Mavericky Puig

[Bobo32]

It is worse. It is a comparison of Puig to others to point that it is shown others have achieved a lot more and then the comparison becomes unfair...

You take it to such a ridiculously low level that it is tough to discuss anything.
Of course Gundogan has acheived more. 1000s of players have. (At 21, Gundogan played for N?rnberg still)
I am saying Puig is a better player than Gundogan. I am not trying to show to you that he is better than anyone, though, as you won't understand anything until it bites you in the face.
You didn't understand Xavi was better than Lampard in 2005, to you it just sort of happened out of circumstance that Xavi suddenly became a bit better and destroyed football.

 

[JamDav1982]

You take it to such a ridiculously low level that it is tough to discuss anything.
Of course Gundogan has acheived more. 1000s of players have. (At 21, Gundogan played for N?rnberg still)
I am saying Puig is a better player than Gundogan. I am not trying to show to you that he is better than anyone, though, as you won't understand anything until it bites you in the face.
You didn't understand Xavi was better than Lampard in 2005, to you it just sort of happened out of circumstance that Xavi suddenly became a bit better and destroyed football.

Your argument is 'Puig is better because I say so and not based on any achievements on pitch'.

That is about as low a level as it gets.

Same shit pretending you watched Barca in 2005 and others thought Lampard better than Xavi. That argument is your lamest of the lot.

Same Xavi you knew so much about and claimed Senna was Spains best player at Euro 2008 and Xavi career changed after that. Away and play Football Manager and stop trying to comment on things you didnt even witness.

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

Anyways, I just came here to mention how everyone said I was “naive” for talking about basing our future around a Puig-de Jong-Pedri midfield in the Rebuild thread a couple of months ago and the minute they play together, they put on 30 mins of the best football we have played in years.

The kid does not need to be Xavi to be a success here so please stop with these comparisons. In terms of end product, he clearly has the vision and timing of the pass down, he just needs to improve his execution which will come with time and playing experience. Compared to Pedri, his time in Las Palmas helped him polish his end product and that is why he hit the ground running once he got his chances here. I see this season for Puig as the same for Pedri last season for Las Palmas: getting first team playing time and experience, gaining confidence in himself and learning what he needs to improve on to reach a world-class level.

Puig specifically has so many things you cannot teach. Especially when it comes to his final passing, he is often picking out the right pass and attempting it at the right time. Again, with experience, it will start coming off more and the assists will come.

Just give him some more time.

 

[Porque]

I recall being on another forum during the Xavi vs Lampard years and the majority of Barcelona fans (probably all) defended Xavi and thought he was better. The Stamford Beach games didn't help though (and that midfield giveaway for one of the Chelsea goals didn't help especially).

The only major debate was Xavi/Iniesta co-existing and giving Van Bommel more opportunities as he gave more solidarity in away games.

Back to Puig and the final ball (on the phone so can't find the quote easily). The looping overpass has an incredibly low success rate and is tediously over tried. Puig has the opportunity to increase his assists as he is now surrounded with better players than at the B team and is still developing. But if you seen his games in the past seasons at Barcelona B (and one of the seasons was in Segunda like Last Palmas) you would be shocked with the number of times he was in good positions and failed to decide on the final pass option and when he did, failed to pull it off.

Lower in the pitch and where he can combine he can be great though, and I am glad to see he has finally passed the hump and will feature much more in the last half of the season.

Same with Trincao as it seems we are moving from a squad of 13 players Koeman trusts to a squad of 15- excluding those injured longterm like Pique and Ansu.

 

[Bobo32]

Your argument is 'Puig is better because I say so and not based on any achievements on pitch'.

That is about as low a level as it gets.

Same shit pretending you watched Barca in 2005 and others thought Lampard better than Xavi. That argument is your lamest of the lot.

Same Xavi you knew so much about and claimed Senna was Spains best player at Euro 2008 and Xavi career changed after that. Away and play Football Manager and stop trying to comment on things you didnt even witness.

No, not because I say so, but because that's the way it looks when he plays.
Of course he hasn't shown enough yet for the likes of you to rate him correctly. You probably didn't rate 31 y.o Gundogan as a top 30 midfielder ever in his carreer before now, either.
I did not say Senna was their best player 2008, I said he was crucial. Why is it you posters with the highest tone of voices always misread and draw the wrong conclusions?

 

[te amo barca]

Anyways, I just came here to mention how everyone said I was “naive” for talking about basing our future around a Puig-de Jong-Pedri midfield in the Rebuild thread a couple of months ago and the minute they play together, they put on 30 mins of the best football we have played in years.

