Luis Enrique

[BBZ8800]

If we assume bolded part gets implemented successfully, then we would trash opponents even without Suarez. If not, then Suarez will be not much of a factor anyway, so it basically breaks down to overall creativity and movement, which is mostly the task of middlefielders. As of now, in a lot of matches Barca looks like handball team sieging the opponents half with numbers, but not doing any penetration what so ever. The results of lack of movement and risky, but potentially creative passing. Suarez will not help, if he would roam around the box like all the others and only receive passes while being with the back to the goal and defenders.

About the debate about movement, how we move less in the last few Seasons, I am seriously starting to think that our glory days and the goat movement of the whole team was working only when goat Xavi was in his prime.

There is no other player in the world who can move/play/pass/link like Xavi can.
When Xavi started to decline, all problems started (yes, we also had 1000 other problems, but still... maybe this one of the key factors for our decline in recent years)

Iniesta can't play in Xavi's way. Busquets can't either.
Rakitic will never be Xavi no matter how much free space he gets.

My point is, with each new Season, I am more and more convinced that we will never be able to play like in Pep's era anymore.
And that none footballer ever will be able to build and lead our play like Xavi did in his prime.

Our fans are constantly saying that we can go back to that style.
And that we just need to run and press more, like in those days... Like it is some simplest thing to do.

Pep's and Xavi's era is gone.
We will need to build some new, different, slightly tweaked style. (and sadly, slightly less creative style)

 

[MagIX]

About the debate about movement, how we move less in the last few Seasons, I am seriously starting to think that our glory days and the goat movement of the whole team was working only when goat Xavi was in his prime.

There is no other player in the world who can move/play/pass/link like Xavi can.
When Xavi started to decline, all problems started (yes, we also had 1000 other problems, but still... maybe this one of the key factors for our decline in recent years)

Iniesta can't play in Xavi's way. Busquets can't either.
Rakitic will never be Xavi no matter how much free space he gets.

My point is, with each new Season, I am more and more convinced that we will never be able to play like in Pep's era anymore.
And that none footballer ever will be able to build and lead our play like Xavi did in his prime.

Our fans are constantly saying that we can go back to that style.
And that we just need to run and press more, like in those days... Like it is some simplest thing to do.

Pep's and Xavi's era is gone.
We will need to build some new, different, slightly tweaked style. (and sadly, slightly less creative style)

As i have written many times, we have finally to realise and accept that the Guardiola era is OVER. I repeat: OVER !!
Nothing wrong, it is not the end of the world: simply a cycle is finished.

Rijkaard started a new cycle in 2003 and ended in 2008, Guardiola started a new cycle in 2008 and ended in 2012......

A huge step forward will be made when we FINALLY understand and accept that the Guardiola era is finished.
But no, we continue to live in the past, we continue to dream instead of REACTING. We have to stop to search a replica of Guardiola: Tito, Tata, Lucho.....
The soccer evelves, changes, like any sport: stand still is the worst thing to do.
We need fresh and new air, new ideas, new concepts, new motivation, new tactics: we have to build a new cycle.

 

[Barcaman]

If the cycle was over in 2012 then we should have started fresh instead of doing the same thing with unmotivated players and watch the gradual demise.
Pep saw what was looming and moved on.

Hopefully Lucho will turn things around but he'll have to succeed where Pep failed and with core players 3 years older. Sounds impossible but stranger things have happened.

 

[BBZ8800]

But no, we continue to live in the past, we continue to dream instead of REACTING. We have to stop to search a replica of Guardiola: Tito, Tata, Lucho.....
The soccer evelves, changes, like any sport: stand still is the worst thing to do.
We need fresh and new air, new ideas, new concepts, new motivation, new tactics: we have to build a new cycle.

Yes.
For some period, I was also "buying" stories from this forum, that coaches were bad, and that we "only" need to go back to our roots, and play triangles, run, move, press.

But, as the time goes by, it seems impossible.
We have to accept that we can only:
1. play a weaker version of Pep's era football, because:
a) goat midfielder Xavi is not the same, and no player in the world will be ever as good for our style/system as he was
b) Messi is not as good as 5 years ago
c) Iniesta also
d) other teams have learned how to neutralize us easier than back in those days
2. we can try to play some different, tweaked style
-- for example, more direct, or more wings oriented etc
-- but then, people (me also) are not satisfied because that style is not as pretty and not as lethal as Pep's style
-- then again, we always whine how we should go back to our roots, but again, that is impossible since we don't have Xavi, Messi and Iniesta in their prime and then we are again in troubles because we are playing a weaker version of Pep's style

It is not an easy problem and I also don't know what we should do, but people should stop saying that we should go back to our roots, play triangles and similar things like in those days.
That is impossible.
The goat Xavi is gone, and he WAS Barca, he was the brain, he was the leader of Tiki-Taka style and the only man on earth who can play it perfectly.
Also, Goat Messi who can score 1000s of Goals per Season is not here anymore.

