Luis Suárez

[El Gato]

that shit doesnt matter if we are 10 points behind the league leader in january (which is about the same as already having lost the title) and if we are so bad we get destroyed 3-0 by a meh juventus side. or are you happy with all those non-converted chances and sitting in 3rd place

lets live in the real world folks

Nobody is or should be happy with non-converted chances. Point is, they are there and Barca would be higher in scoring tables and in points if more talented CF or good wide finisher (Fati) helping carry the bulk of scoring was at their disposal. Doesn't mean defense would stop being an issue, but attack is not. At least for now while Messi is still here contributing just enough at this point in his career.

That does not also mean selling Suarez was wrong. It wasn't. Not from financial or sporting POV

 

[BarcaOG]

No.. assuming Suarez and Messi together would be same as last season and imbalance the team with two players would have to cover for.

Again your point fails be assumption only difference is Suarez finishing and not the impact having both Suarez/Messi has on shape of team.

His stats were decent last season... but Barca won more games when Messi and Suarez did not start together and can see how much the rest of the team is playing with more freedom than having to play for two old legs in front line.

Good on him at Atletico. They can play to give him that freedom and cover for his lack of legs until can get chances in and around box.

On what evidence or assumptions are you concluding that, with a new coach in Koemann, and a different set of instructions/tactics, Suarez would have the same 'damaging' impact on the team as he did, as you claim, last year? He clearly has responded to a new coach and a new environment in Atleti. Why couldnt that be the case here?

The problem is that you are just extrapolating from last season, assuming it would be the same, even though we have a new coach and so a new situation. nothing warrants that assumption

 

[Joan]

Barca winning more with one of them off is not as strong as it sounds. Odd season with a break, best players resting against weak, playing strong teams etc.

 

[JamDav1982]

On what evidence or assumptions are you concluding that, with a new coach in Koemann, and a different set of instructions/tactics, Suarez would have the same 'damaging' impact on the team as he did, as you claim, last year? He clearly has responded to a new coach and a new environment in Atleti. Why couldnt that be the case here?

The problem is that you are just extrapolating from last season, assuming it would be the same, even though we have a new coach and so a new situation. nothing warrants that assumption

He has responded in Atleti as they are not covering two old legs.

Problem is you want to ignore last season and make up scenarios where team play same this year but Suarez to finish. Complete fantasy.

Good move on both parts to move on.

 

[JamDav1982]

Barca winning more with one of them off is not as strong as it sounds. Odd season with a break, best players resting against weak, playing strong teams etc.

Not the case. Go look at the fixtures.

Neither were really being rested due to easier fixtures and it includes games away to Real which Suarez didnt play so it is the opposite really.

 

[Joan]

Not the case. Go look at the fixtures.

Neither were really being rested due to easier fixtures and it includes games away to Real which Suarez didnt play so it is the opposite really.

Yeah, I did look at the fixtures and did the math and Barca won 42 points with both Messi and Suarez starting and 40 when not (one or both off).

Also, Suarez taken off while Barca up only to lose later etc.

True they weren't rested, was taking a guess.

Interesting, same number of fixtures. 19 with both of them starting, 19 with at least one off.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yeah, I did look at the fixtures and did the math and Barca won 42 points with both Messi and Suarez starting and 40 when not (one or both off).

Also, Suarez taken off while Barca up only to lose later etc.

True they weren't rested, was taking a guess.

Interesting, same number of fixtures. 19 with both of them starting, 19 with at least one off.

In games where they didnt start together and Suarez out.

Edit: it is games with Suarez starting and not starting.

 

[Joan]

Lazy to look twice, but Barca still had to win more points with Suarez starting than not. If my numbers add up.

Anyways, it's rather close and still won more points with both him and Messi than not in the same amount of games.

All silly comparisons, but won more points with both Messi and Suarez starting (which is a big no, it seems) than in 19 games this season.

We don't know what would or wouldn't happen, but it's not unreasonable to asume Barca would make a stronger challenge for the league with Suarez than without him. Despite defence being an issue.

If we got a younger striker who promised, wouldn't hear much about it. Braithwaite's got almost 900 minutes in the league for us.

 

[JamDav1982]

Lazy to look twice, but Barca still had to win more points with Suarez starting than not. If my numbers add up.

Anyways, it's rather close and still won more points with both him and Messi than not in the same amount of games.

