Matthijs de Ligt

Gilberto

New member
Yeah, Ajax players done well in Spurs. But then what?
Non of those has moved to bigger clubs and I don't see any moving to bigger ones anytime soon. It is really hard to get one of Spurs best players anyway.
I mean it is good to play for Tottenham but they have won almost nothing in past 20 years except one carling cup IIRC. I think a player like De Lige will be aiming for more than that

One could argue that the fact that Tottenham isn't a top top team makes it a great club to go to for young players in the Eredivisie. There is not as much pressure to win trophies as in other clubs and the quality of players is slightly lower, which makes it easier to get a starting spot. When they left Ajax, Vertonghen and Eriksen were better than De Ligt is now, so if De Ligt were to leave Ajax in the short future, Tottenham would probably still be too big for his boots. Playing time is probably more important than anything else and I doubt there will be players from the Eredivisie that could go directly to a real world class team and get playing time.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
One could argue that the fact that Tottenham isn't a top top team makes it a great club to go to for young players in the Eredivisie. There is not as much pressure to win trophies as in other clubs and the quality of players is slightly lower, which makes it easier to get a starting spot. When they left Ajax, Vertonghen and Eriksen were better than De Ligt is now, so if De Ligt were to leave Ajax in the short future, Tottenham would probably still be too big for his boots. Playing time is probably more important than anything else and I doubt there will be players from the Eredivisie that could go directly to a real world class team and get playing time.

Again, a player like De Ligt who seem to have offers from both Bayern & Barcelona as both clubs consider him a future starter in their clubs shouldn't aim for Spurs for his development unless he thinks it is his roof to be playing in a club like that
And playing time isn't the most important in all cases, plenty of youth player gradually take minutes in big clubs. Varane joined RM at almost same age as De Ligt right now and played less than 20% of available minutes in Liga for example and it didn't hurt his development. De ligt has way more experience than Varane did at that time too.
I don't know if he is good enough, but he seem to be very highly rated by many clubs to not think it will be a mistake to waste his career in Tottenham like Davinson is probably gonna do

de Ligt need to become good enough to make a move first.

Still probably two or three years away from even being considered for the fee Ajax would want which is 40m+. Considered, not worth.

players are now sold based on potential, I don't like it but it is the way to go this days unfortunately. Although unless an English club comes I doubt Ajax will get the fee they want.
 

tacticvarium

New member
I personally have more expectations for de Ligt and Lenglet than Mina.
Hope we keep track of the development of these two.
 

FCBfan22

Senior Member
Would get De Light and replace Vermaelen with him for next season in a heartbeat.

The question is, is this possible with our finances.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Would get De Light and replace Vermaelen with him for next season in a heartbeat.

The question is, is this possible with our finances.

Depending on many factors.
1-Are we really buying Griezmann? If not we have the money, but odds seem in favor of his signing

2-Are we activating our option to buy Arthur? Would say baring an injury it is done deal

3-How much money are we getting from selling? If Inter finish top 4 then we get 35M for Rafinha, with Arthur and Griezmann we will have Denis/Gomes/Paco out most likely can we get 40-50M for those 3? Don't know as I won't be surprised if we ended up with total 7M or 60M for them :lol:

4-Is Umtiti staying? If not then we have all money to get him.

5-How much Ajaz really want for him anyway? 30? 50? or even more?
 

FCBfan22

Senior Member
Depending on many factors.
1-Are we really buying Griezmann? If not we have the money, but odds seem in favor of his signing

2-Are we activating our option to buy Arthur? Would say baring an injury it is done deal

3-How much money are we getting from selling? If Inter finish top 4 then we get 35M for Rafinha, with Arthur and Griezmann we will have Denis/Gomes/Paco out most likely can we get 40-50M for those 3? Don't know as I won't be surprised if we ended up with total 7M or 60M for them :lol:

4-Is Umtiti staying? If not then we have all money to get him.

5-How much Ajaz really want for him anyway? 30? 50? or even more?

Ajax apparently wants 40 million. I guess a lot will depend if Inter finishes in top 4. If they do, we should have the money to buy him.

But on the other hand, if Iniesta leaves, we will need another attacking midfielder...
 

xXKonan

Senior Member
In Arthurs case there's no doubt in my mind we will activate the clause.

Considering his interviews and how much donkey work went into securing that option on him I wouldn't be surprised if he was told behind the scenes that we will without a doubt activate the buy option. I think Ajax would want 40-50 for De Ligt.

