Matthijs de Ligt

Arizona Scott

New member
If VDV had pace, he would have been world class. Really great player with the ball on his feet. Pretty underrated.

VVD makes up ground on whomever he is chasing with the ball. He is blisteringly quick and top end pacy of a centerback.
Here is a report from the Liverpool-PSG match in the fall. https://www.90min.com/posts/6176252...speed-than-mbappe-in-psg-win-on-tuesday-night

Knocking VVD pace as a CB is like knocking Messi's left foot for not being more accurate.

De Ligt doesn't look near the class of athlete of VVD. He does look to me a tad clumsy and heavy. However De Ligt is 19 and I am sure he can get further refined as an athlete. There is a lot of like (his leadership and game reading) and may well be worth the investment, I am Ok with him in--just as long as a secondary affect isn't to limit getting our top #9 target like Jovic.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
VVD makes up ground on whomever he is chasing with the ball. He is blisteringly quick and top end pacy of a centerback.
Here is a report from the Liverpool-PSG match in the fall. https://www.90min.com/posts/6176252...speed-than-mbappe-in-psg-win-on-tuesday-night

Knocking VVD pace as a CB is like knocking Messi's left foot for not being more accurate.

De Ligt doesn't look near the class of athlete of VVD. He does look to me a tad clumsy and heavy. However De Ligt is 19 and I am sure he can get further refined as an athlete. There is a lot of like (his leadership and game reading) and may well be worth the investment, I am Ok with him in--just as long as a secondary affect isn't to limit getting our top #9 target like Jovic.

VDV as Van Der vaart, not VVD as of Van Dijk :lol:
 

Campos

New member
Defending is an art. No matter how athletic you are. If you can't read the game well. Your doomed to fail.
Defending is all about awareness and timing. Not about pace and atleticism.

Some of the best defenders weren't even the best athletes. So that shouldn't be a problem.

De Ligt can read a game well. His tackling is well timed, his positional awareness is great .He's great with the ball on his feet. He has leadership qualities. He will only get better and better. What do you want more ?

Don't think it's fair to compare him with VD (De Ligt is 19, VD is 27). That's like comparing Frenkie to Modric. It doesn't make any sense. If De Ligt fulfils his potential. He wil become better within 2 years. No doubt about that. It's not like VD is MILES ahead of him.

P.S. Ya i ment Van de Vaart. Really underrated player. Imo he was even better than his buddy Sneijder. Who only had a few good seasons at Inter.
 

BarçaBarça

New member
I personally don't see a negative with trying to sign him. If we want to move on from him and upgrade later we'll do so without losing a lot of money due to his age and already great reputation.

If he succeeds and lives up to expectations we got a damn good player for 10+ years, and most likely a future Captain too.

He already leads Ajax in Europe-games, and demands passion from the fans - those traits are rare at his age!
He has potential to be that captain who hammers a header in goal from a corner in the 92nd minute in the CL semis second leg to get us through :mats:
Such is his leader-potential and that is worth a whole lot for a club like ours.
 

Andresito

Senior Member
Staff member
Do you know where almighty God van Dijk was when he was de Ligt's age? He was at Groningen, a club people make fun of when speaking about de Ligt and Eredivisie.

Not saying de Ligt will be better than van Dijk. But rather that all players have flaws during the start of their careers.

van Dijk was a late bloomer, de Ligt will hopefully reach his prime earlier meaning his team gets a lot more of his best years.

Plus, the current hype will help him in the future. If he fails at Barca, another team might "give it a try" since he'll still have a lot of time to reach his best, so we should get the majority of the money back.
 

Zidane82

Well-known member
De Ligt is too good for the Eredivisie. He need to play in a top competition on a weekly basis. He need to play against top-class strikers every week. He will leave this summer. Even if Barca don't buy him.
Ajax fans would love to see him one more season. But trust me, it won't happen.





If VDV had pace, he would have been world class. Really great player with the ball on his feet. Pretty underrated.
VSV was a fabulous player ... Harry Redknapp said recently that he was the most technically gifted player he’s worked with ...
 

Zidane82

Well-known member
He already leads Ajax in Europe-games, and demands passion from the fans - those traits are rare at his age!
He has potential to be that captain who hammers a header in goal from a corner in the 92nd minute in the CL semis second leg to get us through :mats:
Such is his leader-potential and that is worth a whole lot for a club like ours.


Totally agree
 

Zidane82

Well-known member
Defending is an art. No matter how athletic you are. If you can't read the game well. Your doomed to fail.
Defending is all about awareness and timing. Not about pace and atleticism.

