Luis Suárez

[JamDav1982]

Messi won't stick to the right wing though because he doesn't run enough to play as a winger but still come inside when the situation is right. Messi as a "right winger" is basically just playing a 4231 while he stands around the #10 space and the RCM goes out to the wing all day to cover him

In that second half of luchos first season he held his position and ran off the ball more so than normal.

The best he and Barca have been in the CL.

 

[JamDav1982]

Messi was on the right when there was Alves, now he has to combine with Roberto, huge difference.

Also now there's no Neymar, so Messi on the right means that he touches the ball less and the team isn't creative enough without Messi.

The team is not creative enough with Messi centrally as they all defer to him and it is one dimensional give ball to Messi and hope he opens up opposition for most part.

That season Barca won as devestating on the break more than any Alves build up play although that would be impossible to repeat.

Sitck to 442 otherwise.

Messi false nine is non starter.

 

[Stoichkov1]

The team is not creative enough with Messi centrally as they all defer to him and it is one dimensional give ball to Messi and hope he opens up opposition for most part.

That season Barca won as devestating on the break more than any Alves build up play although that would be impossible to repeat.

The team wouldn't be creative enough with Messi on the right either as the players aren't good enough in the final third, plain and simple.

 

[MessiCam]

Yeah but in 2011 we had Pedro and Villa who understood the system, now we have two completely new players

Messi false 9 is too predictable, especially when Barca plays against big teams. In 2013 when Messi false 9 stopped working we just passed the ball sideways for 90 mins without creating a single chance

Messi scored 60 goals, 15 assists in 2012/13 and 41 goals, 14 assists in 2013/14 which was an injury hit season. The False 9’s demise was greatly exaggerated because Tata made it a point to not give Messi the ball as much in that year too. Which was both wise and silly in my opinion.

Also Pedro and Villa are never going to demand the attention of Coutinho and Dembélé in terms of marking.

Look, we can debate this all we want because everybody has their own ideas as to what is best. I just don’t see another way forward other than a False 9 (which was the original idea and which has been used from time to time this year) or as Jamdav says a 4-4-2.

 

[Joan]

Coutinho Griezmann Messi would for sure be good enough.

 

[JamDav1982]

The team wouldn't be creative enough with Messi on the right either as the players aren't good enough in the final third, plain and simple.

Dont agree and Messi can create in final third from RW.

How creative Barca been in CL with Messi central the past 4/5 seasons?

The reason there are less creative players centrally is because Messi is given that role and they all just give him the ball. It is killing the midfield.

 

[MessiCam]

The team is not creative enough with Messi centrally as they all defer to him and it is one dimensional give ball to Messi and hope he opens up opposition for most part.

That season Barca won as devestating on the break more than any Alves build up play although that would be impossible to repeat.

Sitck to 442 otherwise.

Messi false nine is non starter.

So who is the creative force centrally then?

 

[Stoichkov1]

Messi scored 60 goals, 15 assists in 2012/13 and 41 goals, 14 assists in 2013/14 which was an injury hit season. The False 9’s demise was greatly exaggerated because Tata made it a point to not give Messi the ball as much in that year too. Which was both wise and silly in my opinion.

Also Pedro and Villa are never going to demand the attention of Coutinho and Dembélé in terms of marking.

Look, we can debate this all we want because everybody has their own ideas as to what is best. I just don’t see another way forward other than a False 9 (which was the original idea and which has been used from time to time this year) or as Jamdav says a 4-4-2.

Who cares about how many goals Messi scored? Barca had some of the worst performances in CL, Milan away in 2013, PSG home and the 7-0 against Bayern, in 2014 we didn't have a shot on target against Atletico.

I still think we need a striker like Kane or Firmino who are miles better than Suarez at the moment. With a player like Kane we could also try to cross the ball instead of passing it for 90 mins like monkeys.

 

[DonAndres]

Who cares about how many goals Messi scored? Barca had some of the worst performances in CL, Milan away in 2013, PSG home and the 7-0 against Bayern, in 2014 we didn't have a shot on target against Atletico.