Can't see us buying him this summer though. I just don't know where the money is going to come from if we are really going to get Griez.
 

FCBfan22

Senior Member
In Arthurs case there's no doubt in my mind we will activate the clause.

Considering his interviews and how much donkey work went into securing that option on him I wouldn't be surprised if he was told behind the scenes that we will without a doubt activate the buy option. I think Ajax would want 40-50 for De Ligt.

Can't see us buying him this summer though. I just don't know where the money is going to come from if we are really going to get Griez.

Rafinha if Inter finishes in top 4. I hope our board didn't already assume that will happen and worked that money in Griezmann's deal. That would be incredibly stupid.
 

FC433

New member
I think we can get him, but the issue is that he may want a starting spot.

We have got these players to sell: Vermaelen, D. Suarez, Gomes, Paco, Vidal, Deulofeu and Rafinha.
 

Messi983

Senior Member
Don't think we'll buy a CB this summer and I'm also not convinced De Ligt is even our top target for CB position. We are linked to a lot of CBs and in the end probably everything will depend on their availability/price and how they'll develop next season.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if we'd try to do similar deals we did for Arthur and Mina and use our good relationship with clubs like Ajax (though connections between the clubs are not as great as they were 15-20 years ago; De Ligt, De Jong, Kluivert), Lyon (Aouar, Tousart, Ndombele, Mendy, Gouiri), Betis (Fabian Ruiz, I think Francis is worth to keep an eye on too) to get first/buy option or whatever so we'd basically control their destiny before they go to bigger clubs and become more expensive and/or unavailable if they end up in Madrid, PSG, City, Bayern,... who never sell their key players if some of these players will develop into that. And if they won't then they are probably just not good enough and won't be interesting to us in 2-3 years even if they would be available for a good price.

I think for most of the players mentioned above would be the best if they would stay at their clubs for at least another year, play regularly and develop under less pressure before making the next step in their careers. On the other hand we'll already use next season as adaptation period for Griezmann, Arthur, Alena and based on their injuries/limited playing time this season we could probably say the same for Dembele, Mina and even Semedo (if he'll become a starter). IF Iniesta leaves and Coutinho will play primarily in his position he'll have to adapt to play there as well. So that's basically 5-7 "new" players.

I know people would like to get rid off all our deadweight and replace them with 3-4 20-and something year-old kids and while I'm not against bringing fresh talent to the club we should also be aware this is real life not FM/FIFA and most new signings (exceptions like Umtiti are very rare) will need 6/12 or maybe more months to adapt and integrate into the team even if they are proven players like Cou or Griezmann and more so if they are younger players with limited top level experience coming from (mostly) inferior clubs/leagues.

So this season is used to integrate Semedo, Dembele and Mina (none of them has really made a full step forward so far for different reasons) alongside more experienced Paulinho and Coutinho. Next season we'll try to do the same with youngsters Arthur and Alena (if we are serious about giving him a chance) and more proven Griezmann. Then in 2019 we can get De Ligt or another CB to groom him as potential Pique replacement (if Mina won't show enough to be considered as one) and another midfielder, possibly also LB and RB (if Semedo won't prove to be a longterm solution next season). Slowly rebuilding/rejuvenating the team while staying competitive with our "old guard" is the way to go IMO as long as we have Messi playing at (or close to) his top level. Nobody knows what will happen after that and we can't expect every signing to turn out gold but hopefully most of our recent and future signings will be closer to MATS/Umtiti than Denis level so we'll keep competing for major trophies in the next 2-3 seasons and then our transition period after Messi could also be easier if we'll succced to make a good team around "new" core players like MATS, Umtiti, Coutinho, Griezmann and hopefully Dembele, Semedo, Arthur, Alena,...
 

Raketa10

Senior Member
Don't think we'll buy a CB this summer and I'm also not convinced De Ligt is even our top target for CB position. We are linked to a lot of CBs and in the end probably everything will depend on their availability/price and how they'll develop next season.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if we'd try to do similar deals we did for Arthur and Mina and use our good relationship with clubs like Ajax (though connections between the clubs are not as great as they were 15-20 years ago; De Ligt, De Jong, Kluivert), Lyon (Aouar, Tousart, Ndombele, Mendy, Gouiri), Betis (Fabian Ruiz, I think Francis is worth to keep an eye on too) to get first/buy option or whatever so we'd basically control their destiny before they go to bigger clubs and become more expensive and/or unavailable if they end up in Madrid, PSG, City, Bayern,... who never sell their key players if some of these players will develop into that. And if they won't then they are probably just not good enough and won't be interesting to us in 2-3 years even if they would be available for a good price.

