Vilarrubi
New member
Exactly lol
If Griezmann is a bad finisher then what is Suarez.. love to see both of their shot/goal ratio's.
Luis Suárez
- Thread starter jj_101
- Start date
Exactly lol
If Griezmann is a bad finisher then what is Suarez.. love to see both of their shot/goal ratio's.
DennyCrane
Senior Member
No one knows what to think of him. Sometimes you see him Emile Heskeying for an entire match (or half a season), then he turns into R9 seemingly at random. Complete enigma.
#CantMoveDoesntNeedTo (which I haven't stolen from meta's twitter at all)
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FCBfan22
Senior Member
Surprise, surprise... Defensively obsessed BBZ doesn't mention defensive workrate difference between Griezmann and Suarez, so he can still be the contrarian...
Amazing.
The fact is that we won't win CL defending with 8 outfield players (since Leo and Luis don't defend). We will get shafted in the knockouts against teams with very high work rate.
If Valverde was smart, he would be playing Dembele/Fati-Messi/Surez-Griezmann in away games, simply because we would shut down the opponent's flanks better...
I'd sell him tomorrow. His CL away record is embarrassing for a Barca striker.
The only time he looks like an actual footballer is with Messi setting them up for him.
Flashes of tehnique here and there but honestly you could play R9 up front even now and he'd offer as much.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Lel.
Anyway.
Stats:
2018/19 La Liga:
Suarez 109 shots, 21 goals=5,19 shots needed for 1 goal
Griezmann 110 shots, 15 goals=7,33 shots needed for 1 goal
This season, La Liga and a CL:
Suarez 17 shots, 5 goals=3,4 shots needed for 1 goal
Griezmann 23 shots, 3 goals=7,67 shots needed for 1 goal
If you check stats from La Liga 2018/19 and 7-8 matches for Barca this season (last 15 Months), you get a total:
Suarez 126 shots, 26 goals=4,84 shots needed for 1 goal
Griezmann 133 shots, 18 goals=7,39 shots needed for 1 goal
Griezz in 5 years for Atletico: 257 matches, 133 goals+ Barca 9 matches, 3 goals
8 goals from free kicks
10 goals from penalty kicks
= total: 266 matches, 118 goals from an open play
Suarez, 6 seasons at Barca:
254 matches, 182 goals:
9 penalty kick goals
1 free kick goal
= total: 254 matches, 172 goals from an open play in the last 5+1 seasons
= Suarez will score a goal from an open play each 130-ish minutes
= Griezmann will score a goal from an open play each 202 minutes
Over 38 rounds, stats estimate that:
Suarez will score around 26 goals from an open play in La Liga season.
Griezmann will score around 17 goals from an open play in La Liga season.
Some will reply: Suarez played for Barca and Griezz for Atletico.
Fine.
But Suarez banged 61 goals in 81 matches for Liverpool in his last 2 seasons.
Also, for Uruguay, Suarez has 111 matches, 58 goals=goal each 170 minutes roughly
Griezmann has 74 matches for France, 29 goals=again a goal each 230 minutes.
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So, in short:
1. Suarez has more lethal finishing than Griezmann THIS season
2. Suarez had more lethal finishing than Griezmann in the LAST season
3. Suarez has way more lethal finishing than Griezmann in the last 8 seasons in a row in club competitions
4. Suarez has more lethal finishing than Griezmann in NT matches
For the end, look at their career total stats:
Suarez: 616 matches, 402 goals
Griezmann: 467 matches, 188 goals
Ok, Suarez is 4 years older, but still, he scored more than double amount of goals than Griezz in his career.
Suarez might be fat, old, slow, annoying, horrible passer, yelling at everyone, ruining a build up play and similar.
But in terms of finishing, it is a blasphemy to even mention Suarez and Griezmann in the same sentence.
I was mentioning defending for midfielders when we had too offensive teams, like with light midfielders or under Lucho.
Today we have more than enough of defending as a team.
We don't need MORE workhorses and defenders.
Ok, for a CL semis maybe. But our main problem currently is attacking, creating chances and scoring even against teams like Granada and Osasuna.
So, for me, when you consider team's needs in this moment: Suarez>Griezmann.
If we had 4-5 crazy scorers in our team (like prime MSN), plus 1 CAM who is banging 20 goals per season, then we could survive with a CF who works more and scores less.
But in a current state, Suarez is our only scorer besides Messi.