Some of the best defenders weren't even the best athletes. So that shouldn't be a problem.

De Ligt can read a game well. His tackling is well timed, his positional awareness is great .He's great with the ball on his feet. He has leadership qualities. He will only get better and better. What do you want more ?

Don't think it's fair to compare him with VD (De Ligt is 19, VD is 27). That's like comparing Frenkie to Modric. It doesn't make any sense. If De Ligt fulfils his potential. He wil become better within 2 years. No doubt about that. It's not like VD is MILES ahead of him.

P.S. Ya i ment Van de Vaart. Really underrated player. Imo he was even better than his buddy Sneijder. Who only had a few good seasons at Inter.

Again I agree ..

After that unfortunate slip ( a few slipped on the night ) he actually went on to play really well against Sane who’s been basically unplayable in recent weeks .
He was just reading the game and getting to the ball before Sane was even getting a touch ..
 

Messi983

Senior Member
Now, if we'll buy De Light, we will have:
1. a club icon and an icon of Catalonia and independance (Pique) who plays as a Goat this season. You can't bench him in the next 2 years, I guess.
2. Lenglet, who is young and awesome this season
3. Umtiti, who is young and was called by people here: as the best CB in the world last season

Now, let's move emotions and bias for a second.
How exactly are you guys planning to rotate these 4 players?
The only option is to rotate 4 defenders in EVERY single match.
But then... you need chemistry and automatism in the defense also, which can be accomplished only with playing one defensive duo more often.

Pique and Lenglet played for 1 season together and they now have a good chemistry.
Pique and Umtiti played in the last season and had a good chemistry, but now they haven't played together for half of a season.
Also, short term: Pique is heavy and slow and De light also.
Those two can't play together, right?
De Light could play with Umtiti and Lenglet.
But then, what Wolfe mentions often: you need an older guy and a kid together so that an older guy can teach and lead a kid.
Who will teach De Light? Lenglet?

So, I am not against De Light.
I just think that he is NOT THAT GOOD in THIS MOMENT.
Plus, his signing will bring a lot of practical problems for a coach in terms of rotations in defense and making all 4 guys happy.
"The best" option for us would be if one defenders would get injured for 6 Months, then 3 guys would play a lot.
If all 4 guys will be fit, there will be a lot of problems and unhappy players (and Barcaforum fans).


Good points here. CB (alongside GK) is a position where most coaches don't really want to change much if not needed (injuries, suspensions). Having Pique, De Ligt, Umtiti and Lenglet looks absolutely great on paper but could also bring some of the problems you mentioned. Keeping the younger trio for more than 2-3 years would be hard enough but we'll still have Pique for the next two seasons.

In ideal world we would buy De Ligt in 2020 or maybe even 2021. But in reality it's now or never if we're seriously considering him as a future Pique replacement. I think we'll get him so EV will have to find a way to keep all four CBs "happy" and in form. In worst case scenario Pique could go back to thinking more about his off-the field stuff than football, Umtiti's injury problems won't go away, MDL will have troubles to adapt and Lenglet won't play on the same level than this season. So having 4 "great" CBs on paper wouldn't help us much in that case but maybe we would be "lucky" enough two of them would be in good form/healthy/focused enough on football at the same time so we could somehow go through the season without suffering too much. Still better than counting on Murillo (not good enough), Vermaelen (old and injury prone) or Todibo (talented but very very raw) as your CB depth/rotation though.

But now let's assume Pique stays focused and plays on the same level he did the last 3 months or so. Lenglet stays consistent as well. Umtiti is back to his pre-injury form or at least close to that. And De Ligt has no problems to adapt. What should EV do in this case? Personally I think keeping two CB pairs would be the best way. If Umtiti is back to his old self I would assume he would play alongside Pique in most big/important games. And we could play De Ligt-Lenglet in easier games and in CDR.

I think De Ligt is very experienced for his age and don't really need a "mentor" during the games so you don't need to pair him with Pique but obviously he could learn from him on trainings. But if MDL-Lenglet would play really good they will probably think they deserve to start some games at least against Sevilla or Valencia if not in El Clasico or against AM. How should EV handle things then? Or if Pique is injured/suspended for a big game, do we play MDL with Lenglet (who he's more used to play with) or alongside Umtiti (who might be a top 3 CB in the world again by that time but has bad/not proven enough chemistry with MDL)?