So, it is hard to tell what the coaches should do. And should we (as fans) lower the expectations, accept our new, uglier playing styles and similar... :/

 

[BBZ8800]

If the cycle was over in 2012 then we should have started fresh instead of doing the same thing with unmotivated players and watch the gradual demise.
Pep saw what was looming and moved on.

Hopefully Lucho will turn things around but he'll have to succeed where Pep failed and with core players 3 years older. Sounds impossible but stranger things have happened.

True.
But the fans and media are probably still in denial.
And even if a coach would like some changes and to implement some fresh ideas, after 2-3 weaker results (like now with Lucho), fans and media start to rave about getting back to our roots, tiki-taka and triangles, and the coach changes his style, he tries to play again like Pep, and then we only over and over crash against buses all over again with playing through the middle and with playing a weaker version of Pep's style, and we go in vicious circles for ages.

I agree with you.
If players are unmotivated and done, sell them, bench them, do something.
Build a new team, new system.

There is no going back to our roots and to Tiki-Taka from 5-7 years ago.

Those days are gone and can't be replicated with the current players.
Also, it is very questionable if any future set of players will be able to replicate the level of Xavi-Iniesta-Messi level, when they were on their prime.

That is very sad, but true.
It seems that we, as fans, are in extremely huge denial for the last 3-4 Seasons.

 

[serghei]

@BBZ8800, we don't need a coach to implement just FRESH ideas. We need a coach to implement GOOD FRESH ideas.

 

[Egert]

Luis Enrique: "Individual mistakes against PSG were decisive. Talked with squad, players individually, showed images. Everything is clear."

 

[Howlgrana]

Yes.
For some period, I was also "buying" stories from this forum, that coaches were bad, and that we "only" need to go back to our roots, and play triangles, run, move, press.

But, as the time goes by, it seems impossible.
We have to accept that we can only:
1. play a weaker version of Pep's era football, because:
a) goat midfielder Xavi is not the same, and no player in the world will be ever as good for our style/system as he was
b) Messi is not as good as 5 years ago
c) Iniesta also
d) other teams have learned how to neutralize us easier than back in those days
2. we can try to play some different, tweaked style
-- for example, more direct, or more wings oriented etc
-- but then, people (me also) are not satisfied because that style is not as pretty and not as lethal as Pep's style
-- then again, we always whine how we should go back to our roots, but again, that is impossible since we don't have Xavi, Messi and Iniesta in their prime and then we are again in troubles because we are playing a weaker version of Pep's style

It is not an easy problem and I also don't know what we should do, but people should stop saying that we should go back to our roots, play triangles and similar things like in those days.
That is impossible.
The goat Xavi is gone, and he WAS Barca, he was the brain, he was the leader of Tiki-Taka style and the only man on earth who can play it perfectly.
Also, Goat Messi who can score 1000s of Goals per Season is not here anymore.

So, it is hard to tell what the coaches should do. And should we (as fans) lower the expectations, accept our new, uglier playing styles and similar... :/

Decent points but Barca have been playing a more direct style since Tata and now with Lucho. And it hasn't been as effective. Of course, the reasons why Barca haven't been as successful recently are many, but I don't think simply playing a more direct style is the answer.

Against the big teams, like Vs PSG, Barca needed more control and possession. Perhaps a more direct style-of-play works most effectively against the smaller teams, to catch them out of position as they assemble in their wall behind the ball but without the counter-attack threat of the big sides.

 

[BBZ8800]

Decent points but Barca have been playing a more direct style since Tata and now with Lucho. And it hasn't been as effective. Of course, the reasons why Barca haven't been as successful recently are many, but I don't think simply playing a more direct style is the answer.

Against the big teams, like Vs PSG, Barca needed more control and possession. Perhaps a more direct style-of-play works most effectively against the smaller teams, to catch them out of position as they assemble in their wall behind the ball but without the counter-attack threat of the big sides.

I know, I am not saying that we need direct style or wings style.

1. Tiki-Taka style from the golden era is gone
-- we can only be a weaker copy of that style, and let's say, always getting knocked out in semis of CL
2. new current direct/style also isn't good enough YET, and it also isn't good enough to win CL
3. we should aim to find a new/tweaked style that will eventually, over time, be good enough to win CL (evolved/winning style from point no2)

As long as we are always trying to go back to point no1, we will never reach point no3, and we will always be stuck in between points no1 and no2 (either a weaker copy of Pep's style or a new system which isn't developed well enough because we are constantly switching back to a copy of Pep's style)

A vicious circle.

 

[Maria]

What Lucho exactly achieved as the coach to make you think he had fresh and smart ideas to begin with? I liked Lucho the player. So far Lucho the coach hasn't convinced me a bit. I think so far it was the players who lifted the team, not him. We will have a better image of the whole thing as the season progress, but personally I never expected much from him at the first place.

