Munir El Haddadi

[Flavia]

He couldn't lose many games to win la Liga since pep days and to a lesser extent ricky rijkaard.

Luissso that's no excuse, Barcelona wins a good share of there games handly and that the time in which u throw a kid with real potential on and see if he can make the step up.

I was no big fan of munir, coming up through the ranks. As the season progresses even as msn was dead on the feet, no one is saying get into the starting XI. At least I'm sure I'm not, if a players does that from masia. He is going to have to be very special.

Simple give the kids some real minutes, in real games and see how the handle the pressure, not every single one, but those everyone can see had a bit of potential.

Putting a young player to play dying minutes of a won game is no way to develop them. And it's not that "simple", anyway, when there are better players ahead of them. And which players are those with real potential? I don't see any talent like Xavi or Iniesta in la masia now. Just wishful thinking some might turn out that good. Xavi and Iniesta showed glances of genius since their debuts.

 

[serghei]

Pep bought 24 years old Affelay and 22 years old Chygrinsky also, young players at the time, instead of trusting youth from Cantera. Get real guys, the only players he really trusted, the ones he played constantly were Busi, Pedro and Pique. All three were solid from the start.

His most used midfield sub was Seydou Keita, and that when he didn't play as a starter.

 

[Flavia]

So buy-back or no buy-back? That's all I want to know.

I read elsewhere that some said we could hope that Munir will say no to Valencia if they do buy him. That's way too wishy washy and risky to me.

There's no guarantee Valencia will even want to spend 12m on him. He could flop there and be back too. I think he's good, but I might be in the minority who doesn't think he'll be that good one day.

Pep bought 24 years old Affelay and 22 years old Chygrinsky also, young players at the time, instead of trusting youth from Cantera. Get real guys, the only players he really trusted, the ones he played constantly are Busi, Pedro and Pique. All three were solid from the start.

His most used midfield sub was Seydou Keita, and that when he didn't play as a starter.

Spot on. This myth really grew since Pep left.

 

[serghei]

Who signed Caceres as well, wasn't Pep? Who signed 24 years old Cesc Fabregas and snubed Thiago? Surely Pep. Who signed 34m. and 22 years old chilian player Alexis Sanchez instead of promoting youth? Also Pep.

 

[jamrock]

I'm on my phone now, so I can't get into the research to see how much minutes bartra got then compare to barca now, and forgive me for any typos.

But I remember bartra getting a fair amount of playing time for player that was fresh out of the b team, back then. If not still b team player. I think he only of officially promoted after pep left if memory serves me right.

And again just to reiterate, I am not saying munir or whoever else who be a starter, I am barely saying give them actual minutes in actual competitive games and see how they do, and not just preseason games, and see how the handle it.

I'm not saying luis should he pep, he isn't in that class, but give the kids a chance. Not just munir,so let's forget that, I'm talking about kids with real talent like samper or a munir,thats coming through the ranks

 

[JamDav1982]

By my calculations Munir at 20 has played more games for Barca under Lucho than Barta, Montoya and Roberto had at the same age combined under Pep.

Doesnt quite fit the 'no chance to good youngsters these days' approach.

 

[serghei]

By my calculations Munir at 20 has played more games for Barca under Lucho than Barta, Montoya and Roberto had at the same age combined under Pep.

Doesnt quite fit the 'no chance to good youngsters these days' approach.

Because it's rubbish, it doesn't exist unless we get into the likes of Busquets, and claim they played without being very good at the time, but because Pep was in love with young La Masia players. If we get to that point, it's bad news.

Setting aside Busi level talents, and comparing similar talents from now, with similar talents from Pep's time, it's exactly the same approach.

 

[JamDav1982]

As far as I can see when Pep left in 2012 -

Barta 21 years old and had played 8 times.

Roberto was 20 and played 7 games. Younger than Munir by a few months.

Motoya was 21 and had played 12 games.

Munir has played 45 games at 20 under Lucho and others but not given a chance compared to players in past?

Would need to work it out better but at season Thiago finished at 20 under Pep he had played 20 games. Although he was younger than Munir.

 

[BBZ8800]

I like how those who are arguing against the development of players are making the argument, that those of use who is saying give the players a chance want Barcelona to become a arsenal,thats not the point and it's kinda silly and over simplistic to say if you give young players a chance we can't win.

Mi one is saying put out and entire la masia XI,its a simple matter of giving players who have a bit of real potential actually playing time to develop, could bartra not be giving more minutes and so on.

If the player shows he has potential don't he like Tito and Luis and player your best xi damn near very single minute of every single game, because the players on the bench aren't established professionals. Give the kids a chance to prove themselves and if they don't take it. You ship them on.

But players are getting chances.

Sandro got a chance=he is not good enough.
If we continued with him or gave him more minutes=maybe we would lose La liga

Munir=the same
Samper currently=the same
Rafinha=the same
Montoya=the same
Etc

It seems that we need to repeat every few weeks that La Masia is not as golden as people think, and it was very overrated and overhyped in the last 10 years due to Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pique, Fabregas...
Media and internet forums created an urban myth how La Masia is a magic place, 10 times better than any other youth academy in the world (Real's, Man utd's, Chelsea'a, Juve's), as if other teams are idiots and can't create shit, while we will create golden eggs and Xavis and Messis each new season. And all we have to do is to give chances to these, out of this world, golden egg talents. Well...

We had La Masia always, and it was more or less crap, poor or average.
Always.
Not because Bteam coaches, scouts or xx were poor.
La Masia was average or equal to any youth academy of other teams like Milan, Juve, Inter, Real, Man Utd, Bayern etc.
Sometimes you get a gem, on majority of years you get only a squad depth player or bunch of Montoyas.

