TacticsTim
Active member
I think dembeles mom found this website and created this birdie account. I can't explain someone wasting so much of their time saying stupid stuff defending a random player online.
Ousmane Dembélé
- Thread starter Devils
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Romano is really a tap in merchant. Same as Bouhafsi in France. That is why they are seen as highly reliable and latest windows show they are not flawless : Romano saying Done Deal for Wijnaldum when nothing is signed up yet or Di Marzio saying Neymar going back to Bar?a was done one year ago.
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Exactly what I said.
Used to wonder who lapped up the tweets from likes of Romano and think they are getting exclusives.
Today Birdy showed us who that audience is.
'Handing out Ls' on Romano exclusives..which were nothing of the sort and long being discussed.
His hero worship has been shattered.
Birdy
Senior Member
1) You are extrapolating from 1 game where he might not have been good, that he is not good in general.
Logical fallacy that is.
Apart from the fact that the stats are cherry-picked.
You have to specify much better what is it that he wan't good at, and then back it up with the relevant stat
2) You didn't get what I was trying to point out.
I agree that young Cristiano at UTD was a more complete winger.
I said that people here raise the bar of scoring/effectiveness in front of the goal so high in regards to Dembele that
IF HE WAS AS AN EFFICIENT SCORER AS THEY WANT HIM TO BE, he would be as good as young Cristiano was.
3) In general, Dembele haters here have to do a lot more to show that he is not good enough or that other alternatives are better.
A mere 'only 6 goals and 3 assists' is a poor argument.
4) The fact that you think Collado might be better at RW is telling.
Your judgments are very ideological and whatever deviates from the Masia-Barca DNA orthodoxy is not good enough.
I respect your view, but you have to consider that the last 10 years football has proved you wrong.
Even Pep himself has changed so much
iniestaGOAT
Senior Member
Romano is a fraud and rashad rahman is heading there
i_bleed_blaugrana
Senior Member
I used the Real match because it was very emblematic of how he performs against low block defenses aka buses. A case-study, if you will. If you want more games where he showed a similar lack of impact or invention against teams employing a low-block:
- Last Atleti match this season
- Alaves
- Bilbao
- PSG in the 2nd leg
He had a big moment against Sevilla but that is not why we signed him for all of that money. It was for nights like against Liverpool, Real, Atleti and PSG and just too many times in these games, he is not having an impact. Trying to dribble 2 v 1 and losing the ball, Square + X (x5) every time he gets the ball out wide, not positioning well in half-spaces to connect attacks or timing his runs well.
I did not just cherry pick stats, I just listed off the general stats from his game against Real, the same general stats that most people evaluate an attackers performance. I do not have an agenda here and I even left out facts like his shot percentage for the game (which was 0/2 btw) that even further proves my point. The mans end product is not good enough for the importance he is getting in the squad, the money we are paying him now and the money we paid to Dortmund.
Again, you stated that he is the only one who does anything against buses and influences our attack. For comparison:
- Pedri: 75 touches, possession lost 9 times, 2 key passes, 0 completed dribbles, 91% pass accuracy
- Greizmann: 24 touches, possession lost 8 times, 0 key passes, 0 completed dribbles, 77% pass accuracy after 45 mins
- Messi: 99 touches, possession lost 20 times, 2 key passes, 7 completed dribbles, 89% pass accuracy, 1 missed chanced and 1 off the woodwork and 2/7 for shots on target
Even though Messi lost the ball a couple times more, he had almost double the amount of touches, an insane amount of dribbles and got actual shots on target. While also being 2/5 for his crosses. Meanwhile, Dembele had half the amount of touches in the same time frame, only 17 completed passes at 81% and 2/3 for his dribbles completed.
His overall stats trend closer to Greizmann who played for 45 minutes than Messi. No agenda, no cherry-picking. A player who was clearly the best player on our squad against buses should have better numbers than this in the biggest game of our season. I am not going to spell this out like this for every other match I mentioned but look at the numbers and you will see a similar picture to the one against Real.
Lastly, its a pretty stale take at this point to equate rating a youth player with being barca-dna orthodoxy-whatever you called me and saying the usual it is not 2011 shit. That is extrapolating, just to be clear as you are taking one statement I made about a player and equating it to a general attitude that was not at all relevant to what I was saying, nor the context it was said in.
I maintain the stance that we need to evolve our ideas as the game changes but not move away from the core principles and Ajax showed everyone that well-executed possession football can win against these typically modern teams everyone raves about. There are many examples over the last 10 years of exactly what I am referring to with Pep, as you mentioned, a prime example of the sort of tweaks we have needed to make for a while. I have talked about learning from Lucho a lot recently in my posts as well.
My bottom line with why I rate Collado has nothing to do with being stuck in the past and everything to do with me actually getting a good look at the kid and seeing that a lot of the key deficiencies myself and others have pointed out in Dembele are strengths of Collado.
