Martin Montoya

[Flavia]

That's 24 appearances, not 24 games. Nice cherrypicking there, mate!



In your dreams. As long as people are willing to spout shit like this just because his name is Dani Alves, there is nothing to talk about.

Serghei is right, though. And as raki pointed it out, in 2 games Roberto impressed a whole lot more than Montoya ever did.

 

[Stric]

I think Bartra is a much better player than Montoya.

I think so, too, but it's funny how at that time most people thought exactly the opposite. That shows how much Bartra improved, and how much better Montoya was then.

Montoya was Ok against the likes of Getafe, because usually Barça dominates this type of teams. He's always been very poor defensively. I was tired of seeing him almost fall to the floor each time someone did a feint. Offensively, he lacked any sort of creativity. In a couple of games, Sergi Roberto has shown much more than Montoya ever did, and we're talking about someone who has been criticized for not being creative enough.

Montoya is just too limited. Primera división level if he gets his shit together, but nothing else.

Can't disagree.

 

[Sumlit]

That's 24 appearances, not 24 games. Nice cherrypicking there, mate!].

Wth are you talking about?! I said he played in 24 games, and he surely did.

 

[Catta]

how his carer would have been different now if he had scored that goal against Real

 

[JamDav1982]

how his carer would have been different now if he had scored that goal against Real

It wouldnt have made him any better of a player.

Very little would have changed other than people using it to build him up as a player for a bit longer maybe.

 

[Stric]

Wth are you talking about?! I said he played in 24 games, and he surely did.

You said he played 24 games, which he didn't. He appeared 24 times on the pitch, that's not the same. Someone who knows where to find these stats can find out how many games he actually started.

 

[Flavia]

how his carer would have been different now if he had scored that goal against Real

I don't think it'd change anything. Jeffren scored against them.

 

[Flavia]

You said he played 24 games, which he didn't. He appeared 24 times on the pitch, that's not the same. Someone who knows where to find these stats can find out how many games he actually started.

He played 24 games. That's how it's counted. One doesn't need to start a game to say he played on it. He didn't say he started 24 games.

 

[Stric]

He played 24 games. That's how it's counted. One doesn't need to start a game to say he played on it. He didn't say he started 24 games.

When you say Messi played 24 games, that's roughly about 2000+ minutes. With subs like Montoya, saying they played 24 games can mean anything between 300-ish and 2000 minutes. That's a huge difference. Counting appearances for starters and subs as if they were the same thing is pointless. Starting a game basically guarantees playing most of a match. Minutes are what counts.

 

[Flavia]

When you say Messi played 24 games, that's roughly about 2000+ minutes. With subs like Montoya, saying they played 24 games can mean anything between 300-ish and 2000 minutes. That's a huge difference. Counting appearances for starters and subs as if they were the same thing is pointless.

That's how it's counted. Or Xavi wouldn't have 700+ games for Barça. It doesn't matter if a player started or got in as a sub, as soon as he plays, it counts as an appearance/game. That's why there's also the stats of minutes played. Montoya had plenty of chances to impress, but he rarely did. Roberto already impressed more, with way less minutes and matches, and not being originally a RB.

 

[Stric]

I never said it doesn't count, I said it's pointless to use appearances to show how much he played, when he was a late-2nd-half substitute in many of those. Use minutes or prove your point otherwise.

Montoya did not have plenty of chances. Stop lying. He might have been given enough chances, or a fair number of chances considering how good he was, but not plenty. That's simply not true. If there's anyone who wasn't given PLENTY of chances, it's Montoya. Bartra and Thiago weren't given many, either, but they still played more. You know who was given plenty of chances, but didn't convince? Fabregas. That's plenty. And it was incomparably more than Montoya. I'm not arguing that Montoya didn't impress, I'm just tired of people distorting facts and being unfair in trying to prove that he didn't.

 

[serghei]

In your dreams. As long as people are willing to spout shit like this just because his name is Dani Alves, there is nothing to talk about.

No, see, that's where you are wrong. In this case, Dani Alves vs. Montoya, you were unable to make the difference between a top top player, who hit a rough patch (along with several other players), and an average player who's form was always linear.

I don't doubt players very quickly myself. Didn't doubt Alves, didn't doubt Pique, didn't doubt Alexis, not even when they played well under their value. Didn't doubt Cesc either, although he's not proving me right these days. Sometimes you have great players who perform under their value, sometimes you have players of lower value who just play to the best of their limited potential. I only doubt players that I think are not good enough. Not based on form.

 

[JamDav1982]

I never said it doesn't count, I said it's pointless to use appearances to show how much he played, when he was a late-2nd-half substitute in many of those. Use minutes or prove your point otherwise.

Montoya did not have plenty of chances. Stop lying. He might have been given enough chances, or a fair number of chances considering how good he was, but not plenty. That's simply not true. You know who was given plenty of chances, but didn't convince? Fabregas. That's plenty. And it was incomparably more than Montoya.

Montoya was without doubt given a fair chance to impress at Barca.

How much minutes do you expect a back up player to get at Barca?

They need to grab any chance they can get to impress but Montoya just looked that same every time. A decent all round player. Not great defensively or good going forward.

If Montoya deserved more chances he would have go them. He just didnt quite cut it.

 

[Zinedinho]

I don't think it'd change anything. Jeffren scored against them.

You beat me to it. I was going to use the same example.

 

[Stric]

No, see, that's where you are wrong. In this case, Dani Alves vs. Montoya, you were unable to make the difference between a top top player, who hit a rough patch (along with several other players), and an average player who's form was always linear (or very little). Montoya is that type of player, who's game is so simple, that his mistakes are never catastrophic because he isn't

I don't doubt players very quickly myself. Didn't doubt Alves, didn't doubt Pique, didn't doubt Alexis, not even when they played well under their value. Didn't doubt Cesc either, although he's not proving me right these days. Sometimes you have great players who perform under their value, sometimes you have players of lower value who just play to the best of their limited potential. I only doubt players that I think are not good enough. Not based on form.

I never said Alves wasn't a better player overall than Montoya. But being a top player in general doesn't mean that at any given moment and in any given form you are better than some other non top-level player. That's why form matters. And some of our previous coaches ignored form as if it was an alien concept.