DrPepper
New member
Forgot Tielemans.
Gündogan, Kovacic, Tielemans and Torres combined would still cost less than Pogba alone
That's crazy.
Mateo Kovačić
- Thread starter RedMadridista
- Start date
Forgot Tielemans.
Gündogan, Kovacic, Tielemans and Torres combined would still cost less than Pogba alone
That's crazy.
Co0ter
Senior Member
That is exactly what I mean. Iniesta's "role" in the current team is nothing like the role he had in the team under Pep or his other successors. It is a much more defensive role, a bit more work rate involved too. We should be trying to buy someone who fills the position's current "role", not someone that is as similar to Iniesta as possible. It is the same thing for replacing Xavi, his old role in the team doesn't exist anymore...so we need to stop trying to find someone to replace it.
The reality is, we aren't going to find players to "replace" them and we wont be playing that "tiki taka" style of play for a long time. They were once a generation talents.
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Co0ter
Senior Member
IMO Gundogan plays much deep than Iniesta even plays presently. He plays deep like a DM most of the time, hence all the long balls. How many times do you see Gundogan near the final third, linking up with teammates or playing quick short passes? How often do you see him taking on defenders or making runs into the box? He's got the defensive qualities for the job, good vision...but not much else for the LM position in our team.
A Gundogan, Busquets and Rakitic midfield would be kind of toothless, static. Not ideal by any means to me. You can take a creative, attacking player and discipline him a bit like we did with Rakitic. You can't put someone like Gundogan in Iniesta's position and expect him to offer anything deadly in attack, he just isn't a dangerous player in that sense.
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
I haven't watched too much of Torres :/
But I would be happy with any option including 2 midfielders for 50M, than 100M for Pogba.
Look, imo:
-- Suarez will hardly be a Barca's starter, but let's see
-- I don't think that Halilovic is good enough, plus he doesn't fit our current direct style at all
He isn't exactly a new Iniesta, he is too weak to be a new Rakitic, and he is not as good to be a RW
-- Rafinha? I don't think that he will be our starter, he is, imo, not good enough
-- that leaves us with only Samper
-- and then, Kovacic was born in May 1994, and Samper in January 1995, which means that Kovacic is only 8 Months older than Samper
-- and Kovacic is already a leader of Inter (even though he is a foreigner), and was pushed to play for the first team as a 19-year old boy
-- plus, he has almost 20 NT caps, he already played at Euro and World cup
(Again, he is only 8 Months older)
So, in one hand, that is a FU for our players.
But on the other hand, what if all these midfielders turn into new Tello, Deulo, Adama, Munir, Sandro
-- then, we would pass the chance to sign new Isco/Verratti in Kovacic, Torres, Gundogan=because we waited for "our" players
On the other hand, look the amount of midfielders bought over years who were Xavi's competition:
1998:
-- 28 years old Dutch NT player Ronald De Boer (30M Euros)=failed
-- 28 years old Dutch NT player Cocu=succeeded
1999:
-- 28 years old Finland NT player Jari Litmanen, Ajax playmaker, one of the best playmakers in Europe in those days.
-- he won a CL with Ajax in 1995, he was their key playmaker=failed at Barca
2000:
-- we sold Figo, and brought the most promising Spanish Mf from Valencia, 21-years old Gerard Lopez, who played with Valencia in CL finals in 2000 (Real 0:3)
-- also, Gerard and his Valencia trashed Barca in CL semis 2 Months ago
-- transfer fee, 22 Millions, played 90 matches over 5 years in Barca
= failed, more or less
-- we also bought a proven world class Mf Emanuel Petit from Arsenal, 29 years old, French NT midfielder (scored a goal in a final, France:Brasil 3:0, World cup France 1998)
-- 14M Euros=failed
-- we promoted Gabri, who was along with Iniesta, the most promising versatile midfielder in those days. Something like Samper today
= Gabri was more or less just meh and a good squad player during his 7 Barca years (even though he played 120+ matches)
2001:
-- we bought another Mf, young Brasilian Fabio Rochemback for 9 Millions=a huge fail
2002:
-- we sold Mikel Arteta, a huge star of a B team
-- and we bought another 2 world class midfielders
-- 28 years old Spanish player Gaizka Mendieta, one of the best Mcs in the world back then. He reached CL finals with Valencia in 2000 (defeat against Real) and 2001 (Bayern)
-- he was something like Koke today
= Medieta=failed
-- other player was 24 years old Riquelme, hailed as the next Maradona in Argentina. He came from Boca Juniors
= failed
2003:
-- Laporta and Rijkaard came on board
-- we promoted young 19 years old Iniesta
-- plus, we loaned Edgar Davids, one of the best combative midfielders ever
-- he stayed only for 1 Season
-- we bought Luis Garcia=failed
2004:
-- Iniesta was now 20 years old, and a huge potential
-- but we still loaned Demetrio Albertini from Milan (33 years old Dmc)
-- bought another Dmc Edmilson, plus we already had a Dmc-Mc Thiago Motta from our youth academy
-- plus, we bought a CL winner Deco from Porto for 21 Millions
2005:
-- Albertini left, and now we signed on a free transfer Mc Van Bommel, aged 28
-- he was a somewhat success, but still left the team after one Season
2006:
-- no new midfielders, lol
2007:
-- we bought Yaya Toure
2008:
-- we bought Keita, Hleb
-- and promoted young Dmc Busquets
2009:
-- we promoted young Thiago
2010:
-- we bought Afellay
2011:
-- we bought Cesc back
2012:
-- we bought Song
2013:
-- we promoted Roberto and Rafinha
2014:
-- we bought Rakitic
-- so, Xavi had competition in these signings/promotions over years:
1. Ronald De Boer
2. Cocu
3. Litmanen
4. Gerard Lopez
5. Petit
6. Gabri
7. Rochemback
8. Arteta
9. Mendieta
10. Riquelme
11. Iniesta
12. Davids
13. Luis Garcia
14. Albertini
15. Edmilson
16. Motta
17. Deco
18. Van Bommel
19. Yaya Toure
20. Keita
21. Hleb
22. Thiago
23. Afellay
24. Cesc
25. Song
26. Sergi Roberto
27. Rafinha
28. Rakitic
= and after a lot of years, Xavi was benched after 28 transfers/promotions of players, lol
My point is, if a player is as good as Xavi or Iniesta, he will usually eventually find his place in Barca
-- if he will be meh, average or good but not good enough, well, nothing will help him then. He will just be replaced soon.
