Lionel "The Greatest of All Time" Messi V2

[KingLeo10]

You didnt understand me Sito, it's not only about how many trophies you have. Otherwise Joselu > Ibra because he has a cl, as mentioned before if you had the opportunity for example to play 6 Copas as a top2 team while being the Goat and you win 1 it's not enough
Ronaldo scored 14 goals in Euro and is top scorer of all time if i remember correctly but why i have never mentioned it? Because he played 5 Euros so far so yeah it's easier to have the most goals than most strikers who play only 3 Euros in average🦁🦁💯

How about making 2 WC finals, winning 1 (against France especially) in 4 tournaments as main player

Even all time great Spanish and German NT only made 1 WC final

Some like CR7 managed to eliminate Portugal in group stages or R of 16 to B-level teams in their prime

 

[soul24rage]

Ok guys i dont want disputs, my talent is to see things in a objective way without being pro player X because i like him more, lets end this 'discussion' 🐐

You're not being objective if you just put 5 pens in 2022.

This shows that you're biased.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Will this never stop 😭😭

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

How about making 2 WC finals, winning 1 (against France especially) in 4 tournaments as main player

Even all time great Spanish and German NT only made 1 WC final

Some like CR7 managed to eliminate Portugal in group stages or R of 16 to B-level teams in their prime

Main player on paper yes but in 14 the defence was the key to reach final💯🔥

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

You're not being objective if you just put 5 pens in 2022.

This shows that you're biased.

No dude i said in argentina thread that he was top 2 player in WC22, but it's easier to win it if you have 5 pens, that doesnt mean the pens call were wrong, all of them were right 💯🔥

 

[soul24rage]

No dude i said in argentina thread that he was top 2 player in WC22, but it's easier to win it if you have 5 pens, that doesnt mean the pens call were wrong, all of them were right 💯🔥

Then why is scoring 5 pens a minus for him in the GOAT debate?

Even without those pens, if you watch the games (not just for 2022, but all the WC editions), he's been the standout player for Argentina for the majority of the games. Messi doesn't need goals to be the MOTM.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Then why is scoring 5 pens a minus for him in the GOAT debate?

Even without those pens, if you watch the games (not just for 2022, but all the WC editions), he's been the standout player for Argentina for the majority of the games. Messi doesn't need goals to be the MOTM.

Messi = great guy but my point was that often ppl here say he is Goat because of his trophies CV which is very impressive but not Goat level if you consider the many opportunities he had in all 3 competitions (especially Copas), 1 WC is enough for the career of a player but in other 2 competitions it's not enough to be GOAT 🐐

If someone says Messi is Goat because of his individual play i wouldnt disagree, just not because of trophies 🐕

 

[soul24rage]

Messi = great guy but my point was that often ppl here say he is Goat because of his trophies CV which is very impressive but not Goat level if you consider the many opportunities he had in all 3 competitions (especially Copas), 1 WC is enough for the career of a player but in other 2 competitions it's not enough to be GOAT 🐐

If someone says Messi is Goat because of his individual play i wouldnt disagree, just not because of trophies 🐕

Then who has a better trophy CV?

It's the combination of the eye test, trophy CV, individual awards, and stats that defines who is the GOAT and it's really hard to argue against those factors with Messi.

 

[Andresito]

Messi's CV is far from perfect, but I don't see and other player coming close to it. That's how it is in football. There are too many factors for a single player to win all trophies.

I 100% think if Ronaldo had the chance to swap trophy cabinet (collective + individual) with Messi he would. The guy boasts his "top scorer in 4 leagues" accomplishment, imagine if he could say he won everything there is to win + having the absolute biggest cabinet in history.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Then who has a better trophy CV?

It's the combination of the eye test, trophy CV, individual awards, and stats that defines who is the GOAT and it's really hard to argue against those factors with Messi.

we won't agree today....

Messi's CV is far from perfect, but I don't see and other player coming close to it. That's how it is in football. There are too many factors for a single player to win all trophies.

I 100% think if Ronaldo had the chance to swap trophy cabinet (collective + individual) with Messi he would. The guy boasts his "top scorer in 4 leagues" accomplishment, imagine if he could say he won everything there is to win + having the absolute biggest cabinet in history.

 

[Temptation]

Trophy CV?

