Lliga: Real Madrid - FC Barcelona 3-1

[Pepe Silvia]

Started off screaming at the top of my lungs after the Neymar goal and not even mad when we went down 3-1 considering the players, just gave up. Pique had some good moments but melted down with that PK error. Iniesta was okay but had little command. It was Busquets and Messi that bothered me the most. Couldn't really put too much blame on Mathieu considering it was his first clasico in a new team and forced to play some weird LWB hybrid that had him clearly out of his element. Mascherano was immense. Lucho outclassed. There is a lot more but pretty much all of it has been said already. That's it for now.

 

[putogusiluz8]

But if we want to play quick tiki taka passing with constant movement of the ball you can't have Messi, Neymar and now Suarez taking extra touches. Or at least they have to limit this aspect for the sake of the team especially neymar who loves to hold on to the ball for 10 seconds most of the time. If we could strike the balance of teamplay with the individual brilliance of these players itb amazing. If it's one thing i noticed was how stagnant we were and just waiting for some individual brilliance. It was terrible to watch when Madrid got the ball moving quickly and looked dangerous every possession. I dont know much about tactics but just my two cents. For the first time in years i really felt we were totally outclassed by Madrid.

PTC We are still leaders, we still have a 3 amazing talents upfront who have time to gel. Visca el Barca tomorrow will be a new day.

 

[BarçAjax8]

But if we want to play quick tiki taka passing with constant movement of the ball you can't have Messi, Neymar and now Suarez taking extra touches. Or at least they have to limit this aspect for the sake of the team especially neymar who loves to hold on to the ball for 10 seconds most of the time. If we could strike the balance of teamplay with the individual brilliance of these players itb amazing. If it's one thing i noticed was how stagnant we were and just waiting for some individual brilliance. It was terrible to watch when Madrid got the ball moving quickly and looked dangerous every possession. I dont know much about tactics but just my two cents. For the first time in years i really felt we were totally outclassed by Madrid.

PTC We are still leaders, we still have a 3 amazing talents upfront who have time to gel. Visca el Barca tomorrow will be a new day.

+1
I agree with you there. We have 3 forwards who like to have the ball at their feet which can cause problems for fluidity.
With 3 top forwards as we have it should stretch the opposition defense leaving a lot of space in the center for our midfielders to exploit. The goal should be to create those 1-2 pass situations and continuously moving the ball with triangles.

I really can't put my finger on what type of midfielder Sergi Roberto is but I think not picking up Oliver Torres was a mistake as well as getting the Verminator over younger CBs like Juan Jesus.

 

[Adrian]

But anyway, i'd just like to remind everyone that Ancelotti lost to Both Atletico and Us before getting his act together in the second half of the season and winning two trophies

Why do people keep saying this? Ancelotti and Lucho are two different managers, with Ancelotti having a lot more experience with trying to work several star players into a star team.

Other than that, I agree with everything else you have said.

 

[Gaudi]

Lucho is not a child. If we can see the problems, I'm sure he can too.

He made some mistakes yesterday, that I hope he'll never do again. Like fielding that midfield, and too much rotations. He needs to find his best 11 and stick to it, just resting players sometimes.
We didn't play as an unit, and I think it might be because of too much rotations. Players' form too, but it was the 1st time Pique, Masch and Mathieu played together in defence.

I hope he realized Busquets can't play alone. He needs Rakitic or Masch. Not playing Alba was a mistake too, let Carvajal free to do as he pleased.

And look at this:



The pass that started the play that led to the penalty. I think it's kroos, free to decided what to do. So much space there. I think I saw Lucho making gestures for the team to be compact more than once, but they didn't listen.

Just unbelievable amount of space for mids and right flank, like they have 2 players extra

 

[FC B]

@Ursegor, the board failed big time. The decisive moment, when we needed a ferm and intelligent board was 2012. They should've listen to Pep, he knew that the players were not motivated anymore. He was the only person who could've known that. Instead of listening to him, they decided to let him go and put Tito (RIP) instead. After a season in which we ended 9 points after Madrid, we bought 2 cheap players in the summer of 2012 (Alba and Song). Our team from 2011-12 is just the faded version of the team that played the 2011 CL final on Wembley. Look it up, it's exactly the same, except we put Alba instead of Abidal, who had that liver transplant.

