Ousmane Dembélé

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Arizona Scott

New member
dembele made some explosive and positive plays last year no other barca player could make. what we don't know is whether he can play relatively injury free and consistent for a period of time. dude has only been here 2 years and injured from training and game time half of it--jury is out on him as a barca player and world footballer. that is more promise than most u23s (ok not than mbappe), so lets reserve judgement for now unless he is bought for a excessive fee.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
So how does that explain BBZ claiming that Malcom would be an instant success at Barca and replace Dembele because "he was an alpha" with a "look in his eyes that Dembele" lacked? (I can bring the quotes if you want)

Does that sound like a "prediction method and logic" that you'd place "value" in? The guy literally hits wrong on every single one of his projections but I'm supposed to take him seriously in his assessments of Dembele? The same guy who was literally claiming that Rafinha was a better fit for Barca than Dembele earlier during the season?

You have reading problems or something.

When Malcom came, I have said after his meeting with his teammates that from his body language you can see that he is kind of Alpha, confident and motivated as a person.
So, from the start he had some mental traits which Dembele doesn't posses.

Sadly, it turned out that Malcom has good mental traits but lacks talent to play for Barca.
On the other hand, Dembele has talent but horrible mental skills, not only IQ.

So, more or less, they are both "broken" and people will realize that over time.

Anyway, your posts are: he said this, he said that.
You are dismissing other users due to previous mistakes, yet you aren't offering anything meaningfull.
You don't get an importance of personality and IQ at all.
Yet, you are dismissing me because I had faith in Coutinho, lol.
World class debating, mate.

The other user posted remark about me and Neymar, lol.
Neymar is an overhyped clown who is more show than essence in 80-90% of matches.

On some days, like in 2015 and against Psg, he is awesome.
On 80% of other matches, he is a player who costs 200+ Millions and a team plays equally as good or bad when he is on the pitch or when he is not playing.

Barca won 2 La ligas in 4 years with Neymar.
And got knocked in 3 quarters of a CL in 4 years.
Brasil has just won the first Copa America in Neymar's career... when he even wasn't in a team due to an injury.

Even when Neymar was here, except in 2015, our team usually had a highest percentage od wins when he was not on a field than when he was playing.

So, tell me more about Neymar.
A guy is a Goat for Youtube compilations and Instagram.

For actual results, a guy is almost a non factor.
He looks awesome on paper.
And as a non factor for the actual results in reality.
 
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Potroh

New member
It seems you simply cannot stop your saga of hatred and showing off your absolute blindness when it comes to judging players by their ACTUAL footballing skills. All right...
You see, I'm retired, have a lot of time, no games to watch, it's off-season, so I promise I will answer EACH and EVERY brainless fart by you!
I hope you will enjoy that, at least as much as your repetitive eructations make me laugh and angry at the same time...

You have reading problems or something.

Not my actual task to defend other users, but it seems the reading problems do not avoid you either. It's not the fact that you are wrong at least 85% of times, with highly questionable opinions and twisted-statistics, but you simply won't read between the lines, which usually make you think that apart from a very few guys here, there's anyone who will be persuaded by your biased and emotionally driven essays.

When Malcom came, I have said after his meeting with his teammates that from his body language you can see that he is kind of Alpha, confident and motivated as a person.

Mistake No.1 on your side.
You should rather observe the actual qualities of different players. "Body language" tells nothing, worth nothing.
Look at the "body language" of C.Ronaldo and you will see that absolutely apart from his actual footballing skills, his off ball movements just represent self-assurance, egoism, arrogance, cockiness, complacency, conceitedness, etc.
He is a very good player, but his "body language" is rather marketing than footballing skills.

You don't get an importance of personality and IQ at all.

Because your twisted and imaginary definitions of "personality" and "IQ" do NOT exist on a football field.

World class debating, mate.

Once again not my task to judge, but YOUR opinion is definitely low-class. I wish I was wrong, in that case it would be possible to discuss certain intricacies of the game, but it is, alas, impossible with you.

Neymar is an overhyped clown who is more show than essence in 80-90% of matches.

1. Neymar is the technically highest and most skillful player on the planet at present. If you can't see that - your problem but no need to argue that.
2. A clown is an artist in a circus. If Neymar is an actual clown in your eyes, you should consider yourself being the clown of this forum.
3. If you still have the fake idea that a footballer can only be judged by his ACTUAL PERFORMANCES in a series, in a tournament, then you once again have no clue about this game.