Objectively speaking:

Without the WC, I'd definitely favour CR7's CV. More varied, versatile, superior in the CL and a Euro with Portugal means way more than a Copa which is a bit of a joke these days. Winning a Euro with Portugal for the first time is a far bigger achievement than winning a Copa with Argentina which is really easy honestly.

With the WC, it gets tricky. WC makes history and creates a permanent historic legacy. I'd give Messi the edge now that he has won the big one. He has the easy international trophies alongside the main one and 3 CLs and plenty of league titles albeit only in one league. Uber Eats league is a joke. Messi has won every trophy he has competed in.

Bringing a bit of nuance into the international trophy argument:

Portugal is simply not a country that can realistically think of winning the WC. Argentina is. They are a historic powerhouse with immense legacy. I think this current generation is the first time Portugal can actually dream of challenging for a WC. But by the time this team developed, Ronaldo was already old and finished. The WC thing is really unfair on CR7 coz he can't realistically win a WC with his country.

Where you can criticise CR7 is his dogshit record in WC KOs. He should have performed better even if he couldn't be expected to win a WC.


Messi vs Ronaldo:

League Football: Equal because Ronaldo has the variety, adaptability and versatility while Messi has consistent wins in one league. I'd give CR7 the slight edge because of 3 top leagues on his CV.

CL: CR7. No arguments.

International: Messi. No arguments. But tough luck CR7 for being Portuguese.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Trophy CV?

Objectively speaking:

Without the WC, I'd definitely favour CR7's CV. More varied, versatile, superior in the CL and a Euro with Portugal means way more than a Copa which is a bit of a joke these days. Winning a Euro with Portugal for the first time is a far bigger achievement than winning a Copa with Argentina which is really easy honestly.

With the WC, it gets tricky. WC makes history and creates a permanent historic legacy. I'd give Messi the edge now that he has won the big one. He has the easy international trophies alongside the main one and 3 CLs and plenty of league titles albeit only in one league. Uber Eats league is a joke. Messi has won every trophy he has competed in.

Bringing a bit of nuance into the international trophy argument:

Portugal is simply not a country that can realistically think of winning the WC. Argentina is. They are a historic powerhouse with immense legacy. I think this current generation is the first time Portugal can actually dream of challenging for a WC. But by the time this team developed, Ronaldo was already old and finished. The WC thing is really unfair on CR7 coz he can't realistically win a WC with his country.

Where you can criticise CR7 is his dogshit record in WC KOs. He should have performed better even if he couldn't be expected to win a WC.


Messi vs Ronaldo:

League Football: Equal because Ronaldo has the variety, adaptability and versatility while Messi has consistent wins in one league. I'd give CR7 the slight edge because of 3 top leagues on his CV.

CL: CR7. No arguments.

International: Messi. No arguments. But tough luck CR7 for being Portuguese.

Very good post

- in league i would give it to La Pulga, guy was a scorerpoint machine in ll
- Messi Copa < Ronaldo EURO
- WC Messi > Ronaldo WC
- Ronaldo Cl >> everyone!

 

[KingLeo10]

The trolls talk about nuance yet turn around and say CR7 Euro > Messi Copa … when CR7 didn’t even play the final Portugal won without him

 

[ArtistCatalunya]

When these players are making millions and billions from their job, business and ads, you are here wasting time still arguing who is the best.
It's 2024 now; not 2014 or 2018.
The debate is over

 

[MagIX]

His Argentina CV alone is top 3 international career.

IMO on par with Maradona's and just slightly behind Pele (because of 2 World Cup wins as main man)

Beckenbauer, R9, and ZZ are slightly after Messi and Maradona NT wise.

Club wise, we all know his Barca career is the best ever.

I would put him ahead of Maradona in terms of NT CV.
Maradona has "only" played 3 times the Copa America, but he never won the tournament, never even reached a final, not even in 1987 with the team that won the WC. Messi has played in 6 and reached the final 4 times (1 win), and with a bit more luck, he could have won more. Btw in modern football, Argentina has won the CA every 30 years, in 1959, 1991-93, and 2021.
I repeat: in terms of national team CV, you can put Messi ahead of Maradona, though obviously in terms of World Cup performance, Maradona beats everyone (WC 1986).