Matthijs de Ligt
- Thread starter El Flaco
- Start date
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I have been saying for some time now, I think that we will buy Frenkie and Rabiot.
And we won't buy De Light.
Historically, Barca never bought the most expensive defender out there.
On the other hand, we are famous for splashing a lot for numerous forwards like: Saviola, Ronaldinho, Etoo, Villa, Henry, Ibrahimovic, Neymar, Suarez, Dembele, Coutinho.
How many ultra expensive defenders have we bought in our history? Only Dani Alves iirc.
Someone will say: but De Light is a once in a lifetime opportunity.
Well, until the next season, then we will see 2-3 new De Lights, as always.
Further, my opinion is that there is a way bigger gap and a way better return of an investment on a field in terms of results for Barca when we buy the most expensive forward than the most expensive defender.
If you buy Ronaldinho, Etoo, Suarez, you know what you will get: goals and victories.
If you buy the best defender, you will concede slightly less, and you may still struggle to win.
So, in Barca's history:
1. best attackers and average defenders=bring titles
2. average attackers and best defenders=don't win anything
So, if the best attackers in the world cost 180M, and if best defenders cost 80M, then for Barca, it is always better to:
= to buy a 180M attacker and some 30-40M defenders
Than to buy a 90M attacker and 80M defender.
In that sense, I think that we will go all in with Frenkie (a midfielder) and pay whatever it takes.
And with defenders, we won't pay insane amounts for De Light, who is not better than Pique, Umtiti, Lenglet in this moment.
And we will just buy random new Lenglets for 30-35M next summer and that's it.
Also, imo, a gap in terms of performances between a 80M De Light and 35M Lenglet is way smaller than between a 180M best attacker in the world and some 70-90M attacker.
And we won't buy De Light.
Historically, Barca never bought the most expensive defender out there.
On the other hand, we are famous for splashing a lot for numerous forwards like: Saviola, Ronaldinho, Etoo, Villa, Henry, Ibrahimovic, Neymar, Suarez, Dembele, Coutinho.
How many ultra expensive defenders have we bought in our history? Only Dani Alves iirc.
Someone will say: but De Light is a once in a lifetime opportunity.
Well, until the next season, then we will see 2-3 new De Lights, as always.
Further, my opinion is that there is a way bigger gap and a way better return of an investment on a field in terms of results for Barca when we buy the most expensive forward than the most expensive defender.
If you buy Ronaldinho, Etoo, Suarez, you know what you will get: goals and victories.
If you buy the best defender, you will concede slightly less, and you may still struggle to win.
So, in Barca's history:
1. best attackers and average defenders=bring titles
2. average attackers and best defenders=don't win anything
So, if the best attackers in the world cost 180M, and if best defenders cost 80M, then for Barca, it is always better to:
= to buy a 180M attacker and some 30-40M defenders
Than to buy a 90M attacker and 80M defender.
In that sense, I think that we will go all in with Frenkie (a midfielder) and pay whatever it takes.
And with defenders, we won't pay insane amounts for De Light, who is not better than Pique, Umtiti, Lenglet in this moment.
And we will just buy random new Lenglets for 30-35M next summer and that's it.
Also, imo, a gap in terms of performances between a 80M De Light and 35M Lenglet is way smaller than between a 180M best attacker in the world and some 70-90M attacker.
Joan
Well-known member
Several issues there. Firsty, both of them are left footed. While it may not seem significant, that's a rare sight. Right footed partnerships are somewhat different, I dare to say. Secondly, the state Umtiti's in. Need to experiment to see if it can work well enough. We can't tell at the moment if he'll be back how badly the injury will impact his career. Some would queation Lenglet, but that's another discussion.
Leo_Messi
New member
Am I the only one that thinks/suspects that Piqué might be one of the obstacles to de Light's possible arrival? In the sense that a 32.5 year old Piqué might lose his starting spot to that very same player within the next season? Ideally no player should have any say in any transfer dealings of the club but we all know about the influence of the seniors and old guard at the club. In particular with no Pep or Lucho around. Piqué is only second to Messi in terms of influence if that can do it.
I would not be surprised the least. Just a little thought of mine that I decided to share here, lol.
I would not be surprised the least. Just a little thought of mine that I decided to share here, lol.
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khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Pique has lost captain election in the team twice (against both Busquets and Mascherano) so I am not really sure he is the 2nd most influential player in the team. He is surely behind Busquets.
Everyone cares about his own success at the end of the day, no coach or management will risk losing trophies to make Pique starter.
De Ligt -and De Jong too- are high risk high reward type of deal, they are expensive players playing in very low level competition with very small sample size against good teams.
You add that to the fact that he has hired Raiola to get him paid, an agent that was black listed for long time in our club,remember last player bought with raola a an agent was decade ago,last player to stay at the club while Raiola was his agent was 7 years ago.
It is normal that the club would look for other options and be hesitant, good risk that he never works out. And even if he did he will be a pain in the ass during every renewal with media -for some unknown reason- keep speculation bout mega offers or clubs wanting to pay his buyout
Leo_Messi
New member
Pique has lost captain election in the team twice (against both Busquets and Mascherano) so I am not really sure he is the 2nd most influential player in the team. He is surely behind Busquets.
Everyone cares about his own success at the end of the day, no coach or management will risk losing trophies to make Pique starter.
De Ligt -and De Jong too- are high risk high reward type of deal, they are expensive players playing in very low level competition with very small sample size against good teams.
You add that to the fact that he has hired Raiola to get him paid, an agent that was black listed for long time in our club,remember last player bought with raola a an agent was decade ago,last player to stay at the club while Raiola was his agent was 7 years ago.
