that he won’t play vs Athletic

No, seems like he wont travel to Bilbao but we should still win the match.

 

[Pedro]

[youtube]6d6OIxkPq1g[/youtube]

 

[DonAndres]

Lowest workrate level in his career mostly. Walks the most not because he has physically declined, but because he is more relaxed, less intense and committed on the pitch as a whole.

18/19 was nowhere near the lowest workrate level in his career, both in terms of offensive movement and defensive pressing. 13/14 and 15/16 were his really bad seasons for this. He was just as lazy in 12/13 too IMO but he was scoring a stupid amount of goals regardless.

16/17 he was always on fire and in great form for the season except for the PSG loss and the games we played the 3-4-3 where it was painfully obvious that the formation was built to put Neymar on a pedestal and get him his best/most touches and Messi saw a lot less action. 17/18 was mixed. He didn't press much, and he did move off the ball a decent amount but not as much as his best years.

18/19 there was not a SINGLE game where I thought Messi was playing absent when he should've showed up, or where he looked notably out of it and disconnected from the game. He moved off the ball a decent amount and, while he didn't press much, he did it to a respectable level for a 31 year old and especially vs Lyon/United/Liverpool I saw him putting in a shift.

More importantly, he seemed to master where and when to be whenever the team needed him. He wasn't busting his lungs out but he still managed to be exactly where we needed him, when we needed it. Every time. He wasn't on and off in big games like he has been in years before, he was always there and always found a way to make a difference (or get really, REALLY fucking close to one like at Anfield).

 

[FCB1987]

Leo won't be happy to see Ronaldo on the shortlist for Uefa player of the year. At least one good sign is that Alisson, Mane, and Salah finished 4-6. Hopefully they took some votes off Van Dijk to help Leo win.

 

[Hardy]

Leo won't be happy to see Ronaldo on the shortlist for Uefa player of the year. At least one good sign is that Alisson, Mane, and Salah finished 4-6. Hopefully they took some votes off Van Dijk to help Leo win.

Leo right now

[tw]1162022424105426944[/tw]

 

[Vilarrubi]

Leo right now

[tw]1162022424105426944[/tw]

 

[Pedro]

Leo won't be happy to see Ronaldo on the shortlist for Uefa player of the year. At least one good sign is that Alisson, Mane, and Salah finished 4-6. Hopefully they took some votes off Van Dijk to help Leo win.

Van Dijk will win that one no doubt, it always goes to whoever won the CL. The big one is the Ballon D'or