All silly comparisons, but won more points with both Messi and Suarez starting (which is a big no, it seems) than in 19 games this season.

We don't know what would or wouldn't happen, but it's not unreasonable to asume Barca would make a stronger challenge for the league with Suarez than without him. Despite defence being an issue.

If we got a younger striker who promised, wouldn't hear much about it. Braithwaite's got almost 900 minutes in the league for us.

From my numbers games he started got less points on average and him going off injured is all part of it.

Barca won 8 and drew 2 in the ten games Suarez missed through injury in second half of season and that includes a loss away to Real which is toughest game of season. Comes back and Barca win one of next four when had won one of the four he started before that injury as well.

Braithwaite is shite but the balance of the rest of team going forward is better without two sets of old legs to try and cover for. He wouldnt be a starter with all fit either.

 

[Joan]

On average yes, but the difference too small to be significant, me thinks.

Barca had a good run while Suarez was injured.

Might be better for the team in the long run, but doubt it is for this season's league race.

 

[malvolio]

From my numbers games he started got less points on average and him going off injured is all part of it.

Barca won 8 and drew 2 in the ten games Suarez missed through injury in second half of season and that includes a loss away to Real which is toughest game of season. Comes back and Barca win one of next four when had won one of the four he started before that injury as well.

Braithwaite is shite but the balance of the rest of team going forward is better without two sets of old legs to try and cover for. He wouldnt be a starter with all fit either.

Mate, you're again doing an unrealistic comparison. Just like the one about us having the best attack this season.

Him missing some games through injury and us playing better is influenced by many factors. Like the opposition we faced, the form they were in the moment, injuries. Also, we had a bum for a manager that had no personality.

Suarez comes fresh into the new season, with a competent manager behind him and voila - top scorer.

 

[JamDav1982]

Mate, you're again doing an unrealistic comparison. Just like the one about us having the best attack this season.

Him missing some games through injury and us playing better is influenced by many factors. Like the opposition we faced, the form they were in the moment, injuries. Also, we had a bum for a manager that had no personality.

Suarez comes fresh into the new season, with a competent manager behind him and voila - top scorer.

The best attack so far in terms of goals is Barca and that is without a CF and a lot of chances missed. That can change as Real, Barca and Atletico not all different unless Messi starts banging in more of his chances which could happen.

Agree it is not all definite and different factors but Barca in that time were winning more than directly before and after it and Suarez has to be considered as one of the factors.

Suarez at a team where it is not built for two old legs suits him and them. Completely different scenario to being at Barca.

Even though his legs have gone compared to what were had Messi left Suarez staying would have been better option.

The team needed to move on and build new team, with new approach towards future and although know you dont rate him I prefer to see this younger team with likes of FDJ central to it built on more energy and freedom for other players.

While Suarez would be at team for not just this season but next most likely if thinks what he is giving to team is what is needed.

 

[malvolio]

The best attack so far in terms of goals is Barca and that is without a CF and a lot of chances missed. That can change as Real, Barca and Atletico not all different unless Messi starts banging in more of his chances which could happen.

Agree it is not all definite and different factors but Barca in that time were winning more than directly before and after it and Suarez has to be considered as one of the factors.

Suarez at a team where it is not built for two old legs suits him and them. Completely different scenario to being at Barca.

Even though his legs have gone compared to what were had Messi left Suarez staying would have been better option.

The team needed to move on and build new team, with new approach towards future and although know you dont rate him I prefer to see this younger team with likes of FDJ central to it built on more energy and freedom for other players.

While Suarez would be at team for not just this season but next most likely if thinks what he is giving to team is what is needed.

We had 10 more goals at the same stage last season. And last season we hit 86 overall, one of our worst seasons scoring wise. Put things into context a bit. As I've said, we are not Atletico, we relly mostly on our attack to win games. 10 goals this season would have put us over Real, maybe in line with Atletico(if they would have went for Cavani ).

Sorry but I can't see what Braithwaite or Griezmann bring. Even Dembele is mostly ineffective, but at least he has pace and trickery to fool defenders and create danger.

I get the whole thing of moving forward, as I've accepted the situation when we sold him. But it proved to me wrong when we didn't replace him.

 

[Horatio]

Pretty confident we'll end up above Real.

 

[soul24rage]

Pretty confident we'll end up above Real.

Same