Nice try with the fallacy stuff by the way. You should maybe learn a bit about them first before trying to accuse others of committing them in a post where you then continue to commit several more
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Bobo32
Senior Member
No Dembele isn't about stats, he'll never impress there I dare say.
His vice is that he is so shit and so unaware of what is the best thing to do, that he mixes things up and sometimes can break a defence by just being unpredictable or forceful.
He isn't afraid to shoot or to try the silliest things, and he did score a couple of winning goals this season (I think he decided one cup game, probably saving Koemans job with that shot)
A team can have one or maybe two players like that and still dominate, Barcelona can benefit from someone like him in some games sometimes (Konrad could be told to play the same role and do it just as well probably)
I have argued that Dembele is of more use vs a low block than vs a high line despite his speed and I think this is true. His awful decision-making and lack of focus becomes more apparent and decisive with more space and less time.
His vice is that he is so shit and so unaware of what is the best thing to do, that he mixes things up and sometimes can break a defence by just being unpredictable or forceful.
He isn't afraid to shoot or to try the silliest things, and he did score a couple of winning goals this season (I think he decided one cup game, probably saving Koemans job with that shot)
A team can have one or maybe two players like that and still dominate, Barcelona can benefit from someone like him in some games sometimes (Konrad could be told to play the same role and do it just as well probably)
I have argued that Dembele is of more use vs a low block than vs a high line despite his speed and I think this is true. His awful decision-making and lack of focus becomes more apparent and decisive with more space and less time.
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Xaviniesta
Senior Member
would have loved to seen the barca scouting report for dembele
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
Yeah even the stats arent on his side. I would be less angry on him if he would have scored the 4-0 against liverpool.....
FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
Exactly. Sterling is his upside and I don't think he will ever get there with his touch/passing/dribbling. Just sell him.
He is basically dumber Sterling without good touch/fight/work ethic.
He will be another Semedo. We sell him and never hear about him again. (Other than one or two wonder goals he scores a season to keep you having hope!)
Birdy
Senior Member
"eye test" is an empty catch phrase.
What one person's eyes tell him is different from another.
You cannot build any substantive argument based on eye test
Let's start with the games you mention, as I see you have defined low-block incorrectly.
Only last Atleti game was vs a low block, (where team was unable to create any chance before Dembele came in as a sub in the 2nd half)
Bilbao and PSG games were not low blocks.
They were against sides who tried to pressure high and disrupt our buildup.
And that's why you can see vs which teams the 3-4-3/3-5-2 worked wonders this year.
Games vs low-blocks from the last part of the season to say the least were these:
Granada at home,
Celta home,
Getafe home,
Valladolid home,
Cadiz home for instance
In all those the 3-5-2/3-4-3 did not work well.
No, you cherrypicked.
There is no "general stats that most people evaluate". These are just generic tags that are used to hide the fact that there is no specific angle and argument in reading the stats.
You have to try again.
1) You have to identify first a quality, area which you want to target with your stats.
2) Then, you have to explain why the stats you cite (and not other stats) best capture the quality or area you are targeting
3) Finally you have to evaluate that quality/area based on the specific stats you cite
And here we see why your stats do not prove any point.
Why is 'touches' for example important? What is this supposed to tell me about the game?
Same for 'possession lost'. Why is this important?
How does any of the above stat relate to the quality of "breaking low blocks"?
Sort this out first and explain it clearly, and then we can evaluate the stats
It's a conclusion based on the totality of your posts here.
What one person's eyes tell him is different from another.
You cannot build any substantive argument based on eye test
Let's go again. There are several mistakes in your post
Let's start with the games you mention, as I see you have defined low-block incorrectly.
Only last Atleti game was vs a low block, (where team was unable to create any chance before Dembele came in as a sub in the 2nd half)
Bilbao and PSG games were not low blocks.
They were against sides who tried to pressure high and disrupt our buildup.
And that's why you can see vs which teams the 3-4-3/3-5-2 worked wonders this year.
Games vs low-blocks from the last part of the season to say the least were these:
Granada at home,
Celta home,
Getafe home,
Valladolid home,
Cadiz home for instance
In all those the 3-5-2/3-4-3 did not work well.
No, you cherrypicked.
There is no "general stats that most people evaluate". These are just generic tags that are used to hide the fact that there is no specific angle and argument in reading the stats.
You have to try again.
1) You have to identify first a quality, area which you want to target with your stats.
2) Then, you have to explain why the stats you cite (and not other stats) best capture the quality or area you are targeting
3) Finally you have to evaluate that quality/area based on the specific stats you cite
And here we see why your stats do not prove any point.
Why is 'touches' for example important? What is this supposed to tell me about the game?
Same for 'possession lost'. Why is this important?
How does any of the above stat relate to the quality of "breaking low blocks"?
Sort this out first and explain it clearly, and then we can evaluate the stats
I didn't come to this conclusion only because of you thinking Collado might be better than Dembele.
It's a conclusion based on the totality of your posts here.
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