It is normal that the club would look for other options and be hesitant, good risk that he never works out. And even if he did he will be a pain in the ass during every renewal with media -for some unknown reason- keep speculation bout mega offers or clubs wanting to pay his buyout
Piqué definitely has a way bigger say in the dressing room and more influence within the club than the timid Busquets. Let us not forget that Piqué helped the freaking board with closing the Rakuten deal. Piqué is much more vocal in the media as well.
Raiola is not his agent but a third party from what I understood.
De Light and de Jong are the real deal. I think that is obvious from watching them play alone. Obviously we can't have the same opinion about every player but given the fact that practically every top club is interested in both of them, should speak volume.
BTW, they have proven themselves in the Europa League, the national team of the Netherlands and CL this year. They are dominating the Eredivisie as well. Their hype, considering what they have done already and their age, is deserved so far.
Of course we will be fine without them but you can't deny (so far at least) that they are very exciting transfer targets for most top clubs given their current level, their potential and age.
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soul24rage
Senior Member
there were reports that pique is going to retire at the end of the 19-20 season to prepare for his presidential candidacy. If that is true, then I'm sure pique will not be that much of an obstacle in the pursuit of De Ligt.
Joan
Well-known member
soul24rage
Senior Member
Wasn't that a dia de los santos inocentes report?
was it on that day? i just remember reading it while travelling. if it was, then forget what I just said lol
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Let's see what we know for sure: Pique isn't 2nd influential player in the team, that is as close to fact we know as it gets.
He lost Captain election against Busquets, when he had team seniority, being youth product (Busquets technically La Masia, but not club youth product), age, and longer relation with most of the team.
He then went public to say he wants to be team captain, just to lose team election again, for Mascherano, who again had no seniority (matters in team captain selection) over Pique in the team.
Have you ever heard any player talks about Busquets? look more in depth about the club and you would know it isn't even close. Busquets is always talked like god from players/former player, with many reports talks about his leadership and effect in the dressing room since Tata's days. No one talks about Pique like that, he is the fun friend but that is where it ends.
Rakuten? lol. This was like a guy setting his friend for a blind date, and Pique is a businessman , I will give him that.
Pique is likely the player the board want to get rid the most from senior players, he is an openly speaking guy in the era of political correctness with a board that wants no business with controversy, he is closer to Alves than Puyol/Xavi in the team, once he declines (can argue that is happening now) he will be shown the door and will likely move to US in couple of years.
I won't be surprised if Rakitic/Suarez -especially the later- are more influential in the dressing room than Pique.
Yes, he is a 3rd party used to whore him to the biggest offer, every report out there seem to link his move with raiola. So basically this means he is now a Raiola agent. His actual agent is nobody that De Ligt will probably get rid of him unless there is a family ties or something.Has only other client is 19 years old CB playing in 2nd division in Netherland.
OTOH Not every club willing to pay huge money for them
FDJ played 48 minutes in Europa league during his career, so no he didn't prove himself there. De Ligt played well in his 1st year against Schalke & Lyon, but those are again not really high level competition, they were out quickly last year and this year their group wasn't that tough tbh.
They surely played some big games (with mixed results) so I can't say they are really proven being worth 75M+
atm they are high risk high reward players when you factor the price, that is why the club is hesitant to pay for them. Not because they are afraid of some player
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Leo_Messi
New member
You are putting way too much emphasis on who is the captain, second or third captain. Messi is the best example of why you should not look at the armband.
I am talking about influence in the dressing room, seniority (only Messi has a greater seniority), being outspoken in the media, influence within the club. It's clear that Piqué is way above the timid Busquets.
No doubt that this incompetent and spineless board would want to get rid of Piqué as soon as possible. After all he has embarrassed them a few times and he enjoys great popularity locally.
Anyway let us agree to disagree.
Being a third party is not equal to being an actual agent. Raiola is probably only helping him get the best deal (especially in the Italian market - Juve) but I doubt that Raiola would be a problem even if he became his agent. At the end of the day the player will always have the final say.
When I mentioned the Europa League I was obviously talking about de Light. One can spin it however one likes but both of them have had great performances in every tournament (domestic league and competitions, emerging national team and Europe).
75 million euros or not (those are rumors and I never mentioned or discussed any possible transfer fee), the market has changed ages ago. Today players like Mbappe (one-season wonders when QSG signed him) are sold for 200 million euros. Coutinho for 160 million euros. Van Dijk for 100 million euros. Kepa for 80 + million euros.
I rather pay 75 million euros for a 20 year old de Light than 100 + million euros for a 28 year old Koulibaly for example. Not only that, sometimes you have to gamble if you want to buy the biggest and most promising talents out there. I will take a de Light for say 75 million euro over a 27 year old average Murillo (example) that costs 25 million euros every day of the week.
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khaled_a_d
Senior Member
You like them and I get that, but they are pricey, and again if the club is hesitant it is because of that, and surely not because of Pique.
Leo_Messi
New member
They are pricy but are they really more pricy than some of the transfers that we have witnessed lately? Not sure about that. I would not underestimate the role and influence of senior plays. See my most recent posts in the Valverde thread. BTW I was not stating it like it was some kind of established fact. I was just speculation. My speculation might have nothing to do with the reality and it might. We will never know but personally I would not be too surprised if it was the case.
BTW, if you are not keen on buying de Light for say 75 million euros, what do you prefer? Going all-in on Todibo? Buying an more expensive established "star" defender like say Koulibaly?
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