I still think we need a striker like Kane or Firmino who are miles better than Suarez at the moment. With a player like Kane we could also try to cross the ball instead of passing it for 90 mins like monkeys.

Why would you take Kane over Griezmann? The ability to score headers is so fucking overrated. Even at his very best Suarez was hardly a consistent threat in aerial duels.

What you want in a striker (outside of being a good scorer) is mobility and associative play, both of which Griezmann excels at much like Firmino. He'd stretch the pitch vertically for Messi and be able to drift/switch positions when needed.

 

[JamDav1982]

So who is the creative force centrally then?

Coutinho and/or sign a player that has the freedom to try and dictate and probe not just win ball and look for Messi.

Even then could be Coutinho on left and front three are still the creative force and can come central at times.

But midfield needs to be where ball is dictated and used to find the attacking players in better positions. Not just left to Messi to try and dribble or split the defence or not much else happens.

Messi is not a play maker that Barca need in my opinion. He needs to be in final third more.

 

[Stoichkov1]

Why would you take Kane over Griezmann? The ability to score headers is so fucking overrated. Even at his very best Suarez was hardly a consistent threat in aerial duels.

What you want in a striker (outside of being a good scorer) is mobility and associative play, both of which Griezmann excels at much like Firmino. He'd stretch the pitch vertically for Messi and be able to drift/switch positions when needed.

The ability to score headers isn't overrated. Madrid are gonna win their 3rd CL in a row and they cross the ball for 90 mins, just like Bayern, while in CL we barely have a shot on target when we play away.

Griezmann is a great player but I repeat he is not a striker and he plays in Messi's position at Atletico.

 

[Barca83]

Who cares about how many goals Messi scored? Barca had some of the worst performances in CL, Milan away in 2013, PSG home and the 7-0 against Bayern, in 2014 we didn't have a shot on target against Atletico.

I still think we need a striker like Kane or Firmino who are miles better than Suarez at the moment. With a player like Kane we could also try to cross the ball instead of passing it for 90 mins like monkeys.

1. Messi was barely half fit vs Bayern, he started on the bench vs PSG at home, and he played right wing vs Atletico in 2014

2. Atletico 2016, PSG away 2017, Juve home and away 2017 all happened with Messi at right wing

 

[JamDav1982]

The ability to score headers isn't overrated. Madrid are gonna win their 3rd CL in a row and they cross the ball for 90 mins, just like Bayern, while in CL we barely have a shot on target when we play away.

Griezmann is a great player but I repeat he is not a striker and he plays in Messi's position at Atletico.

Griezmann does not play same position as Messi or in same way.

 

[JamDav1982]

1. Messi was barely half fit vs Bayern, he started on the bench vs PSG at home, and he played right wing vs Atletico in 2014

2. Atletico 2016, PSG away 2017, Juve home and away 2017 all happened with Messi at right wing

Messi did not play on the wing in those games. He was more central for most part.

 

[DonAndres]

The ability to score headers isn't overrated. Madrid are gonna win their 3rd CL in a row and they cross the ball for 90 mins, just like Bayern, while in CL we barely have a shot on target when we play away.

Griezmann is a great player but I repeat he is not a striker and he plays in Messi's position at Atletico.

You're crazy if you think we're gonna win CL playing Madrid style crossing for 90 minutes. We'd have to literally revamp the entire starting lineup to make something like that viable. Barca has never won being reliant on crosses and long deliveries into the box for headers. It's much better and more realistic to win games in our way rather than theirs.

How is he not a striker? Cause he's been playing with Costa or Gameiro??? He drops back sometimes but in Barca's system he is ideally going to be the most advanced player and that's where he would excel. Firmino is also this "pseudo-false 9" type player you seem to be referring to, look at how well he combines with Salah and creates space for him, a Messi-esque player. Griezmann plays nothing like Messi and does not operate in the same zones or situations as he does.