So learn it: the best players are NOT ALWAYS the most EFFECTIVE players in a single game, in a league or tournament. Sometimes (like Messi with his home NT) the best players are NOT the most effective, but it doesn't mean they wouldn't be the best.
QUALITY and EFFECTIVENESS are TWO DIFFERENT FACTORS. You should learn that and remember that.

On some days, like in 2015 and against Psg, he is awesome.

Wrong example, although everyone thinks the same.
He was EFFECTIVE in that game, very determined but he had much much better games than that one.

On 80% of other matches, he is a player who costs 200+ Millions and a team plays equally as good or bad when he is on the pitch or when he is not playing.

During his worst games he has one or two moments that make the entire game worth to watch. That's why MILLIONS started watching PSG games worldwide after Neymar has left.
People who understand and are able to enjoy the game, love and appreciate those moments, even if they are not fans of neither of the clubs playing.
That is a connoisseur and not the one - like you - who enjoys mediocre players, mediocre managers, boringly defensive tactics, just because the result might be favorable.
Football in its nicest form is an ART and hence you should start learning how to separate the easily forgettable and grey workers from the true ARTISTS.

Barca won 2 La ligas in 4 years with Neymar.

And Barca won two Ligas after Neymar has left, just because the other competitive teams were even worse.
Even your beloved statistics will tell you the Barca-decline under Valverde. These two Liga wins were almost worthless because of the lack of competition.

Brasil has just won the first Copa America in Neymar's career... when he even wasn't in a team due to an injury.
For actual results, a guy is almost a non factor.

Brazil has won the worst Copa in its history, where football was almost unwatchable and anything but enjoyable.
It doesn't matter if Neymar was there or not.

If Neymar is "almost a non factor" for you - and you really believe what you are confidently saying - then I just have to repeat that you have no knowledge whatsoever about this game, regardless how many words you are able to type in a minute.
He is a factor, believe me, just as Dembele could have been, had the poor guy chosen a different club with an actually helpful and knowledgeable coach.
 
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Barcaman

Administrator
Staff member
Playing with Griez, Messi and Neymar

jRvwtV.gif


sex
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Potroh, no offense but I can't believe that a person who was supposedly a coach knows that little about IQ and body language.

You mentioned CR7.
From his body language, look in his eyes, celebrations, gestures to teammates, you can easily read his level of self confidence, motivation, determination, a desire to win, a likelihood of him SULKING in key moments.

Talent is another thing.
You should separately judge player's techical talent, tactical knowledge, physical skills and mental traits.

Majority of players who are world class are either good in all areas.
Or are at least average in majority of those.

Ronaldinho:
Talent: yes
Physique: yes
Tactics: ok
Iq, motivation, bravery: yes

Etoo:
Talent: very good
Physique: yes
Tactics: ok
Iq, bravery, motivation: yes

Ibra:
Talent: yes
Tactics: ok
Physique: yes
IQ, motivation, bravery: yes

Henry:
Talent: yes
Physique: yes
Tactics: yes
Iq, bravery, motivation: yes

Cr7:
Talent: yes
Physique: yes
Tactics: yes
Iq, bravery, motivation: yes

There are always some extreme rare examples of the opposite.
But ususlly, all top players are good in almost all key areas. Or at least average.

You are saying that I am repeating the same thing (Iq, motivation/lazyness, shy personality in this cases).
Yet you and others are doing the same.

Neglecting player's mental skills and traits is dumbing down the football to U13 level.

That is like saying: midfielder only needs to pass.
He doesn't need defending, shooting, physique and other skills.

You are doing the same with Iq and other mental/personality traits.

It can work in 2nd tier teams where talent alone is enough (Alexis and his talent and a lack of IQ are good enough for 2nd tier teams like Chilean NT where even a dumb and flawed Alexis is still the best player in a team.
So his technical talent trumps over IQ flaws in that case.
But in a 1st tier of teams, like Barca, Alexis is not good enough. Why? Because his pure talent without IQ is not good enough for our level because our other forwards usually have the whole package or at least the average package).

But anyway, I can't wait for new matches and for a new sample to analyze things.
June and July are really pointless to discuss.

You can't break through people's emotions and biases.

