Luis Enrique

M

maxmss

Guest
I really don't get this panic. This is the time when Lucho should try certain things and experiment. The classico wasn't horrible: all goals were scored from individual mistakes. He is developing his team and we should wait and see what is going to happen in the second half of the season. Whatever is happening right now means nothing. I remember Tito and Tata had fantastic first hald of the season and we were humiliated in the second half. Neither PSG game nor RM game was humiliation. And enough of this "bring back Pep" thing. Pep got schooled by Ancelotti last year.
 

ScoobySquats

New member
That's why I laugh on here when people say tiki-taka is dead, the German's are taking tiki-taka and running with it, almost both figuratively and literally.

The key to playing that brand of football is that all 11 players have to be tactically perfect at all times or else the system starts to crumble. More so than our legs or our personnel, our tactical sharpness is whats lacking the most and clearly that's because of Pep. His innovation and pragmatism is what allows him to develop highly technical and tactical teams that constantly out think their opponent because they are constantly thinking of the next move. All of that comes from tight organization in all areas of the pitch that squeezes the space in between the lines, so to make such an offense style work, all 11 must be on the same wavelength and working as one.

What I am curious to see from Lucho is what can he bring tactically to the table because now more than earlier is the time where his tactical nous will be truly tested. He has proven to be an excellent training coach, our team looks physically stronger than usual and we are playing with more pace and more tenacity which is why we started off so hot this season. But now is when we will start playing tougher games and with a tight race for La Liga now, any slip up will cost us. We have a solid foundation to build from and while our transition game still isn't as great as Pep's, it has improved.

We aren't light years behind Madrid like they were a few years ago, as Modric proved, even as Champions League holders they still have a slight psychological fear of us because they know what we are capable of. Madrid are simply more familiar with each other and right now have better chemistry while we are working out ours. Madrid will drop points away this season because their defense is still susceptible and they currently have a lot of space in between their MF and defensive lines that teams will exploit. So I'm not worried about Madrid, they will cool off eventually and they are extremely fortunate that Ronaldo has been virtually injury free his entire time at Madrid. A lengthy spell on the bench for Cristiano will cause Madrid a host of more problems than Messi would for us right now.

Lucho's style seems to be similar to Pep with its high-tempo energy and pressing but it seems both focus on different aspects of the game, Pep with more of the offensive side of the game while Lucho wants a solid defensive foundation that expresses itself from there. However, we continue to emulate certain offensive characteristics of Pep in 2010 that Pep of 2014 doesn't do anymore. One of the biggest things for me with this team that really grinds my gears is our insistence with using our fullbacks to provide width in attack. Its why you constantly see our attacking moves ending with a turnover cross from out wide and when that does happen, it leaves us woefully exposed on the counter attack. It was at times a 4 on 2 against Madrid and how they didn't score more on us is hard to believe. Pep learned this in his trashing last season which is why he is working with three at the back now. With how high our fullbacks play, we virtually play a 2-5-3 with a 4-3-3 defensive base. This is why I am suggesting we start playing Bartra in that RB role. I'm not saying he should start every game in that role because especially against La Liga teams, we can still play a 2-5-3 and get away with it because of our quality. But against better teams with offensive weapons, we need that extra defensive protection and by doing so, it will allow our attack to be more cohesive. We never won anything with Pep when we had two attacking fullbacks, it was always Abidal-Pique-Puyol-Dani at the back. Instead of a 2-5-3 with a 4-3-3 defensive base, its a 3-4-3 with a 4-3-3 defensive base, much easier to execute tactically on the field without headache. Look at it like this:


Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics

So to say if we split our team in half, our left side is our pace and direction while our right side is where we overload and play tiki-taka. By not having to continually cover for Dani's runs and with defensive support on the right side, Rakitic can focus on winning the ball in the midfield and sparking an attack from there. Then, since Messi naturally drifts to the right and Suarez dropping deep or shifting inside once Messi comes wide, it will drag their team in on the right to overcompensate which should open up more space for Neymar to create 1 on 1 opportunities with a defender. Like I said in the last post, the freedom it would allow Xavi as well would be immense for him. He could strictly focus on keeping the ball and creating scoring chances for a front three begging for service.

Bartra needs to be in the starting 11 now because we can't use Mascherano in the back anymore, Pique still seems to be lost in lala land, and Verm is still injured. Him rotating between the RCB role and RB role would offer this team a lot. Believe it or not I think Pique would welcome this as well because it would give him a defensive partner to shut down the right side and make his job much easier than trying to cover the space Dani leaves in behind.

Cheers by the way! Always glad to get positive feedback!


Really good analysis. +1
Alba for me should always start of Alves simply because he has the pace and desire to not jog back and help defense, but instead make his little legs run as fast as he can. Messi has enough interplay with Suarez and Neymar alone to provide passing outlets, no to mention it'd allow Rakitic to not baby sit Alves and contribute much more to the offensive play and buildup
 

KingMessi

SiempreBlaugrana
Really good analysis. +1
Alba for me should always start of Alves simply because he has the pace and desire to not jog back and help defense, but instead make his little legs run as fast as he can. Messi has enough interplay with Suarez and Neymar alone to provide passing outlets, no to mention it'd allow Rakitic to not baby sit Alves and contribute much more to the offensive play and buildup

It also makes it so that our central midfielders play more centrally, linking up with each other better now that they don't have to cover for 2 fullbacks pushing forward.
 