Let's look at the players that were on the market in the summer of 2012:

Hazard - Lille to Chelsea
Thiago Silva - Milan to PSG
Javi Martinez - Bilbao to Bayern
Dante - Monchengladbach to Bayern
Modric - Tottanham to Madrid
Reus - Monchengladbach to Dortmund
Mandzukic - Wolfsburg to Bayern

So, imagine this. After a year in which Bayern finnished 7 points behind Dortmund in Budesliga and made the CL FINAL!!!, they bought 3 starters, all of them which started on Wembley and won the CL next year (Mandzukic, Dante, and Javi Martinez). Barcelona, after a year in which they finnished 9 points after Madrid in La Liga and was eliminated in the CL semifinals, bough 2 cheap players, one starter, and one backup. Talk about faulty management.

Now let's go to 2012/12.

We won the league because Messi scored 92 goals in that year. Then Messi got injured, Tito had that horrible cancer and the team collapsed and got dominated in virtualy every single important game they've played except the 4-0 win against Milan. By that time, the decline was clear and the 0-7 we took against Bayern was the ultimate evidence.

Now let's look at the transfers.

Players available in the 2013 summer transfer window:

Cavani - Napoli to PSG
James Rodriguez - Porto to AS Monaco
Gotze - Dortmund to Bayern
Marquinhos - Roma to PSG
Strootman - PSV to Roma
Falcao - Atletico to AS Monaco
Isco - Malaga to Real Madrid
Tevez - Manchester City to Juventus
Ozil - Real Madrid to Arsenal
Willian - Anji to Chelsea
Lamela - Roma to Tottenham
Bale - Tottenham to Real Madrid

And what do we do? We spend a fortune to Neymar's dad and took only 1 player: Neymar. We just stood there on the market, and let all this young players like Isco, Marquinhos leave to other teams. We had a declining team and a declining midfield and we didn't sign any midfielders. Not one. Instead, WE SOLD one. Thiago.

Thaen, during 2013-14 season, a thropy-less one, of course, we are hit with this ban, we appeal and CAS suspends the suspension. We are allowed to make transfers. And what do we do again? We sell Alexis (horrible move), Cesc, and buy Suarez and some other inferior players like Mathieu, Rakitic and an injured CB that doesn't play. Oh, and the brazilian wonder Douglas. How could I forget about him?

board.

And Lucho, a coach with no credentials to build us a new team.

+1000 !!!

We did take in Alexis and Cesc after the CL victory in 2011 didn't we?

None of them really worked, but I would prefer Cesc to Rakitic. Alexis was a complete and utter failure for us.

He was somehow in that system with those teammates but If Suarez came and he stayed I would have been very happy.

 

[gatsu]

I think that first we must deal with the tactical subject, under Lucho the full backs have more responsibilities than the midfield regarding the whole offensive game and i don't know if it's a good strategic choice considering the profile of our players, with this system:

We are more exposed defensively when we lose the ball.
The midfield participation in the construction game is very limited which is a serious contradiction knowing the importance of the midfield in Barça history.
The pattern used in our attacking approach is unidimensional and simplistic.
Our full backs do not have the ability to eliminate defenders.

We are deliberately reducing the midfield influence, without increasing our offensive potential.

 

[putogusiluz8]

Had Messi's foot struck the ball an inch better from that cross, we might not have been so sever about all this stuff though. A small detail makes a world of a difference. Interestingly enough, we had more Possession than Madrid (55%-45%), only one shot less at goal (5-6) and had 6 more corners than them (9-3) But that's not to take away the flaws we showed that were clear as water, and the fact Madrid looked 20 times more dangerous every possession than we ever did. But perhaps our flaws and errors were aggravated by the way the game begin to swing their way and our players lost confidence. In the end Madrid deserved to win but had we gone up 2-0 maybe things would have been different. Just speculation though.

At least we can be sure we're far away from the gulf that existed in the 5-0 between us and them where we dominated statistically, and on the pitch.

 

[khaled_a_d]

@Ursegor, the board failed big time. The decisive moment, when we needed a ferm and intelligent board was 2012. They should've listen to Pep, he knew that the players were not motivated anymore. He was the only person who could've known that. Instead of listening to him, they decided to let him go and put Tito (RIP) instead. After a season in which we ended 9 points after Madrid, we bought 2 cheap players in the summer of 2012 (Alba and Song). Our team from 2011-12 is just the faded version of the team that played the 2011 CL final on Wembley. Look it up, it's exactly the same, except we put Alba instead of Abidal, who had that liver transplant.