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Vilarrubi
New member
lol not sure where you got your stats from, feel free to post, but according to whoscored.com:
Suarez 18/19 + 19/20 shots = 198
Suarez 18/19 + 19/20 goals = 31
Shots per goal = 6.38
Griezmann 18/19 + 19/20 shots = 189
Griezmann 18/19 + 19/20 goals = 28
Shots per goal = 6.75
In fact they are more or less the same, I presumed Griezmann would have a much better ratio than Suarez BUT you described Griezmann as a bad finisher and inconsistent which is also bullshit.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Link from 2018/19:
https://www.foxsports.com/soccer/stats?competition=2&season=20180&category=STANDARD
Regarding your stats where it says that Suarez scored 31 and Griezz 28, Wikipedia says:
La Liga 2018/19:
21:15 for Suarez
CDR:
3:2 for Suarez
CL:
4:1 for Griezmann
Total last season (Wikipedia):
25:21 for Suarez
Total this season:
5:3 for Suarez
= 30:24 for Suarez
Your stats say that Griezz has 28 goals, so probably they are counting NT Matches.
My stats from this season are from Whoscored.
I clicked match statistics and manually counted shots and goals in La Liga+CL this season, and you have:
Suarez 17 shots, 5 goals=3,4 shots needed for 1 goal
Griezmann 23 shots, 3 goals=7,67 shots needed for 1 goal
Further, for example, in this article:
https://sportstar.thehindu.com/football/antoine-griezmann-moves-to-barcelona-career-in-atletico-madrid-in-numbers-football-opta-statistics/article28415742.ece
They say that:
Griezmann said:
This article talks about 13,64 percentage of his goals/shots in La Liga, which is the same as from my article from above (110 shots and 15 goals=13,64 percentage conversion and 7,33 shots needed for 1 goal).
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Btw, another thing about Griezmann as a No9 instead of Suarez:
Last season he scored 15 goals in 37 La Liga matches.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/antoine-griezmann/alletore/spieler/125781
Yet, out of 15 La Liga goals, he scored:
Penalty kicks against Sociedad, Espanyol and Levante.
And direct free kicks against Leganes and Sevilla.
Which means that he scored only 10 "true" goals from an open play in 37 matches.
Whoscored says that he played 3204 minutes in La Liga in the last season.
That means that he needed 320 minutes last season for 1 La liga goal from an open play.
That is more than 3 and a half matches on average needed for 1 goal.
I know that you guys hate a current Suarez from the bottom of your heart, but that won't turn Griezmann into a lethal scorer.
He was always a weird supportive/playmaker attacker-Cam for counterattacking teams.
He is slow, he is short, he can't dribble, and as stats say: he is not a lethal finisher.
Suarez had 8 seasons in his career with more than 20 league goals:
40 (2016 Barcelona)
35 (2010 Ajax)
31 (2014 Liverpool)
29 (2017 Barcelona)
25 (2018 Barcelona)
23 (2013 Liverpool)
22 (2009 Ajax)
21 (2019 Barcelona)
Griezmann:
22 (2015 Atletico)
22 (2016 Atletico)
My posts may sound as if I hate Griezmann.
No.
I also wanted him here.
But I never believed that he will be a No9 due to his physical skills, pace and low number of goals.
I had hopes that he will be a good hybrid LW-SS, like CR7.
But that isn't happening for now.
Also, in some posts it sounds as if we bought a crazy killer in the box and only a blind EV can't see how good he is as a No9, while in reality we bought a guy who was never world class due to his finishing skills but more to his weird combo of playmaking as a second striker and scoring a nice amount of goals (but not some crazy numbers).
Due to his playmaking skills, my last hope for him is to try him at Iniesta's role.
Last season he scored 15 goals in 37 La Liga matches.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/antoine-griezmann/alletore/spieler/125781
Yet, out of 15 La Liga goals, he scored:
Penalty kicks against Sociedad, Espanyol and Levante.
And direct free kicks against Leganes and Sevilla.
Which means that he scored only 10 "true" goals from an open play in 37 matches.
Whoscored says that he played 3204 minutes in La Liga in the last season.
That means that he needed 320 minutes last season for 1 La liga goal from an open play.
That is more than 3 and a half matches on average needed for 1 goal.
I know that you guys hate a current Suarez from the bottom of your heart, but that won't turn Griezmann into a lethal scorer.
He was always a weird supportive/playmaker attacker-Cam for counterattacking teams.
He is slow, he is short, he can't dribble, and as stats say: he is not a lethal finisher.
Suarez had 8 seasons in his career with more than 20 league goals:
40 (2016 Barcelona)
35 (2010 Ajax)
31 (2014 Liverpool)
29 (2017 Barcelona)
25 (2018 Barcelona)
23 (2013 Liverpool)
22 (2009 Ajax)
21 (2019 Barcelona)
Griezmann:
22 (2015 Atletico)
22 (2016 Atletico)
My posts may sound as if I hate Griezmann.
No.
I also wanted him here.
But I never believed that he will be a No9 due to his physical skills, pace and low number of goals.
I had hopes that he will be a good hybrid LW-SS, like CR7.
But that isn't happening for now.
