Mavericky Puig
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CatalinR10
Senior Member
not bad of a game for the 45 kg kid
serghei
Senior Member
Depends how fast he is. Speed is arguably even more important than physical force. The real deadly combo for CL is slow and physically weak.
If Puig is fast and very agile with top class technique, he will probably not face many pure physical duels during matches.
Unless he's trying to physically take someone on, that's a non issue. At speed his close control and feints will do much more than having an Adama like physique
mesiesta
Senior Member
https://www.squawka.com/en/barcelon...LSPNPyaYJ7z-JcK_uALhLxg9J83dCrpGOHnHgYq95k-uY
Vidal should learn something from this.
Vidal should learn something from this.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Out of those 3, you get 0,5 player who can play well positionally in defense and who can tackle a player.
That lineup seems ok for Camp Nou matches against weak teams, but even then Frenkie-Arthur duo seems too sterile if you want to score some goals.
On the other hand, imagine that trio against RM away, Atletico away or Liverpool when we don't have the ball.
Lol.
This team just needs one Vidal/Raki to balance a lot of areas.
Attacking, defending, running, some physique.
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Too exaggerated. But i agree with you that team needs some physique on midfield.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
When we had Xavi-Iniesta, they were so good that you could field them against ANY opponent.
Home: vs strong teams
Home: vs weak teams
Away: vs strong teams
Away: vs weak teams
So, people got used to that idea of having a gala 11 and they were playing in all circumstances.
During Rijkaard, for example, he rotated players based on the opponents.
At home, he used to play Xavi-Deco+pivot, since we needed more possession and we had to risk more.
On away matches, more often something like one out of Xavi-Deco, paired with Van Bommel/Motta+Edmilson and similar.
Or in a CL, against English teams who were physical and used a lot of crosses, he usually used: Edmilson-Van Bommel/Motta-Deco combo. (He was going for physique, height and more dirty players).
On the other hand, when he played against less physical teams like Milan and Porto, he used Deco-Iniesta+pivot combination.
He had his own formula against a certain type of opponents. For example, he never started Iniesta (iirc) against English teams in 2006. Yet, he always used him against other teams.
In that sense, since we don't have perfect players, it would be wiser to have 4-5-6 midfielders with different skills and approach every game differently.
If we play at Camp Nou against an 18th placed team, then we need someone like Puig paired with another more attacking midfielder like Pjanic, Vidal or even Raki.
Frenkie-Arthur is quite useless combination against weaker teams. You just get possession and not too much forward passes.
On the other hand, if you play against Atletico, they you won't field Puig-Pjanic-Busi but something like Busi-Frenkie-Raki/Vidal/Pjanic.
But again, majority of fans here started to watch Barca during Pep, and Pep's Barca was really a weird era, yet people think that majority of things from that era "are normal" and how we always played.
1. La Masia worked only then
2. that was the only time when we didn't need to buy too many players since we had 5-6 La Masia gems, so we weren't as bad on transfers like in other eras
3. we had Busi-Xavi-Iniesta, so there wasn't a need for midfield rotations at all
4. since our midfield was perfect (and short), we adopted a style which fitted to those 3 players etc
My point: a lot of things back then were: a huge luck (golden La Masia generation, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busi) so we adjusted to it and we were able to act differently than today and differently than other top clubs.
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DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
It seems like you're conflating the idea that because Xavi/Iniesta were small, that they were constantly losing physical/pressing duels but made up for it on the other end due to their offensive wizardry. But they weren't, the 2011 midget team wasn't getting steamrolled in physical pressure and making up for it with good technique or offense.
They were WINNING the pressure battles defensively against other teams. Teams that were bigger/stronger/more brutal like RM with Alonso/Khedira/Lass/etc.
That's because those small guys like Xavi/Iniesta/Pedro/younger Messi were highly active in shutting down the space and pressuring the opponent to make errors. Any player ahead of the back 5 doesn't necessarily need to be an elite Vidal/Alonso/Casemiro type of ball winner they just need to pressure relentlessly to force errors. As long as the unit does this collectively, it is a highly effective system. In fact it's better defensively to have 5 tiny guys who press like rabid dogs instead of 3 who don't and 2 who are massive/strong and are capable of winning the ball. The most effective defense is team defense and this is shown in every major team sport.