About Xavi and Iniesta, Barca was a mess in those years and it was easier to rely on world class youth when you had nothing to lose, compared to the current era when we are chasing sixtuples in each season.
So, no, we can't give chances to Kaptoums and Grimaldos in order to see how will they develop in the current era.

Also, Xavi/Iniesta/Messi were miles better than all current players.
If people think that Denis is making an impact today, well, his displays are a joke compared to how Xavi/Iniesta played in his age in the 1st team.

Messi aged 18 was better than his direct competitor, 30 years old former Monaco's captain, NT player Guily.
Where are Munirs, Sampers and others today compared to their competitors?
Messi aged 18 was better than direct competitor, while Samper is what? 4th best option as a Cdm, lol (Busi, Roberto, Masch, Samper).

So, giving chances to Sampers and Munirs is quite different than given chances to Xavi/Iniesta/Messi and other simply because these guys were waaaaaaaay better players from the early age. NOT because they were given chances, but because they simply had way more potential and higher ceiling.

Imo, people are still too emotional and think that each La Masia player is the same=he is a golden boy, with insane potential and all we need is to give him chances and he will develop into a next Barca's starter (for the next 10 years).

Some people here are blaming our evil board for not giving chances to some youngsters, but imo, Adama, Sandro, probably Deulofeu, probably Munir, probably even Halil and others=not only that they won't be Barca's level one day. It is very questionable whether they will be Tottenham's or Roma's level one day (Munir, Deulofeu and Halil have some chances).

So, the board wasn't BAD because we didn't have faith in Deulo and Adama.
Those people realized the potential and a ceiling of our youngsters and we sold them.
Of course, there will always be 1 guy out of 10 or 20 who will eventually turn into a great player, but that's how it goes...

On the other hand, if Roberto (even though he is good at a RB) is our best prospect from the last 5 years, that says more than enough how poor our youth academy players were in the current era compared to a lucky Xavi-Iniesta-Messi era.

I agree with [MENTION=20103]Flavia[/MENTION] here.
If we gave more chances to Kaptoums, Grimaldos, Rafinhas, Sampers, Munirs and similar, we would soon turn into a 2nd tier European team.
Not exactly of Arsenal's level since they are truly horrible, but we would deteriorate a lot...

 

[serghei]

This approach is the best. Combined stars with young players, some from La Masia, some from other teams, but still having that desire to be part of FC Barcelona. Only thing we have to do now, is distribute the minutes better, because Umtiti, Andre Gomes, Denis Suarez, Paco Alcacer, Arda Turan, these are players that can be starters at a team like Arsenal for example. We have to give them minutes or this incredibly strong squad we're building will start to crumble in less than a year.

A top squad is amazing, but it's also hard to keep. I'm mostly worried we'll have attitude problems with all of the MSN if we sub them or bench them while they play great football. I hope they'll forget about the MSN, the trio, the records and shit like that, and realize we have 5 top attacking players in front now, not only 3. With the form Turan is in, and now with Alcacer, man, these are 80m. players right there. You have to use them, and I'm not talking about games vs Terragona or some 3rd division team in Copa games.

If you guys notice, MSN got better numbers last season than the season before, but our team was worse than in 2014-15. I prefer it the other way around. Better for Barcelona with lower numbers from Messi, Neymar and Suarez. Lucho will have to show he is in charge, and managing Messi, Neymar and Suarez, subbing one of them, or two of them will be difficult. We can always align Arda - Alcacer - Messi if we want to now. That trio is solid enough to win just about every game in Spain minus Real and Atletico derbies. Maybe even those as well on a great day.

 

[Sepuldinho]

So any buyback option? Sad to see him go tbh.

 

[opjeoff]

That's the point, pep gave players like jeffern a real chance to prove themselves.

Denis wasn't given s chance he was farmed out to another club to be developed, only after he is almost the finish product does Luis have any interest in him.

One Aldi gets the feeling that if Rafa was here and not playing with him at celta, he would get the same treatment.

He just can't manage the responsibility of winning and developing young players it's one or the other with him.

One gets the feeling he just lucked into Roberto at right back.

The whole point is managers like pep,gave players we all knew wasn't good enough for Barcelona a fair chance to prove themselves, in real competitive games, not just preseason.

Pep player Roberto in the clasico, Luis would die before he does something like that, Luis would rather run the players into the ground, than give a young player chance, in a game where we are 10-0 up after 30 minutes.-

It's a shame what he and this new board is doing to la masia, a real shame.

what the hell are you talking about? It was Lucho who played Roberto in the El Clasico last year.

He didnt luck Roberto into RB because no one thought Roberto could even play there until Lucho played him there, if he was as bad as you make him sound then he wouldnt have found a way to include Roberto into the team.

 

[God Serena]

But players are getting chances.

Sandro got a chance=he is not good enough.
If we continued with him or gave him more minutes=maybe we would lose La liga

Munir=the same
Samper currently=the same
Rafinha=the same
Montoya=the same
Etc

Alena= the same

Come at me, bro.

 

[jamrock]

The games argument is the same one, the same people used when Tito basically have away Thiago for free, we already dismissed that argument back then, so I won't even debate that again.

I will say again, it's about giving players who show potential enough actual proper minutes on the field to see if they can swim or sink, and with the amount of games barca wins handly plus the amount of games, that's a foregone conclusion we play at the new camp,that isn't a entirely different preposition, if the manage is the less bit interested.

I look forgone to someone giving me a long list of games Barcelona won by 1-0 or there and about, while ignoring the obvious true, that at least 10 games every season we know the result without even watching it.

 

[Barcaman]

Is there or isn't there a buyback for Barca?