Mavericky Puig

[Raketa10]

If Wijni comes, it will be 4-2-3-1 again with him and Frenkie being the '2' there.

I think it can work perfectly with none of them being fixated at DM, but rather having both play as box to box and one covering the other when joining the attack.
Having seen almost all Liverpool games since 2018, Wijni has performed similar attacking/defensive roles there many many times.
It can work perfectly.
Koeman has rightfully moved on from the static 4-3-3 of the recent years. When Busi gets parked permanently on the bench for a better player, the whole thing can reach higher standards

Have you watched our last 2 games? Our best games this season were in 4-3-3 formation.

 

[Birdy]

Our best games this season were in 4-3-3 formation.

I don't think it was 4-3-3 at all. It was 4-2-3-1 with Pedri retreating, and Frenkie having freedom to join attack, which made it look less rigid.

There were no interiors. Valverde and Setien tried last season to play 4-3-3 with Frenkie and Arthur/Raki/Vidal as interiors. If you compare, you will see the difference

 

[Raketa10]

I don't think it was 4-3-3 at all. It was 4-2-3-1 with Pedri retreating, and Frenkie having freedom to join attack, which made it look less rigid.

There were no interiors. Valverde and Setien tried last season to play 4-3-3 with Frenkie and Arthur/Raki/Vidal as interiors. If you compare, you will see the difference

We definitely didn't play 4-2-3-1 yesterday nor against Bilbao but I agree this 4-3-3 has nothing to do with those of Setien or Valverde. FDJ played much closer to the line yesterday than he did when we played with double pivot.

 

[JamDav1982]

Have you watched our last 2 games? Our best games this season were in 4-3-3 formation.

FDJ is as deep as Busquets and at times and then pops up in box.

Really not all the much difference from 4231 or 433 and moves between the two and even 451.

Folk are getting a bit fixated in the formations I think when it is about roles of the players that doesnt strictly stay in any of them.

Busi DM, Frenkie Box to Box and Pedri AM and could fit into 433 or 4231 really at any point of game.

 

[Raketa10]

I agree. We defend in 4-5-1 formation but I agree formation is irrelevant in the end. IMHO Pedri plays position similar to the one Iniesta played under Pep.

 

[Joan]

Koeman put himself in a position where he has to play youngsters. He let Rakitic and Vidal go, he asked Suarez to leave. Those were Valverde's undisputed starters. No reason to believe they'd leave if Valverde was still the coach, all the reasons in the world to believe that they'd still be here and would still be starters if Valverde was still the coach.

It seems like the initial plan for Pedri was to loan him out this season, but Koeman made him a starter instead. Koeman also brought a 19 years old Dest and shows him tremendous confidence. Koeman is also not afraid to start Mingueza and Araujo instead of Lenglet and Umtiti.

Valverde on the other hand, played old players and his transfer requests were the likes of Willian, Parejo, Murillo and Inigo Martinez.
He played non stop Coutinho on the wing who's horrible there, while he had Malcom and even Dembele when fit. Both were better than Coutinho. Arthur in his second season became a bench warmer, after a first promising year at Barcelona.

No need to rewrite history, Valverde wouldn't trust a youngster to save his life, except when the youngster is a generational talent (Ansu).

Now you're saying that Koeman has promising talents, it doesn't matter. You either believe the youngsters or you don't. Pep played Cuenca and Tello, both turned out to be trash but it doesn't matter, he still gave them a chance to prove themselves.
Maybe in 3 years, Dest, Mingueza, Araujo and Pedri will end up being flops, just like Alena. It's not like they are already proven players. There is still a possibility that they will fail. Koeman gives them confidence regardless of everything. That's how it works with youngsters.

Vidal started 3 out of 10 matches he played in the league in Valverde's last season with us. Far from an undisputed starter. Barca has a sporting director who makes lots of the decisions himself.

Koeman has, at the moment, not only promising but performing youngsters and that's the main reason they're playing. As it should be. If they fail in the future, will not change the fact they did well under Koeman and improved Barca. Valverde's bunch did not, and on top of that, all of them went on to have uninspiring careers. Mina, Alena, Marlon, and even Malcom who I'd rate the highest.

Takes some bravery to go out and trust youngsters. Much easier to do in a rebuilding phase, but I applaud Koeman for it. As probably everyone else, don't get who you're really arguing with.

But it's not easy to predict what Valverde would do with a talented group. As he didn't have one in his term here. You may hold an opinion, but these are just like assholes... you know the saying.

 

[Joan]

Valverde again? There was a quote (summer 2019) I posted by Barcelona B manager saying that it was the first time a coach visited their training session in years. Fati's introduction has more to do with circumstances and pure luck. Both Suarez and Dembele were injured, Malcom and Boateng were gone. EV's only choice was to look for players from Barca B and actually preferred Carles Perez over Fati but Fati did surprised everyone.

Why the fuck would he watch Barca B train? He kept inviting promising B team players to train with the first team to keep an eye on them. Also, there's this quote: "Ernesto Valverde was watching Barca B play against Real Sporting. It's been 2 and a half years since the coach of the first team has come to see them play." Happened at the beginning of his term. Also reported when he couldn't go, he would've sent his assistant. Does it show his will to trust youngsters? Hell no! But the opposite can't be back with such a ridiculous claim.