Let's look at the players that were on the market in the summer of 2012:

Hazard - Lille to Chelsea
Thiago Silva - Milan to PSG
Javi Martinez - Bilbao to Bayern
Dante - Monchengladbach to Bayern
Modric - Tottanham to Madrid
Reus - Monchengladbach to Dortmund
Mandzukic - Wolfsburg to Bayern

So, imagine this. After a year in which Bayern finnished 7 points behind Dortmund in Budesliga and made the CL FINAL!!!, they bought 3 starters, all of them which started on Wembley and won the CL next year (Mandzukic, Dante, and Javi Martinez). Barcelona, after a year in which they finnished 9 points after Madrid in La Liga and was eliminated in the CL semifinals, bough 2 cheap players, one starter, and one backup. Talk about faulty management.

Now let's go to 2012/12.

We won the league because Messi scored 92 goals in that year. Then Messi got injured, Tito had that horrible cancer and the team collapsed and got dominated in virtualy every single important game they've played except the 4-0 win against Milan. By that time, the decline was clear and the 0-7 we took against Bayern was the ultimate evidence.

Now let's look at the transfers.

Players available in the 2013 summer transfer window:

Cavani - Napoli to PSG
James Rodriguez - Porto to AS Monaco
Gotze - Dortmund to Bayern
Marquinhos - Roma to PSG
Strootman - PSV to Roma
Falcao - Atletico to AS Monaco
Isco - Malaga to Real Madrid
Tevez - Manchester City to Juventus
Ozil - Real Madrid to Arsenal
Willian - Anji to Chelsea
Lamela - Roma to Tottenham
Bale - Tottenham to Real Madrid

And what do we do? We spend a fortune to Neymar's dad and took only 1 player: Neymar. We just stood there on the market, and let all this young players like Isco, Marquinhos leave to other teams. We had a declining team and a declining midfield and we didn't sign any midfielders. Not one. Instead, WE SOLD one. Thiago.

Thaen, during 2013-14 season, a thropy-less one, of course, we are hit with this ban, we appeal and CAS suspends the suspension. We are allowed to make transfers. And what do we do again? We sell Alexis (horrible move), Cesc, and buy Suarez and some other inferior players like Mathieu, Rakitic and an injured CB that doesn't play. Oh, and the brazilian wonder Douglas. How could I forget about him?

board.

And Lucho, a coach with no credentials to build us a new team.

I agree mostly but I think that there is a bigger problem than those player signings
There is lack of clear sporting project and a lack of true system,this board came with a clear economical one but failed with the sport
Look at Laporta&Txiki duo ,guys trusted Cruijff philosophy ,bought Rijkaard and trusted him even when the team was struggling at the beginning .they brought the players he wanted and made the necessary changes ,the team kept improving year after year ,when the team declined and a need for change was clear they brought another coach ,again trusted by the board and was allowed to put his own system and ideas ,He got rid of Deco & R10 even though both were important figures in the squad,Ronaldinho was even one of the club greats
After winning the trio he asked the club to sign Ibra & Chygrynskiy 2 players Txiki got blamed for signing btw but the man was rejecting to sign renewal offer and wasn't committed long term b/c he wanted to make sure that the club make the transfers he wanted ,signing Ibry&Chygrynskiy might be wrong but it was what it takes to stick to Pep and the team he is building


Then you get Rossel and he decides to save money ,he refuses to make any drastic changes that Pep wants ,even though he was doing everything possible to market Barca brand of football using Pep's model
And when Pep leaves he just sign his assistant in hope the same old model Pep use continue rather than trying to develop a new system with new coach
The club is using La Masia and Barca DNA in marketing itself yet they didn't bother to keep Thiago or develop Deulofeu within the club
When Tito(RIP) leaves they decide to go for an Argentinian coach who has no experience in Europe ,but hey we are the club with latin superstars and he is the Rosario Native like Messi
Tata himself said the club didn't support him and after few months it was clear that the club doesn't like his coaching ideas that he wondered why they brought him ,the club didn't even make a single transfer under his tenure


Now we are back to trying to chase our own myth,bringing back coach with Barca DNA ,the Barca B manager during Pep days ,a coach who once under pressure abandoned his own ideas and still used Busquets,Xavi&Iniesta washed up starting line up ,those trio will be remembered as club legends but at this very moment they aren't good enough together against big teams


Another gr8 example will be Bayern,they realized their mistake with Klinsmaan ,brought LVG and allowed him to buidl a very good team but felt they needed changes soon,brought Hynckess and when he didn't get enough result they bought the players he wanted even with high cost ,they knew with his age he will be moving soon and signed Pep and are supporting him ,few years ago we looked like Bayern,now we look more like Chelsea with Roman craziness


I hope Lucho get his chance and get to put his own ideas freely ,forget about Pep,forget about Tata&Tito man and coach the team the way you think it is the best and the board should fully support him
Next I hope we get a board who understand the game ,a board that will allow coach to put their own ideas in the team within their own system not a coaches who are trying to chase the Pep myth ,Pep days are over and we need to move on

 

[xavi_the_Boss]

Still can´t believe that 3rd goal.Pretty much killed the match for us.