If the players lifted the team so far, then they are the ones who failed against PSG.

About the debate about movement, how we move less in the last few Seasons, I am seriously starting to think that our glory days and the goat movement of the whole team was working only when goat Xavi was in his prime.
There is no other player in the world who can move/play/pass/link like Xavi can.
When Xavi started to decline, all problems started (yes, we also had 1000 other problems, but still... maybe this one of the key factors for our decline in recent years)

Pep's and Xavi's era is gone.
We will need to build some new, different, slightly tweaked style. (and sadly, slightly less creative style)

I know, I am not saying that we need direct style or wings style.

1. Tiki-Taka style from the golden era is gone
-- we can only be a weaker copy of that style, and let's say, always getting knocked out in semis of CL
2. new current direct/style also isn't good enough YET, and it also isn't good enough to win CL
3. we should aim to find a new/tweaked style that will eventually, over time, be good enough to win CL (evolved/winning style from point no2)

As long as we are always trying to go back to point no1, we will never reach point no3, and we will always be stuck in between points no1 and no2 (either a weaker copy of Pep's style or a new system which isn't developed well enough because we are constantly switching back to a copy of Pep's style)

A vicious circle.

We managed to play pretty well in 2005-2006 without Xavi though..the way I see it, it's not only that we don't have someone like Xavi to organize our midfield, but also that instead of Marquez and Deco we have Mathieu and Rakitic and those 2 were very underwhelming in their first big game for Barca. And then there are Iniesta, Pique and Busi who are so far away from the form they showed in 2010-2011 that it's not even funny. The way I see it is that we can talk about styles and systems all we want, but unless those 5 step up and Alba&Alves will never play in a big game together again, I don't think that will be a major contender in the CL this season.

 

[serghei]

Luis Enrique: "Individual mistakes against PSG were decisive. Talked with squad, players individually, showed images. Everything is clear."

I bloody hope so.

 

[BBZ8800]

We managed to play pretty well in 2005-2006 without Xavi though..the way I see it, it's not only that we don't have someone like Xavi to organize our midfield, but also that instead of Marquez and Deco we have Mathieu and Rakitic and those 2 were very underwhelming in their first big game for Barca.

We didn't play Tiki-Taka with triangles back then.
We played a regular, attacking, possession based Barca/Brasil/Netherlands style of football, not too different from any Barca-Brasil-Netherlands style from 1990, 1995 or 2000.

So, today we can try/adapt some new version of possession/attacking football.
But we CAN'T play Tiki-Taka style from Pep's era. we don't have players for it anymore.

Attacking/Possession football was played and will be played even without Xavi.
But Tiki-Taka from Pep's era can be played perfectly only with Xavi at his prime and with Messi at his prime in the attack.

Also, if I remember correctly, Xavi was always a holder in Rijkaard's team.
In early Seasons, we had Xavi as one of Mcs and Motta as Dmc.

Motta was always injured (knee), so Marquez started to play as Dmc, and later Marquez and Edmilson played as Dmcs (Edmilson also suffered a knee injury, so this is why Marquez played as a Dmc).
In 2005-2006, our winning Season, Xavi also injured his knee in December 2005' and hasn't played till May.
And then Deco, Van Bommel and Iniesta played on 2 Mc positions as starters.

Anyway:
1. we played "just" a regular attacking football back then. We can replicate something like that today. But not Pep's Tiki-Taka.
2. plus, Xavi was ALWAYS a starter, even back then, except when he was injured

 

[linetty]

Lucho's been saying he wants the team less predictable. Right now all creativity is on Messi. It's pretty obvious Suarez will benefit from Leo and vice-versa, but Leo can't be the only source of creation, as it is now. Midfielders as fb babysitters is a waste. Lucho has to find a balance.

The thing is, just because you don't see any tactical variations it doesn't mean there aren't any.

 

[Flavia]

The thing is, just because you don't see any tactical variations it doesn't mean there aren't any.

Hmm... what? If there were tactical variations, anyone would be able to see them. That's the worst argument I've ever seen. Invisible variations... ok.

 

[Gaudi]

I know, I am not saying that we need direct style or wings style.

1. Tiki-Taka style from the golden era is gone
-- we can only be a weaker copy of that style, and let's say, always getting knocked out in semis of CL
2. new current direct/style also isn't good enough YET, and it also isn't good enough to win CL
3. we should aim to find a new/tweaked style that will eventually, over time, be good enough to win CL (evolved/winning style from point no2)

As long as we are always trying to go back to point no1, we will never reach point no3, and we will always be stuck in between points no1 and no2 (either a weaker copy of Pep's style or a new system which isn't developed well enough because we are constantly switching back to a copy of Pep's style)

A vicious circle.

Excelent post