MagIX

Senior Member
@BBZ8800 : excellent analysis as usual, i totally agree with you.


So we basically need someone with really big balls to break the Pep era style we are stuck in chasing shadows of the past.
I have this fearful feeling we will have to be patient for 2016 with new board along with a new era with major changes.
Such a waste, this generation had atleast one more cl in it with the right board/transfers/coaches/motivation.

very true and very sad at the same time.
 

Kohe321

New member
That's why I laugh on here when people say tiki-taka is dead, the German's are taking tiki-taka and running with it, almost both figuratively and literally.

The key to playing that brand of football is that all 11 players have to be tactically perfect at all times or else the system starts to crumble. More so than our legs or our personnel, our tactical sharpness is whats lacking the most and clearly that's because of Pep. His innovation and pragmatism is what allows him to develop highly technical and tactical teams that constantly out think their opponent because they are constantly thinking of the next move. All of that comes from tight organization in all areas of the pitch that squeezes the space in between the lines, so to make such an offense style work, all 11 must be on the same wavelength and working as one.

What I am curious to see from Lucho is what can he bring tactically to the table because now more than earlier is the time where his tactical nous will be truly tested. He has proven to be an excellent training coach, our team looks physically stronger than usual and we are playing with more pace and more tenacity which is why we started off so hot this season. But now is when we will start playing tougher games and with a tight race for La Liga now, any slip up will cost us. We have a solid foundation to build from and while our transition game still isn't as great as Pep's, it has improved.

We aren't light years behind Madrid like they were a few years ago, as Modric proved, even as Champions League holders they still have a slight psychological fear of us because they know what we are capable of. Madrid are simply more familiar with each other and right now have better chemistry while we are working out ours. Madrid will drop points away this season because their defense is still susceptible and they currently have a lot of space in between their MF and defensive lines that teams will exploit. So I'm not worried about Madrid, they will cool off eventually and they are extremely fortunate that Ronaldo has been virtually injury free his entire time at Madrid. A lengthy spell on the bench for Cristiano will cause Madrid a host of more problems than Messi would for us right now.

Lucho's style seems to be similar to Pep with its high-tempo energy and pressing but it seems both focus on different aspects of the game, Pep with more of the offensive side of the game while Lucho wants a solid defensive foundation that expresses itself from there. However, we continue to emulate certain offensive characteristics of Pep in 2010 that Pep of 2014 doesn't do anymore. One of the biggest things for me with this team that really grinds my gears is our insistence with using our fullbacks to provide width in attack. Its why you constantly see our attacking moves ending with a turnover cross from out wide and when that does happen, it leaves us woefully exposed on the counter attack. It was at times a 4 on 2 against Madrid and how they didn't score more on us is hard to believe. Pep learned this in his trashing last season which is why he is working with three at the back now. With how high our fullbacks play, we virtually play a 2-5-3 with a 4-3-3 defensive base. This is why I am suggesting we start playing Bartra in that RB role. I'm not saying he should start every game in that role because especially against La Liga teams, we can still play a 2-5-3 and get away with it because of our quality. But against better teams with offensive weapons, we need that extra defensive protection and by doing so, it will allow our attack to be more cohesive. We never won anything with Pep when we had two attacking fullbacks, it was always Abidal-Pique-Puyol-Dani at the back. Instead of a 2-5-3 with a 4-3-3 defensive base, its a 3-4-3 with a 4-3-3 defensive base, much easier to execute tactically on the field without headache. Look at it like this:


Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics

So to say if we split our team in half, our left side is our pace and direction while our right side is where we overload and play tiki-taka. By not having to continually cover for Dani's runs and with defensive support on the right side, Rakitic can focus on winning the ball in the midfield and sparking an attack from there. Then, since Messi naturally drifts to the right and Suarez dropping deep or shifting inside once Messi comes wide, it will drag their team in on the right to overcompensate which should open up more space for Neymar to create 1 on 1 opportunities with a defender. Like I said in the last post, the freedom it would allow Xavi as well would be immense for him. He could strictly focus on keeping the ball and creating scoring chances for a front three begging for service.

Bartra needs to be in the starting 11 now because we can't use Mascherano in the back anymore, Pique still seems to be lost in lala land, and Verm is still injured. Him rotating between the RCB role and RB role would offer this team a lot. Believe it or not I think Pique would welcome this as well because it would give him a defensive partner to shut down the right side and make his job much easier than trying to cover the space Dani leaves in behind.

Cheers by the way! Always glad to get positive feedback!

