JamDav1982
Senior Member
What does that mean?
Barca lost 7-0 on aggregate to Bayern before and one off games United beat Roma 7-1 in knockouts.
Lionel Messi - v7
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
What does that mean?
Barca lost 7-0 on aggregate to Bayern before and one off games United beat Roma 7-1 in knockouts.
Horatio
You're welcome
Wait ur right. Let me pull up that source again.
Horatio
You're welcome
Sorry. I completely messed up on that one. Stat is that it?s the first time a team ever scored 4 goals within 31 minutes of the game in knockout stage.
jairzinho
Senior Member
With those two slow pokes up front, Bayern could easily afford to play an extremely high line consistently and with minimum risk.
There's little to zero threat on the counter from deep positions with these two and it hampers our transition game.
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serghei
Senior Member
Now it's Suarez' turn. Notice that I'm leaving aside all the advanced things most modern strikers do, like pressuring the CBs in build-up, blocking the pass from CBs to dropping DLP (Thiago) by positioning. Those are out of the question from the start with Messi and Suarez. Only off the ball basics here, minimal things all players should do.
Here is as simple as helping a player under heavy numerical inferiority. Bayern hound poor De Jong in a 3 vs 1 and not Vidal, and not Suarez make any advancing move in the yellow space to provide an option.
Some notes on the positioning of Bayern, and they supposed "scared of Messi" thing. Far from it. They don't even care for Messi. Messi is left standing on the right in space by Davies. Davies synchronizes with the rest of his backline and the position of the ball (the opponent's opportunities of pass), irrespective of what Messi does.
Bayern push hard on the area of the ball, knowing Barca have issues playing under pressure, due to poor movement. Every time Bayern does this overcrowding of key areas, our players should adjust and do approaching moves, trying to open up spaces.
Nothing happens, De Jong is left hanging out to dry, loses the ball like it's nothing. Happened multiple times with different players.
Here is as simple as helping a player under heavy numerical inferiority. Bayern hound poor De Jong in a 3 vs 1 and not Vidal, and not Suarez make any advancing move in the yellow space to provide an option.
Some notes on the positioning of Bayern, and they supposed "scared of Messi" thing. Far from it. They don't even care for Messi. Messi is left standing on the right in space by Davies. Davies synchronizes with the rest of his backline and the position of the ball (the opponent's opportunities of pass), irrespective of what Messi does.
Bayern push hard on the area of the ball, knowing Barca have issues playing under pressure, due to poor movement. Every time Bayern does this overcrowding of key areas, our players should adjust and do approaching moves, trying to open up spaces.
Nothing happens, De Jong is left hanging out to dry, loses the ball like it's nothing. Happened multiple times with different players.
feggydinho
Senior Member
This is what we should do, he should leave. I?m tired of seeing people walking when others are covering the grass. It?s irritating, it?s better we learn how to struggle without Messi now and hopefully end this system of having players that feel they don?t have to run Like their teammates. Messi is a legend but we have to fend for ourselves now
putogusiluz8
The Pale One
I vividly remember this moment during the game. Remember thinking to myself "Why aren't they supporting him?" It's so sad. Also the general lethargy and slow movement of the ball we play with, you just wonder why we can't move the ball quicker, also why we are so imprecise with our passing? it's like we are a level below the rest of the top european teams. This isn't a question of form, it's like we don't care and we never have for a long time and this is the level of play we have as a result, just average football.Now it's Suarez' turn. Notice that I'm leaving aside all the advanced things most modern strikers do, like pressuring the CBs in build-up, blocking the pass from CBs to dropping DLP (Thiago) by positioning. Those are out of the question from the start with Messi and Suarez. Only off the ball basics here, minimal things all players should do.
Here is as simple as helping a player under heavy numerical inferiority. Bayern hound poor De Jong in a 3 vs 1 and not Vidal, and not Suarez make any advancing move in the yellow space to provide an option.
Some notes on the positioning of Bayern, and they supposed "scared of Messi" thing. Far from it. They don't even care for Messi. Messi is left standing on the right in space by Davies. Davies synchronizes with the rest of his backline and the position of the ball (the opponent's opportunities of pass), irrespective of what Messi does.