In reality, things will probably be somewhere between the worst and best case scenario mentioned above (still hopefully closer to the best scenario) but some problems and tough decisions for EV will stay and yes, it could lead to unhappiness among the players. I won't mention the fans because they always find something to complain about.

Another way to get minutes to MDL is to sub him on for Pique in 2nd half when we're up 2-0 or more but how many times could we do that during the season? 3-5 times, maybe up to 10 times but we would risk upsetting Pique if he would be constantly subbed off. And well, it's also not easy for CBs to come into the game off the bench. But I think both MDL and FDJ will get a lot of their minutes off the bench at the start of the season with occasional start here and there. People on barcaforum won't like this but they'll have to play and deserve their way into the lineup like Arthur did this season. I think they are both aware of that and willing to accept the challenge.
 

Vilarrubi

New member
Now, if we'll buy De Light, we will have:
1. a club icon and an icon of Catalonia and independance (Pique) who plays as a Goat this season. You can't bench him in the next 2 years, I guess.
2. Lenglet, who is young and awesome this season
3. Umtiti, who is young and was called by people here: as the best CB in the world last season

Now, let's move emotions and bias for a second.
How exactly are you guys planning to rotate these 4 players?
The only option is to rotate 4 defenders in EVERY single match.
But then... you need chemistry and automatism in the defense also, which can be accomplished only with playing one defensive duo more often.

Pique and Lenglet played for 1 season together and they now have a good chemistry.
Pique and Umtiti played in the last season and had a good chemistry, but now they haven't played together for half of a season.
Also, short term: Pique is heavy and slow and De light also.
Those two can't play together, right?
De Light could play with Umtiti and Lenglet.
But then, what Wolfe mentions often: you need an older guy and a kid together so that an older guy can teach and lead a kid.
Who will teach De Light? Lenglet?

So, I am not against De Light.
I just think that he is NOT THAT GOOD in THIS MOMENT.
Plus, his signing will bring a lot of practical problems for a coach in terms of rotations in defense and making all 4 guys happy.
"The best" option for us would be if one defenders would get injured for 6 Months, then 3 guys would play a lot.
If all 4 guys will be fit, there will be a lot of problems and unhappy players (and Barcaforum fans).

Does seem odd in a way that we are after him with our current CB situation being fine.

Maybe the club knows Pique only wants to play 1 season more so De Ligt and Umtiti would be the eventual CB pairing. Harsh on Lenglet though as he's been one of the surprises of the season.
 

Zidane82

Well-known member
Does seem odd in a way that we are after him with our current CB situation being fine.

Maybe the club knows Pique only wants to play 1 season more so De Ligt and Umtiti would be the eventual CB pairing. Harsh on Lenglet though as he's been one of the surprises of the season.
I’m not sure we are fine to be honest ..

Pique and Lenglet have been great recently but there’s only Umtiti after that and he’s not proven his fitness by any means .. still don’t know why he was allowed to chose not to have surgery ..
 

Vilarrubi

New member
I’m not sure we are fine to be honest ..

Pique and Lenglet have been great recently but there’s only Umtiti after that and he’s not proven his fitness by any means .. still don’t know why he was allowed to chose not to have surgery ..

I think at CB we're the best we've been in a while. The Umtiti surgery thing is just rumours... he's only played a couple of games since he's been back so willing to give him time to get back to 100%.

In terms of CBs though we have Pique, Lenglet and Umtiti who could easily start when fit.. then Vermaelen, Todibo and Murillo as backup. Compare that to a few years ago when we had Mascherano, Pique, a finished Puyol who didn't play and Bartra as backup.....
 

Messi983

Senior Member
Does seem odd in a way that we are after him with our current CB situation being fine.

Maybe the club knows Pique only wants to play 1 season more so De Ligt and Umtiti would be the eventual CB pairing. Harsh on Lenglet though as he's been one of the surprises of the season.

True but he is competing for his minutes more with Umtiti than he would with De Ligt. Until proven otherwise I don't believe we'll see Pique-De Ligt or Umtiti-Lenglet paired together in serious games (still worth to try these combinations out in preseason though) unless we wouldn't have other options because of suspensions or injuries.

Lenglet also knew he was brought as Umtiti's backup and still decided to sign with us. After Big Sam injury he has played much more than anyone expected and now his status should be improved but I still think he's a team player and will accept to be a (very good) backup/rotation player again without making problems for the team but if Umtiti is ever fully recovered and back to his best form I don't see Lenglet staying more than 2 seasons. Unless we decide to cash on Umtiti before he gets injured again.
 

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