Yet again a great tactical analasys! :hooray:

I was sort of hoping that when he started Mathieu in the clasico we'd see something similar only with Dani Alves being the one allowed to attack, but we all remember how that oddly enough wasn't the case. I agree that attacking with two fullbacks at the time should stop now, among many things it also very often leads to a pass finding it's way to either side and having to be crossed in order to not kill the momentum with a backpass. This is happening way to often now, especially on Danis flank, and often leads to very dangerous turnovers that top teams take advantage of. Also, as KingMessi states, our midfielders have to cover for both our LB and RB going up, which stretches them out leading to less midfield control and fast link-up play, and leaves dangerous space for counters (even if it defensively works against weaker sides). It's becoming very easy to read for our opponents and it's just not good for us.
 

Stric

New member
Wonderfully said by Raskolnikov. This generation of players was capable of much more but their years are being wasted by incompetent managers. This is a historic waste.

Lucho is making it more difficult to support him every day. This club is not his personal ego feeder.
 

gatsu

New member
@i_bleed_blaugrana

Very good post.

While i perfectly agree with the midfield formation, i think that by over securing the right wing we will considerably weaken our offensive options, why?

Although we have the best line of forwards in the world, Messi is still our overall best player by far, and I still think that any tactical disposition must be made by first taking into consideration the Argentinean, Messi must be in perfect conditions to express all of his potential, which can be achieved by offensively optimizing the areas where he is at his best (the middle and the right wing), to attain such aim, whenever he receives the ball he must have at least 3 support players (Xavi, Neymar, Alves and Suarez in the middle and Alves, Suarez, Xavi on the wing), basically by offering him multiple options to initiate specific plays ( triangle games, one/two, rush, etc.), in my vision Alves is more of an offensive midfielder (pretty sure that it was Lucho’s Idea when he tought about bringing Guadrado), covered by Rakitic, Mascherano and Bartra.

As for the defensive line, Alba can perfectly play the Abidal role in à 3 men's defense.
 

i_bleed_blaugrana

Senior Member
@i_bleed_blaugrana

Very good post.

While i perfectly agree with the midfield formation, i think that by over securing the right wing we will considerably weaken our offensive options, why?

Although we have the best line of forwards in the world, Messi is still our overall best player by far, and I still think that any tactical disposition must be made by first taking into consideration the Argentinean, Messi must be in perfect conditions to express all of his potential, which can be achieved by offensively optimizing the areas where he is at his best (the middle and the right wing), to attain such aim, whenever he receives the ball he must have at least 3 support players (Xavi, Neymar, Alves and Suarez in the middle and Alves, Suarez, Xavi on the wing), basically by offering him multiple options to initiate specific plays ( triangle games, one/two, rush, etc.), in my vision Alves is more of an offensive midfielder (pretty sure that it was Lucho’s Idea when he tought about bringing Guadrado), covered by Rakitic, Mascherano and Bartra.

As for the defensive line, Alba can perfectly play the Abidal role in à 3 men's defense.

Messi naturally drifts to the right as games wear on which is specifically why Suarez was bought. Ideally, Messi and Suarez will constantly be interchanging from the center to the right and back to the center, it just depends on where the opponents put pressure. Especially if teams try to clog the middle and wall Messi out when he gets the ball, him pulling to the right will shift their lines as well, which opens up space for the left side.

This is partially why I am suggest we use Xavi in a more advanced role, with him having a free role in the center behind the front three, he is available in the center to help Messi recycle possession or play a quick through to either Neymar/Alba on the left or Suarez from the right. It puts in him in the best position to do what he does best.

I disagree with that last statement however. In a three center-back system, height is priority number one because their job is to lock down the center part of the field from the goalies box to the half circle and with how much teams cross against us these days, we would get burned a lot on backdoor crosses to Alba's side. We got away with against Milan (miraculously) but that isn't a long term solution.

All I am merely suggesting is that we switch Alba to the offensive midfielder and do similar tactics to Pep's 08-09 team, except with Alba as Dani and Bartra as Abidal. If we want to field both Alves and Alba at the same time, there are better formations that are well suited to how we play and how teams try to exploit us and this 2-5-3 non-sense isn't one of them.
 

Kasperroed

New member
3-4-3 is the solution, get rid of Alves. Mathieu and Alba can play like Bayern's Alaba and Bernat.

Who would you put on the bench? Iniesta or Rackitic?

Nevertheless i have to admit that i agree with you. I just don't know how we can fit Iniesta, Rafinha and Xavi into that formation.
 
F

Flavia

Guest
Who would you put on the bench? Iniesta or Rackitic?

Nevertheless i have to admit that i agree with you. I just don't know how we can fit Iniesta, Rafinha and Xavi into that formation.

With a 3-4-3, neither Iniesta nor Rakitic would be benched. No need to play both Xavi and Iniesta, either. The 4 could be Masch, Busi, Rakitic and Iniesta. But for that to work, we'd need wingers. I don't know if it's doable now.
 

Kasperroed

New member
Code:
With a 3-4-3, neither Iniesta nor Rakitic would be benched. No need to play both Xavi and Iniesta, either. The 4 could be Masch, Busi, Rakitic and Iniesta. But for that to work, we'd need wingers. I don't know if it's doable now.

Alba and Pedro? Rackitic and Busquets central and Masche in defence?
 

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