The kid does not need to be Xavi to be a success here so please stop with these comparisons. In terms of end product, he clearly has the vision and timing of the pass down, he just needs to improve his execution which will come with time and playing experience. Compared to Pedri, his time in Las Palmas helped him polish his end product and that is why he hit the ground running once he got his chances here. I see this season for Puig as the same for Pedri last season for Las Palmas: getting first team playing time and experience, gaining confidence in himself and learning what he needs to improve on to reach a world-class level.

Puig specifically has so many things you cannot teach. Especially when it comes to his final passing, he is often picking out the right pass and attempting it at the right time. Again, with experience, it will start coming off more and the assists will come.

Just give him some more time.

You're still being naive if you think that midfield can do well against strong teams that would press them. This midfield is good enough for games against the lower half of the table at home or in situations when we badly need a goal. Moreover, De Jong at CDM at this point limits his attacking prowess. Having De Jong, Pedri and Puig as options for the two interior roles is great anyway. Add to this Nico, Ilaix, Gavi and other CM prospects we have and it's a really exciting future.

 

[JamDav1982]

Anyways, I just came here to mention how everyone said I was “naive” for talking about basing our future around a Puig-de Jong-Pedri midfield in the Rebuild thread a couple of months ago and the minute they play together, they put on 30 mins of the best football we have played in years.

The kid does not need to be Xavi to be a success here so please stop with these comparisons. In terms of end product, he clearly has the vision and timing of the pass down, he just needs to improve his execution which will come with time and playing experience. Compared to Pedri, his time in Las Palmas helped him polish his end product and that is why he hit the ground running once he got his chances here. I see this season for Puig as the same for Pedri last season for Las Palmas: getting first team playing time and experience, gaining confidence in himself and learning what he needs to improve on to reach a world-class level.

Puig specifically has so many things you cannot teach. Especially when it comes to his final passing, he is often picking out the right pass and attempting it at the right time. Again, with experience, it will start coming off more and the assists will come.

Just give him some more time.

It wasnt anywhere near the best the mid had played in years and FDJ was off half way through.

Dont think Pedri played all that great yesterday either bar that one pass.

The midfield got so much space they were strolling it really.

Puig played well though.

 

[vegitot]

You take it to such a ridiculously low level that it is tough to discuss anything.
Of course Gundogan has acheived more. 1000s of players have. (At 21, Gundogan played for N?rnberg still)
I am saying Puig is a better player than Gundogan. I am not trying to show to you that he is better than anyone, though, as you won't understand anything until it bites you in the face.
You didn't understand Xavi was better than Lampard in 2005, to you it just sort of happened out of circumstance that Xavi suddenly became a bit better and destroyed football.

Prove Puig is better than Gundogan. My case for Gundogan ?d simple: more goals, more assits, more key passes... More greater performance vs good teams (not Alaves lol).

Puig would only dream to have a performance like Gundogan vs Real and Bayern in 2013.

 

[vegitot]

No, not because I say so, but because that's the way it looks when he plays.
Of course he hasn't shown enough yet for the likes of you to rate him correctly. You probably didn't rate 31 y.o Gundogan as a top 30 midfielder ever in his carreer before now, either.
I did not say Senna was their best player 2008, I said he was crucial. Why is it you posters with the highest tone of voices always misread and draw the wrong conclusions?

Lol now your trying to twist your comment. Go back a few pages you said Euro 2008 was all of Senna, not Xavi.

Claim rated Xavi higher in 2005 than Lampard but no post or anything in 2005 from you to back up your opinion. You are trying to embrass yourself here.

 

[Bobo32]

I recall being on another forum during the Xavi vs Lampard years and the majority of Barcelona fans (probably all) defended Xavi and thought he was better. The Stamford Beach games didn't help though (and that midfield giveaway for one of the Chelsea goals didn't help especially).

The only major debate was Xavi/Iniesta co-existing and giving Van Bommel more opportunities as he gave more solidarity in away games.

Back to Puig and the final ball (on the phone so can't find the quote easily). The looping overpass has an incredibly low success rate and is tediously over tried. Puig has the opportunity to increase his assists as he is now surrounded with better players than at the B team and is still developing. But if you seen his games in the past seasons at Barcelona B you would be shocked with the number of times he was in good positions and failed to decide on the final pass option and when he did, failed to pull it off.

Lower in the pitch and where he can combine he can be great though, and I am glad to see he has finally passed the hump and will feature much more in the last half of the season.

Same with Trincao as it seems we are moving from a squad of 13 players Koeman trusts to a squad of 15- excluding those injured longterm like Pique and Ansu.