I think for most of the players mentioned above would be the best if they would stay at their clubs for at least another year, play regularly and develop under less pressure before making the next step in their careers. On the other hand we'll already use next season as adaptation period for Griezmann, Arthur, Alena and based on their injuries/limited playing time this season we could probably say the same for Dembele, Mina and even Semedo (if he'll become a starter). IF Iniesta leaves and Coutinho will play primarily in his position he'll have to adapt to play there as well. So that's basically 5-7 "new" players.

I know people would like to get rid off all our deadweight and replace them with 3-4 20-and something year-old kids and while I'm not against bringing fresh talent to the club we should also be aware this is real life not FM/FIFA and most new signings (exceptions like Umtiti are very rare) will need 6/12 or maybe more months to adapt and integrate into the team even if they are proven players like Cou or Griezmann and more so if they are younger players with limited top level experience coming from (mostly) inferior clubs/leagues.

So this season is used to integrate Semedo, Dembele and Mina (none of them has really made a full step forward so far for different reasons) alongside more experienced Paulinho and Coutinho. Next season we'll try to do the same with youngsters Arthur and Alena (if we are serious about giving him a chance) and more proven Griezmann. Then in 2019 we can get De Ligt or another CB to groom him as potential Pique replacement (if Mina won't show enough to be considered as one) and another midfielder, possibly also LB and RB (if Semedo won't prove to be a longterm solution next season). Slowly rebuilding/rejuvenating the team while staying competitive with our "old guard" is the way to go IMO as long as we have Messi playing at (or close to) his top level. Nobody knows what will happen after that and we can't expect every signing to turn out gold but hopefully most of our recent and future signings will be closer to MATS/Umtiti than Denis level so we'll keep competing for major trophies in the next 2-3 seasons and then our transition period after Messi could also be easier if we'll succced to make a good team around "new" core players like MATS, Umtiti, Coutinho, Griezmann and hopefully Dembele, Semedo, Arthur, Alena,...

It will depend on Umtiti's renewal. If he renews we might stick with Pique, Umtiti, Vermaelen and Mina for one more year.
 

malvolio

Senior Member
it would be good if we can get a first option on him now. letting him play at ajax for one more year and then grooming him as pique successor.
 

BarçaBarça

New member
Slowly rebuilding/rejuvenating the team while staying competitive with our "old guard" is the way to go IMO as long as we have Messi playing at (or close to) his top level. Nobody knows what will happen after that and we can't expect every signing to turn out gold but hopefully most of our recent and future signings will be closer to MATS/Umtiti than Denis level so we'll keep competing for major trophies in the next 2-3 seasons and then our transition period after Messi could also be easier if we'll succced to make a good team around "new" core players like MATS, Umtiti, Coutinho, Griezmann and hopefully Dembele, Semedo, Arthur, Alena,...

Don't you think Roberto has a sure place in this future Barca-team? I know that he isn't top-20 players in the world, but he is proven at highest La Liga + CL-level, and will be a starter in midfield as I see it, unless Arthur + Alena explodes quickly and push him to rightback.

And as you have listed: The sure replacements over the course of the next 3-4 years are centerback and leftback (maybe earlier, if Alba lose his speed).
Therefore it makes sense to scout extensively in those positions right now, so we can get lucky and get a replacement in time, if an opportunity is there. First step could very well be not to extend Vermaelen and bring in a preferably young replacement for him (which could be loaned out the season after the next if playingtime is too limited).

As I see it 'Messi at toplevel' is a bit onestringed, because he is surely peakperforming right now, but very dissimilar to what he has played before (with a deeper startingpoint now, less one-against-ones coming in from the flanks, less outruns of defenders etc.). What I mean is, that I actually believe he can take the role of Pirlo in his last years in Juventus, maybe as a double-pivot with Busquets or just in front of him. He won't lose his godgiven technique and vision, so providing golden assists and creating chances from deep should be no problem for him no matter how slow he gets, and therefore - if he chooses to - I think he can play at 33-36 years old (or even longer) at a very deep role.
 

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