 

[SeloBarca]

I agree mostly but I think that there is a bigger problem than those player signings
There is lack of clear sporting project and a lack of true system,this board came with a clear economical one but failed with the sport
Look at Laporta&Txiki duo ,guys trusted Cruijff philosophy ,bought Rijkaard and trusted him even when the team was struggling at the beginning .they brought the players he wanted and made the necessary changes ,the team kept improving year after year ,when the team declined and a need for change was clear they brought another coach ,again trusted by the board and was allowed to put his own system and ideas ,He got rid of Deco & R10 even though both were important figures in the squad,Ronaldinho was even one of the club greats
After winning the trio he asked the club to sign Ibra & Chygrynskiy 2 players Txiki got blamed for signing btw but the man was rejecting to sign renewal offer and wasn't committed long term b/c he wanted to make sure that the club make the transfers he wanted ,signing Ibry&Chygrynskiy might be wrong but it was what it takes to stick to Pep and the team he is building


Then you get Rossel and he decides to save money ,he refuses to make any drastic changes that Pep wants ,even though he was doing everything possible to market Barca brand of football using Pep's model
And when Pep leaves he just sign his assistant in hope the same old model Pep use continue rather than trying to develop a new system with new coach
The club is using La Masia and Barca DNA in marketing itself yet they didn't bother to keep Thiago or develop Deulofeu within the club
When Tito(RIP) leaves they decide to go for an Argentinian coach who has no experience in Europe ,but hey we are the club with latin superstars and he is the Rosario Native like Messi
Tata himself said the club didn't support him and after few months it was clear that the club doesn't like his coaching ideas that he wondered why they brought him ,the club didn't even make a single transfer under his tenure


Now we are back to trying to chase our own myth,bringing back coach with Barca DNA ,the Barca B manager during Pep days ,a coach who once under pressure abandoned his own ideas and still used Busquets,Xavi&Iniesta washed up starting line up ,those trio will be remembered as club legends but at this very moment they aren't good enough together against big teams


Another gr8 example will be Bayern,they realized their mistake with Klinsmaan ,brought LVG and allowed him to buidl a very good team but felt they needed changes soon,brought Hynckess and when he didn't get enough result they bought the players he wanted even with high cost ,they knew with his age he will be moving soon and signed Pep and are supporting him ,few years ago we looked like Bayern,now we look more like Chelsea with Roman craziness


I hope Lucho get his chance and get to put his own ideas freely ,forget about Pep,forget about Tata&Tito man and coach the team the way you think it is the best and the board should fully support him
Next I hope we get a board who understand the game ,a board that will allow coach to put their own ideas in the team within their own system not a coaches who are trying to chase the Pep myth ,Pep days are over and we need to move on

Agree with both.
Laporta was all team, not so good with economics, but it gave results.
Current board is all about economics, doesnt care to mcuh about the team.

You know after that ban, we gonna try to sign the next superstar striker, and try to find budget defenders again.
And why dont we get Coaches or players that arent Spanish, or speak Spanish anymore? Are Barcelona that nationalistic?
We need some fresh idea. Maybe bringing in coaches of the same "Pep" mold over and over, trying to copy him, isnt the best idea.

 

[DinhoR10]

Why do people keep saying this? Ancelotti and Lucho are two different managers, with Ancelotti having a lot more experience with trying to work several star players into a star team.

Other than that, I agree with everything else you have said.

Meaning that one league result doesn't make a season, its more of a retort to people already discussing new managers.

 

[KingMessi]

It means that even a veteran manager can screw up a couple times when he's just started managing a team. #InLuchoWeTrust

 

[BarçAjax8]

I agree mostly but I think that there is a bigger problem than those player signings
There is lack of clear sporting project and a lack of true system,this board came with a clear economical one but failed with the sport
Look at Laporta&Txiki duo ,guys trusted Cruijff philosophy ,bought Rijkaard and trusted him even when the team was struggling at the beginning .they brought the players he wanted and made the necessary changes ,the team kept improving year after year ,when the team declined and a need for change was clear they brought another coach ,again trusted by the board and was allowed to put his own system and ideas ,He got rid of Deco & R10 even though both were important figures in the squad,Ronaldinho was even one of the club greats
After winning the trio he asked the club to sign Ibra & Chygrynskiy 2 players Txiki got blamed for signing btw but the man was rejecting to sign renewal offer and wasn't committed long term b/c he wanted to make sure that the club make the transfers he wanted ,signing Ibry&Chygrynskiy might be wrong but it was what it takes to stick to Pep and the team he is building