I did not watch any Barca B, I can believe you about the final ball.
I thought he played more urgently in Barca A in order to snag a assist to get more playing time, or on the direct orders of Koeman.
If this is his true style, I think he needs to change it a bit in order to be a true top5 midfielder.

Yeah back then most Barcelona fans understood Xavi was better, and quite a few (including me) wanted the Xavi-Iniesta-Deco midfield more often.
It was fans of other teams who thought Lampard was obviously better, but they were more quiet after 2008-2012...
I am a bit surprised to see Barcelona fans in 2021 not being able to say that Xavi was just always the better player.

 

[vegitot]

I did not watch any Barca B, I can believe you about the final ball.
I thought he played more urgently in Barca A in order to snag a assist to get more playing time, or on the direct orders of Koeman.
If this is his true style, I think he needs to change it a bit in order to be a true top5 midfielder.

Yeah back then most Barcelona fans understood Xavi was better, and quite a few (including me) wanted the Xavi-Iniesta-Deco midfield more often.
It was fans of other teams who thought Lampard was obviously better, but they were more quiet after 2008-2012...
I am a bit surprised to see Barcelona fans in 2021 not being able to say that Xavi was just always the better player.

Lol. From someone who consider Xavi is less creative than Puig. Nonsense.
Don't say something you didn't do. You don't have any thing to prove your thought back in 2005. No post or whatever available on Internet or somewhere else. Like i could predict in 2006 Messi will score 73 goals in 2011/2012.

 

[Bobo32]

These posters are like hyenas, attacking with misunderstandings and telling me to "prove" that one player is better than the other.
I don't want to shit up these threads too much by triggering them, but here is what I wrote about Xavi in the NT and Senna:

"In the NT he was seen with some suspicion IIRC, until the first gold. In Euro 2004 he was in the squad but did not play, Albelda+Baraja were playing instead (don't remember if there was a reason, but they played 4-2-3-1). 2006 with Aragones he played, although many thought Fabregas should've played more instead. 2008 had very much to do with Senna overperforming btw, it was Del Bosques spain that really showed Xavis (or his styles) potential fully."

Xavi was 26 in 2006 when he was given trust by Aragones, but it didn't work out then. In 2008 Senna had a dmc performance probably even better than Mascherano in WC, he was dominating defensively, giving Xavi even more freedom. Was Xavi the better player? Yes probably, just as he was in 2004, but how do you compare a ball winner to an offensive midfielder?

Of course goals, assists or key passes are not what you judge a central midfielder on.

 

[vegitot]

Here is one of Opta index rating back then (2002/03 season). Just a bit but it shows how good Xavi was.
Puig never score in any kind of rating. Not Opta, not Whoscored or whatever rate him by varies metric.

 

[vegitot]

These posters are like hyenas, attacking with misunderstandings and telling me to "prove" that one player is better than the other.
I don't want to shit up these threads too much by triggering them, but here is what I wrote about Xavi in the NT and Senna:

"In the NT he was seen with some suspicion IIRC, until the first gold. In Euro 2004 he was in the squad but did not play, Albelda+Baraja were playing instead (don't remember if there was a reason, but they played 4-2-3-1). 2006 with Aragones he played, although many thought Fabregas should've played more instead. 2008 had very much to do with Senna overperforming btw, it was Del Bosques spain that really showed Xavis (or his styles) potential fully."

Xavi was 26 in 2006 when he was given trust by Aragones, but it didn't work out then. In 2008 Senna had a dmc performance probably even better than Mascherano in WC, he was dominating defensively, giving Xavi even more freedom. Was Xavi the better player? Yes probably, just as he was in 2004, but how do you compare a ball winner to an offensive midfielder?

Of course goals, assists or key passes are not what you judge a central midfielder on.

You said Euro 2008 is all about Senna overperfroming yet Xavi was the best player of tournament. So what is your point??? Obviously you discredit Xavi as if he was a mediocre player that was carried by Senna in 2008.
Xavi just back from injury to play in 2006 world cup.
And please show me how Puig is better than Gundogan, more creative than Xavi. Still waiting.

 

[vegitot]

Xavi in 2009/10 season: 3.5 key pass per 90, 1.06 through ball completed per 90.
Xavi in 2008/09: 20 assists (record till Messi broke it last season), 124 chances created in Liga, 41 chances created in UCL, 30 assists in all comps.
Xavi in 2010 world cup: 30 chances created (second most in history), 20 through ball (most in 2010 world cup), highest pass completed in the final third, most passes completed in World cup history
Xavi in 2012: 25 chances created (most), 2 through ball assists, most passes in final third with 212 passes.

Bobo32: Xavi was not creative. Puig is more.

Gosh