For those front 5 offensive players, it is a matter of cardio and aggressiveness. Puig shows this in spades and constantly runs at the opposition players even if he is not gonna bully them shoulder to shoulder. And even then, the aggressive pressing does lead to ball recoveries from those forced errors.
The kid has 3 tackles and 3 interceptions in 75 minutes in La Liga
. The bigger issue with his physique is that he's gonna get bullied hard on the ball, rather than him being a liability off the ball in defense.
serghei
Senior Member
Some things are just misinterpreted. Here's the key thing of defending. Shutting down passing options and pressuring the opponent. At no team in the world, the players generally attempt dribbles in dangerous areas. So, no matter how small you are, if the team is fast, and has good stamina, and uses very good tactics, you can pressure opponents and force them into rash decisions, thus winning the ball.
So, in other words, speed, quickness, stamina are more important than height and muscle mass.
So, in other words, speed, quickness, stamina are more important than height and muscle mass.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
DonAndres, 2011's team played against the lightest opponents of all time.
Arsenal, a little Barca
Shakhtar Donetsk, lol
Real Madrid, a Spanish team
Man Utd with 442 and 40 years old Giggs as a CM
No offense to 2011's team, but against these opponents, even EV's team with Suarez and a magical trio Busi-Raki-Vidal would win a CL.
Not in such a fashion, but still...
Some of you are forgetting that during Pep Seria A had Juve in lower divisions and Milan bankrupted.
Historically, the biggest loosers, chokers and bottlers of Seria A, Inter were a champion.
Bayern was in the weakest state in the last 15 years.
P$g wasn't taken over by Quatar.
Epl wasn't as rich as today.
So:
1. We had a golden La Masia generation
2. Messi was young, hungry and able to run and dribble
3. The opponents in general were weaker than today
4. The opponents weren't as physical as today
5. Teams were still confused about how to stop TikiTaka
Even that magical team lost almost all duels against physical teams.
Chelsea 2009
Inter 2010
Chelsea 2012
Back then, we faced 0 or 1 physical team in knockout rounds.
And still lost almost every single tie.
Today, we would face 2-3 similar teams before a final, let's say: Atletico, Bayern, Juve, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham.
Even our best team ever was questionable agsinst physical opponents.
Yet, we will never have Xavi-Iniesta, not to mention Messi.
Plus, there are more rich clubs today.
And teams went down physical route in the last 10 years.
My previous post was about rotations in general.
But since you asked, let's repeat for the 1001th time, Pep's style is not the way to go in a CL in 2025 or 2030.
That was a perfect moment, with perfect players, with somewhat weak opponents and while teams didn't figure out yet how to play against us.
It will repeat, well... absolutely never again.
Especially not with weak copies of Pep's players (who also couldn't cope with physical teams).
Arsenal, a little Barca
Shakhtar Donetsk, lol
Real Madrid, a Spanish team
Man Utd with 442 and 40 years old Giggs as a CM
No offense to 2011's team, but against these opponents, even EV's team with Suarez and a magical trio Busi-Raki-Vidal would win a CL.
Not in such a fashion, but still...
Some of you are forgetting that during Pep Seria A had Juve in lower divisions and Milan bankrupted.
Historically, the biggest loosers, chokers and bottlers of Seria A, Inter were a champion.
Bayern was in the weakest state in the last 15 years.
P$g wasn't taken over by Quatar.
Epl wasn't as rich as today.
So:
1. We had a golden La Masia generation
2. Messi was young, hungry and able to run and dribble
3. The opponents in general were weaker than today
4. The opponents weren't as physical as today
5. Teams were still confused about how to stop TikiTaka
Even that magical team lost almost all duels against physical teams.
Chelsea 2009
Inter 2010
Chelsea 2012
Back then, we faced 0 or 1 physical team in knockout rounds.
And still lost almost every single tie.
Today, we would face 2-3 similar teams before a final, let's say: Atletico, Bayern, Juve, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham.
Even our best team ever was questionable agsinst physical opponents.
Yet, we will never have Xavi-Iniesta, not to mention Messi.
Plus, there are more rich clubs today.
And teams went down physical route in the last 10 years.
My previous post was about rotations in general.
But since you asked, let's repeat for the 1001th time, Pep's style is not the way to go in a CL in 2025 or 2030.
That was a perfect moment, with perfect players, with somewhat weak opponents and while teams didn't figure out yet how to play against us.
It will repeat, well... absolutely never again.
Especially not with weak copies of Pep's players (who also couldn't cope with physical teams).
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