Gave chances to Fati whose potential he recognized in training and Perez. Nothing wrong with that, either.

 

[serghei]

Point is Valverde managed the team when the veterans had full-backing from the board. It was a lot harder back then to do what Koeman is doing now. It's fine, Valverde was a decent option for 2 years, bad in his 3rd year. Koeman seems to be a good option now.

Things settled decently, and the only regret is the CL humiliations in the end of the Amigos era.

 

[George_Costanza]

FDJ is as deep as Busquets and at times and then pops up in box.

Really not all the much difference from 4231 or 433 and moves between the two and even 451.

Folk are getting a bit fixated in the formations I think when it is about roles of the players that doesnt strictly stay in any of them.

Busi DM, Frenkie Box to Box and Pedri AM and could fit into 433 or 4231 really at any point of game.

Bingo, after all those nonsense posts of yours that made me feel less intelligent just by skimming them, you kinda got to know FDJ best role, but then you couldn't resist but ruin it because of your stubbornness. FDJ is not Box to Box player, he is more like a DM with the freedom to burst forward with the ball to exploit attacking opportunities especially on the left side. At Ajax he played under 4-3-3 formation, when attacking, he rotate with Schone (another DM), one of them advance forward while the other stays/drops between the central defenders (who move to recover in an advanced position). Schone his partner in DM position is another versatile player who plays DM/CM and AM even deployed as right winger. Schone was incredibly undervalued, very creative for a DM, very good at short passes in between players and helps the MF get out from under pressure. Somehow similar to Puig minus defensive duties.

Back to Puig, he can partner with FDJ in MF or share minutes with both FDJ & Pedri in a 4-3-3 formation. Still I don't want Busquets as starter.

 

[Joan]

Point is Valverde managed the team when the veterans had full-backing from the board. It was a lot harder back then to do what Koeman is doing now. It's fine, Valverde was a decent option for 2 years, bad in his 3rd year. Koeman seems to be a good option now.

Things settled decently, and the only regret is the CL humiliations in the end of the Amigos era.

That's right.

Neither Valverde hated youngsters and did all in his power to sabotage their careers, nor is Koeman all about giving kids chances. He asked for Wijnaldum and Depay, in the end. It's just what it is and coaches need to squeez the most out of it.

Both seem to fare fine in given circumstances.

 

[serghei]

That's right.

Neither Valverde hated youngsters and did all in his power to sabotage their careers, nor is Koeman all about giving kids chances. He asked for Wijnaldum and Depay, in the end. It's just what it is and coaches need to squeez the most out of it.

Both seem to fare fine in given circumstances.

The really bad judgment was last season. Should've done what we're doing now 1 year sooner. The board fucked up big time after Liverpool and have been scrambling all of last season.

I'd take Koeman for youngsters' development though instead of Valverde. He has one advantage over EV and that is the fact that he is a legend of the game and a Barca legend on top of that.

 

[Porque]

Puig needs everything to go through him and be involved in every action, runs after the ball to be the pick-up guy in every action. These are really great attributes when something is not working in a match, or as a rotation option for Pedri and Messi. Perhaps with that pair it will be a case of too many cooks when starting, but at the very least he has to be getting those Trincao minutes.

 

[Joan]

The really bad thing was last season. Should've done what we're doing now 1 year sooner.

Should've left after Liverpool as was obvious he had no future here. That's when the rebuild should've started.

 

[serghei]

Should've left after Liverpool as was obvious he had no future here. That's when the rebuild should've started.

The whole team looked done after that. A major reset should've happened, and the board just stood there and did nothing, and then did even worse by appointing Setien in the middle of the season. That set the 8-2 perfectly.

The board and the veterans fucked up big time, and I'm happy both are seemingly gone (or much reduced in influence in the case of the veterans).

 

[JamDav1982]

Bingo, after all those nonsense posts of yours that made me feel less intelligent just by skimming them, you kinda got to know FDJ best role, but then you couldn't resist but ruin it because of your stubbornness. FDJ is not Box to Box player, he is more like a DM with the freedom to burst forward with the ball to exploit attacking opportunities especially on the left side. At Ajax he played under 4-3-3 formation, when attacking, he rotate with Schone (another DM), one of them advance forward while the other stays/drops between the central defenders (who move to recover in an advanced position). Schone his partner in DM position is another versatile player who plays DM/CM and AM even deployed as right winger. Schone was incredibly undervalued, very creative for a DM, very good at short passes in between players and helps the MF get out from under pressure. Somehow similar to Puig minus defensive duties.

Back to Puig, he can partner with FDJ in MF or share minutes with both FDJ & Pedri in a 4-3-3 formation. Still I don't want Busquets as starter.

Pipe doon Georgie.

You are the one getting mocked for nonsense of last few days.

FDJ is a box to box player. Your shitty quote that had no relevance but a bad headline doesnt change it. He needs freedom to get up and down park and that is box to box.

The nearest to that at Ajax was from DM and more freedom in a two. At Barca he plays not far off that in his box to box of last few games.

Puig doesnt fit in a three with FDJ and Pedri... but please do tell how that would work.

Whether he is box to box in a 433 or 4231 is irrelevant as very similar role if has a DM with him.