Also, in some posts it sounds as if we bought a crazy killer in the box and only a blind EV can't see how good he is as a No9, while in reality we bought a guy who was never world class due to his finishing skills but more to his weird combo of playmaking as a second striker and scoring a nice amount of goals (but not some crazy numbers).
Due to his playmaking skills, my last hope for him is to try him at Iniesta's role.
Potroh
New member
You know that hardly anyone can say I had been an avid admirer of BBZ's stats-based posts, but this time he is absolutely right.
BBZ says he wanted Griez here, well I did not. But this time that's the only difference.
Griez more or less plays the Messi-role, hence he simply has no viable place in this very team.
Messi was injured, has no fitness due to lack of pre-season, so it would have been logical to play Griez in Messi's place. But EV is cognitively weak to realize stuff like that.
That's why he says imbecile things like "he plays in the left because he is left-footed" or the recent gem: "...Up front". These are gems indeed, clearly showing that this gentleman just has very limited knowledge. Anyway...
After years, Suarez scored two (nice) goals in CL, which means he will play. Of course the best solution for him would be to play 25-30 minutes and nothing more, but it will hardly happen.
But everyone has to be aware that Suarez is not fit for combination-play anymore, even if time to time he can score.
An absolutely static tactical play results in important question to be answered, but EV will never do anything. That's why the actual dilemma because Griez will not play as CF, Suarez will not be benched, so the attacking decline will continue, regardless a few better games.
Suarez will have one good game in five (only when he scores because he is useless by now for anything else), Griez will continue to play in a game that is nothing to do with his one, and both Dembele and Fati will get a few minutes in best case.
Apart from the board and a few blind fans, everyone knows that this year will be marked by the general decline of this team (just as I predicted back in April, before the Anfield game) and hence nothing else but up and downs will mark this present Barca, which is actually playing a type of game (Messi is always the exception) that is hugely outdated.
BTW, Griezmann is not suited for the Iniesta-role my dear BBZ.
clemente
New member
lmao so much time wasted just to troll, desperate statistics grab that say nothing, if 7,33 is a bad finisher, then Ronaldo with 8.13 is even worse than a bad finisher? Garbage finisher?
BBZ8800
Senior Member
1. In general, a goal is to have a lethal finisher who doesn't need 7, 8 or 10 shots to score 1 goal
2. Unless if that player is somehow getting into 10 chances per match, so he is still scoring 1 goal per match, inspite of missing tons of chances
Griezmann both:
1. Needs too many shots to score
2. And isn't getting into too many chances per match like Salah or younger CR7, due to his (Griezmann) weak pace, weakish physique, being short and having bad dribbling skills.
He can't create a chance on his own with dribbling his way through 4 defenders like Messi or Neymar.
He can't get into space to receive a through ball on counters like Salah or Mane.
He can't get into 5-10 chances per match due to his physique and positioning like CR7.
Basically, he relies on his teammates to set him opportunities, and once when he gets into those chances, his finishing rate is quite average for the highest level.
Not to mention that he seems to be even slower this season than in the past.
And his finishing rate has dropped in the last 16 Months.
What is trolling in my post?
The only problem is that you probably hate Suarez and you want another player.
But your wish and sadness won't turn Griezmann into a lethal finisher.
In general, we need a replacement for Suarez.
But Griezmann surely won't be that guy.
If you want to win titles, of course.
If you want a 3rd place in La liga and a pattern or results: 2:1, 0:0, 2:0, 0:1, 1:1, 0:0, Griezz will be a good striker for you.
Messigician
Senior Member
I was against this clown from the beginning. Suarez is much better than Greasemam
MTL_Barca
Well-known member
Well the thing is Griezmann pretty much has to be turned into a 9, or the team needs a change of formation. Otherwise it's more or less just another Coutinho situation.
Buying him just to play him as LW next to old Suarez and Messi in Ernies 433 was/is bound to be a failure - at least if we consider his general quality (and price). That also wouldn't be a long term solution.
There also isn't a Suarez replacement. Not in the squad and even next summer it'll be difficult, i don't think Barca will be able to just buy the next Suarez. There was (and probably still is) interest in Neymar though, what would only leave Suarez' spot for him anyway.
Buying him just to play him as LW next to old Suarez and Messi in Ernies 433 was/is bound to be a failure - at least if we consider his general quality (and price). That also wouldn't be a long term solution.
There also isn't a Suarez replacement. Not in the squad and even next summer it'll be difficult, i don't think Barca will be able to just buy the next Suarez. There was (and probably still is) interest in Neymar though, what would only leave Suarez' spot for him anyway.
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clemente
New member
How does Griezzman always score against Madrid? Pretty much gave us a push every season to settle the title all by himself. Pull up the videos with statistics of how he didn't create a chance of his own, it took him many chances to score, how he couldn't get into space for a through ball, and how his positioning was bad?
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