The only thing which can crush their illusions and dreams are actual matches.
So, let's wait for those.
 
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Alik

Moderator
It is up to you to conclude however you want to .. I do see him using facts and statistics to prove his points from time to time and I personally respect that. Regarding Rafinha, tbh if not for his injuries he wpuld have been a great useful addition to the team with a better contribution than the Dembele I see tody

If not for his injuries, Dembele would have had a better contribution than the Dembele you see today.
 

Potroh

New member
You mentioned CR7.
From his body language, look in his eyes, celebrations, gestures to teammates, you can easily read his level of self confidence, motivation, determination, a desire to win, a likelihood of him SULKING in key moments.

No. Wrong again.
CR7 is 34 yrs old now, still capable of doing nice things, but his "gestures" will not change. Self-confidence comes from his personality and pride, so when he will be getting weaker and weaker on the decline, his outwardly gestures will not be different.
We have seen quite comical elderly players like that over the decades, players who were well above 30 but felt to be 20 inside. It works like that with those ladies nearing 50-60 and they put on more and more make-up to disguise the wrinkles.

If you were a coach, you should know that over-confidence is a great danger on the pitch.
A coach should only care for one single factor in this regard: namely wether the player is capable of doing on the pitch what he actually knows and does in training.
A "shy" player is a good sign for actual performance, with one important exception: if a player is scared of being injured (like Neymar did it in Russia) because in that case he will not be able to take the NEEDED RISK factors.

The good example for that is my beloved Suarez, who started shouting and gesticulating more and more, proportional to his own decline.
That means he wants the crowd and fellow players to know that he is "not guilty", the problems are external to him.
An introvert, "shy" player - like Messi is - gesticulates and talks little to none, which is better from the coaches point of view, as well as from the team's.

When you have constantly been talking about "IQ", you mix up "PLAYING INTELLIGENCE" and situational awareness with actual human personality qualities and that is a huge problem.
Your other examples are irrelevant in this case.

A good coach knows if an individual player tends to be extroverted or introverted in private, but all he cares about if he is capable of performing ACCORDING to his OWN standards.

But in a 1st tier of teams, like Barca, Alexis is not good enough. Why? Because his pure talent without IQ is not good enough for our level because our other forwards usually have the whole package or at least the average package).

Barca is NOT a "miracle-team", where even the best look like mediocre, compared to the level of the entire team. It's a myth.
Some players are excellent in a given team, some are not. It's not a question of "IQ".

Talent + IQ does NOT exist as a working and general formula.
TALENT exists before all and there are 3640 other factors to contribute to that, not a single one - as you try to suggest.
 

Laplacian

Senior Member
When his dribbling works out he looks beautiful, in a sort of chaotic way. I would just like him to be more consistent and intelligent with his decision making and ball control. He is exciting to watch, showed up in an old video:

[youtube]BYNK8oDj_lc[/youtube]
 

CatalinR10

Senior Member
When his dribbling works out he looks beautiful, in a sort of chaotic way. I would just like him to be more consistent and intelligent with his decision making and ball control. He is exciting to watch, showed up in an old video:

[youtube]BYNK8oDj_lc[/youtube]


the fuck are you doing , you are supossed to shit on him on a daily basis.


source.gif
 

JohnN

Senior Member
I saw through his mediocrity right since day one.. I am glad more people see it now.

He hasn't evolved one bit. That much is obvious.
I believe his problems were visible to all, but we anticipated some sort of improvement, which is not so weird after all, even more if we consider his price.
I think the club should give him another chance, but if he gets injured again or shows the same type of decision making, for me he should be considered a failed transfer and be sold.
3 years should be enough for any player in his early 20's to showcase his abilities.. even under Valverde.
 

Maxim4

New member
I saw through his mediocrity right since day one.. I am glad more people see it now.

I do not agree with you.
For example, Coutinho, who was very good in Milan and Liverpool, became a winger at Barça and no work was done for his positioning, the attacking midfielder.
He has not progressed, he is in a complex situation within the club where no position is totally made for him, all because of Valverde who is never able to evolve the players, to work in different training systems that can bring different things. always because of his football design, veneration of absolute stability.
He refuses to dislodge Rakitic who is the real incarnation of Valverdism.
He is certainly an excellent player, but he only guarantees the stability and solidity of the Barcelona collective. In terms of creation, it is very often limited.
 
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