Bayern push hard on the area of the ball, knowing Barca have issues playing under pressure, due to poor movement. Every time Bayern does this overcrowding of key areas, our players should adjust and do approaching moves, trying to open up spaces.
Nothing happens, De Jong is left hanging out to dry, loses the ball like it's nothing. Happened multiple times with different players.
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
I'll say this about Leo. When the team came back post COVID in La Liga, he was trying but failing and genuinely in shit form. With Napoli he was in good form he tried and showed that he could succeed if he wanted to.
With Bayern, he genuinely didn't want to try. Very explicitly in fact. Which, in this case, was pretty rational/pragmatic because it became so obvious so early that the team was just getting obliterated defensively by Bayern. But he didn't try. It would've looked better if he did, even if it wouldn't mean anything for us progressing. And we probably wouldn't have lost by 8-2.
You can see that pattern in some of the meltdowns we have had. Vs Roma, vs Atletico he again did not even try because he decided it was lost. Vs Liverpool I think he really did try at Anfield to pull one out of his ass, he could taste the CL victory but was unlucky nothing he did came off.
So it has become very clear for me that this sort of shit is a conscious decision on Messi's part, whether or not to try based on if he thinks that the game can be won or not. So it's not for a lack of ability but a lack of belief, very clearly. Obviously this is a horrible characteristic in a leader.
However, today it just seemed like it made sense. Some sequences where Ansu was trying hard to make a play and Messi didn't even go up to give him an outlet because he's basically thinking "save your breath kid there's no point".
Messi has a mode where he really thinks there is no point. Today he was right but elsewhere he has entered that mode despite possibility of turning it around and it says a lot about him being a bad leader.
A guy like MJ or Ronaldo would not care about the odds they would just try to test themselves to pull it off. Messi is not made like that, despite being by far the most talented player ever.
With Bayern, he genuinely didn't want to try. Very explicitly in fact. Which, in this case, was pretty rational/pragmatic because it became so obvious so early that the team was just getting obliterated defensively by Bayern. But he didn't try. It would've looked better if he did, even if it wouldn't mean anything for us progressing. And we probably wouldn't have lost by 8-2.
You can see that pattern in some of the meltdowns we have had. Vs Roma, vs Atletico he again did not even try because he decided it was lost. Vs Liverpool I think he really did try at Anfield to pull one out of his ass, he could taste the CL victory but was unlucky nothing he did came off.
So it has become very clear for me that this sort of shit is a conscious decision on Messi's part, whether or not to try based on if he thinks that the game can be won or not. So it's not for a lack of ability but a lack of belief, very clearly. Obviously this is a horrible characteristic in a leader.
However, today it just seemed like it made sense. Some sequences where Ansu was trying hard to make a play and Messi didn't even go up to give him an outlet because he's basically thinking "save your breath kid there's no point".
Messi has a mode where he really thinks there is no point. Today he was right but elsewhere he has entered that mode despite possibility of turning it around and it says a lot about him being a bad leader.
A guy like MJ or Ronaldo would not care about the odds they would just try to test themselves to pull it off. Messi is not made like that, despite being by far the most talented player ever.
Total-Football
Senior Member
Hard to argue with those fax Don
Jadentheman
Active member
Not spoiled he just doesn?t have that mentality. Or rather he did but each final defeat in his career withered it down. Let?s be honest Messi?s confidence of turning around matches went to shit after the World Cup final.
In terms of him leaving? Only if he wants or feels it?s for the best but it would be a bad way to end your legendary Barca career. But perhaps he could go to another league and prove to people that he can build up any team.
In terms of him leaving? Only if he wants or feels it?s for the best but it would be a bad way to end your legendary Barca career. But perhaps he could go to another league and prove to people that he can build up any team.
Horatio
You're welcome
I do think Messi had it all come to him to easily. So insanely talented that he was gonna make it regardless. Never had to fight for his spot once on, being part of one of the greatest teams of all time taken under wing by great players. Now he is not willing to take responsibility, nobody there to look up to no you are the guy now to steer the younger players looking up to you. Not willing to do it, spoiled. Because situation is not optimal to his wishes, not able to muster up fighting spirit.
I think if he had overcome greater adversaries in his life he could have had developed that mentality.
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