Look, buying Halilovic and Suarez was a FU to our current Bteam players.
Were we sad for those players? No, because we bought more promising guys.
Now when Halilovic and Suarez haven't shined till now as expected, maybe it is not a bad idea to move further and buy better players.
Barca always have to keep the balance between buying and giving chances to young players.
But as you see, from 1998 till now, only 2 pure midfielders, Xavi and Iniesta managed to survive in Barca.
That is 17 years. What are the odds that Halilovic and Suarez are the next 1st team players?
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Kohe321
New member
Excellent post [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION], allthough I don't share your view on Rafinha, I think he has improved a lot this season if you compare his recent games with how he started, and I do have hope that he can continue this upward trend next season. 
[MENTION=15783]KingMessi[/MENTION] Yeah, 2 young-ish midfielders where one is a tad more experienced at the highest level and one is more of a prospect would be perfect. Three would be overkill for everyone involved, not only the ones we already have, but the ones we sign.
[MENTION=15783]KingMessi[/MENTION] Yeah, 2 young-ish midfielders where one is a tad more experienced at the highest level and one is more of a prospect would be perfect. Three would be overkill for everyone involved, not only the ones we already have, but the ones we sign.
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
lol, it really puts things into perspective. 28 freakin' midfielders
28 midfielders, plus I haven't counted players who were already in the team when Xavi started to fight for his minutes.
In 1998-99, we already had:
1. Guardiola
2. Luis Enrique
3. Celades
4. Ciric
5. Oscar Garcia
6. Roger Garcia
So, it's actually 34 midfielders against whom Xavi had to fight over years.
In the end:
1. Xavi 505 matches
2. Iniesta 360
3. Guardiola 263
4. Luis Enrique 207
5. Cocu 205
6. Gabri 129
7. Keita 119
8. Deco 113
9. Motta 96
10. Gerard Lopez 91
11. Yaya 74
12. Celades 72
So, people sometimes say that Xavi was "pushed" because we needed more Catalan players back then.
But then again, out of these 34 midfielders, Xavi and Iniesta in the end have the highest amount of matches played for Barcelona.
And in the end, honestly, Xavi and Iniesta are the best players on this list, followed with Guardiola, Lucho, Cocu, Deco...
So, if you are good, you will find your place.
Xavi, for example, played under all of these coaches and he was always in the starting 11:
1. Van Gaal, 1st spell
2. Serra Ferrer
3. Rexach
4. Van Gaal, 2nd spell
5. Antic
6. Rijkaard
7. Guardiola
8. Tito
9. Tata
10. Lucho
dakt
Active member
Excellent post [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION], allthough I don't share your view on Rafinha, I think he has improved a lot this season if you compare his recent games with how he started, and I do have hope that he can continue this upward trend next season.
Agreed. Rafinha will just improve more and more with each game...on many occasions he was running like headless chicken, but at the start of the season and at the end he showed quality.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] Great post
I wonder though, where do you get the data from or do you just remember everything ? lol
I remember those years, plus I open Wikipedia or other sources to get the exact data and not to post crap infos.
(Wikipedia Fc Barcelona team 1998/99, 1999/00, 2000/01, 2001/02 etc)
Co0ter
Senior Member
I know a video doesn't tell all, but if you have seen Kovacic this year or earlier...or have seen his recent games like vs Juventus, you know he's a special talent. Here is a recent video of some goals and a lot of his dribbling.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eNOf7wY1gXM
He's got great dribbling and ball control...he keeps the ball close and is very difficult to disposses. He also shows a lot of strength and fights off tackles quite well. Let's also not forget he only turned 21 this month. He's got great vision with both long and short passes and he's got a good work rate. I also love how he is always moving and making himself available.
For 30 million he is a steal. He is more attacking minded and suits the LM position perfectly for us. He will only get better.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eNOf7wY1gXM
He's got great dribbling and ball control...he keeps the ball close and is very difficult to disposses. He also shows a lot of strength and fights off tackles quite well. Let's also not forget he only turned 21 this month. He's got great vision with both long and short passes and he's got a good work rate. I also love how he is always moving and making himself available.
For 30 million he is a steal. He is more attacking minded and suits the LM position perfectly for us. He will only get better.
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Co0ter
Senior Member
Now that you mention it, I think the poster edited that way. A lot of videos are sped up that way.
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