Then you get Rossel and he decides to save money ,he refuses to make any drastic changes that Pep wants ,even though he was doing everything possible to market Barca brand of football using Pep's model
And when Pep leaves he just sign his assistant in hope the same old model Pep use continue rather than trying to develop a new system with new coach
The club is using La Masia and Barca DNA in marketing itself yet they didn't bother to keep Thiago or develop Deulofeu within the club
When Tito(RIP) leaves they decide to go for an Argentinian coach who has no experience in Europe ,but hey we are the club with latin superstars and he is the Rosario Native like Messi
Tata himself said the club didn't support him and after few months it was clear that the club doesn't like his coaching ideas that he wondered why they brought him ,the club didn't even make a single transfer under his tenure


Now we are back to trying to chase our own myth,bringing back coach with Barca DNA ,the Barca B manager during Pep days ,a coach who once under pressure abandoned his own ideas and still used Busquets,Xavi&Iniesta washed up starting line up ,those trio will be remembered as club legends but at this very moment they aren't good enough together against big teams


Another gr8 example will be Bayern,they realized their mistake with Klinsmaan ,brought LVG and allowed him to buidl a very good team but felt they needed changes soon,brought Hynckess and when he didn't get enough result they bought the players he wanted even with high cost ,they knew with his age he will be moving soon and signed Pep and are supporting him ,few years ago we looked like Bayern,now we look more like Chelsea with Roman craziness


I hope Lucho get his chance and get to put his own ideas freely ,forget about Pep,forget about Tata&Tito man and coach the team the way you think it is the best and the board should fully support him
Next I hope we get a board who understand the game ,a board that will allow coach to put their own ideas in the team within their own system not a coaches who are trying to chase the Pep myth ,Pep days are over and we need to move on[/SIZE]

Great post!
I hear what you're saying but I'd like to argue 2 sides to this...
On one hand yes, Lucho should be given the freedom to make this HIS team and play them how he wants and not try to recreate Cruyff/Pep's style. To continue to try to recreate that same magic will only hinder our growth.

On the other hand how should Barcelona move forward on the pitch?
Cruyff & Pep have shown us perfect football, not only how I feel the game should be played but the style/philosophy that the world knows Barcelona by. The Club is the most important thing because in the end that is what we follow. We love players while they're around but they come and go. It was a bad move for the club to let Pep go when he was still doing well. Hypothetically I believe nobody would have a problem selling Messi if it mean't we'd win the next 5 Champions Leagues. Pep should have been given the freedom to change the team how he saw fit because up until that point he hadn't steered us wrong. On the flip side look at how Arsene Wenger has a shadow of the teams he once built but continues to run the club. No person is flawless and Pep is no different but he had this team playing beautiful football and winning trophies... as a fan you can't ask for more.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Great post!
I hear what you're saying but I'd like to argue 2 sides to this...
On one hand yes, Lucho should be given the freedom to make this HIS team and play them how he wants and not try to recreate Cruyff/Pep's style. To continue to try to recreate that same magic will only hinder our growth.

On the other hand how should Barcelona move forward on the pitch?
Cruyff & Pep have shown us perfect football, not only how I feel the game should be played but the style/philosophy that the world knows Barcelona by. The Club is the most important thing because in the end that is what we follow. We love players while they're around but they come and go. It was a bad move for the club to let Pep go when he was still doing well. Hypothetically I believe nobody would have a problem selling Messi if it mean't we'd win the next 5 Champions Leagues. Pep should have been given the freedom to change the team how he saw fit because up until that point he hadn't steered us wrong. On the flip side look at how Arsene Wenger has a shadow of the teams he once built but continues to run the club. No person is flawless and Pep is no different but he had this team playing beautiful football and winning trophies... as a fan you can't ask for more.

The club plays attacking entertaining football ,that is Barca style and philosophy ,we has done with so many coaches b4 Pep and I think even b4 Cruijff ,with Rijkaard we played more physical direct football than Pep but it was very entertaining back then
That is why for example I won't be opposed to a coach like Klopp,his approach is different but his team is still fun to watch while I won't want Mourinho near the club b/c I won't withstand this club playing parking the bust and kicking the opponent football