Poor_Sunyol
In Lucho we trust!
Sam Allardyce is a better manager than Zidane.
Penal Madrid
- Thread starter PearLBLacK
- Start date
It is happening, can't argue with that, the signings show exactly what Madrid are trying to go to.
What he can't be doing is going with the flow as he did before. I know these guys are boring to mention, but compare him to Pep or Klopp, or even Lopetegui and look at how they work. They try to implement their personal touch and philosophy.
Zidane took over a team and played to their already existing strengths. This time around, the squad lacks any clear strengths and it's up to Zidane to build something.
And that's not my way of seeing 'generational change'. Binning 1 player in decline per season is closer to it rather than binning everyone like you're assuming.
It hasn't looked good at all in preseason, very few bright spots. And no I'm definitely not talking about goal difference because it doesn't show the truth. Could take last game as an example. Madrid got a 2-2 in a very Madrid type of way. I highly doubt they'll be getting points from these types of games like this.
I'm sure most Madrid supporters aren't very optimistic going by how it looked since Zidane took over. It sure could've looked more promising than it does.
Don't have time to answer the last part of your message, will get to it when I do.
Poor_Sunyol
In Lucho we trust!
If they don't find another left back it's going to be a long season...
El Gato
Villarato!
Arguably this time around squad lacks clear strengths because he can't replace everyone he needs to replace. ~8 players will be the same as in the squad 2-3 years ago. He can't make more than the 2-3 changes he's making and not lose even more quality. And there's the argument of expenditure and wage limits imposed by Liga, FFP etc that Perez talked about, so possibly we wouldn't actually be able to spend anyway if we had to invest more than 100 in each player.
Let's say he moved Modrić on, which I'm sure is his plan - who replaces him? When you consider we can't the player he wants (Pogba), he'd have to make Ceballos work or get an option B (VDB). It's been clear Ceballos isn't ready to be a starter yet, he could stay and be the Kovacić, but he doesn't want to. So what now? The only logical conclusion is that we wait longer and mediate with poorer solutions (Isco/James) at RCM/RCAM. This is what is happening.
Other changes that need being made?
- Carvajal has possibly peaked while Odriozola is too raw at the back. But can't be certain so both stay and maybe Hakimi proves to be better next summer and replaces the former who said before he wants to play in the EPL at some point.
- Marcelo is almost done, he's into the Dani Alves window where he could play forever just because of his GOAT touch, but will get rinsed twice as much off it. Hence Mendy. But he's still raw and Marcelo is captain. And both are attack-first...
- ...that dictates a need for defend-first, high-intensity pivots who do next to nothing on the ball but pass it close to a more capable distributor (Ramos, Marcelo, Kroos, Modrić) and maybe make an occasional run without getting dispossessed to shoot from distance (kind of a Mousa Dembele thing) - ideally somebody like Kante but that's obviously not an option, so Casemiro/Valverde because they're already here.
- Hazard on the left, either as LM or LW, along with Benzema generally being better as 'the wall' to bounce pass off on that side, means we have twice as little tracking-back movement, but twice as much ball on that side. Means we need to either make the formation asymmetric and put more players there, or we switch the formation - that's where 3-5-2 comes in. But more often than not we are better off simply keeping Kroos motivated and disciplined.
- If Kroos is there, we need danger on the opposite wing. Elsewise we're lopsided and precision distribution goes nowhere if wingers don't make good runs and have no complete striker to play off of. It's why Modrić never strays left and does a boatload of work to cover Carvajal darting up. But Modrić is old and can't do it for 60 games a season. Hence we need Pogba, who albeit really dislikes work and prefers to stray into the #10. That could actually work, but means we REALLY need Kante, or something close to it. Llorente wasn't that, because he's a distributor pivot, gets too bogged down directing the moves, which really isn't what the rest of the team need and his presence in the 11 practically makes Kroos useless, because we'd need to go back to 4-2-3-1, pure run-and-score wingers (Bale), a Khedira-style slaughterhouse player (current DMs fit OK). Hence we just need to settle for really trying to convince Isco to go back to his Seedorf role he played in 2014, despite him always wanting to just be the free-electron AM.
- Benzema is a waste of time. He's great at what he does, but he has outlived his purpose, has effort issues, is soft (ends up on his ass far too much when getting into 1-on-1s. But he has convinced the management his movement is something no other striker is capable of doing/learning and cemented his spot among his dressing room mates, which makes it difficult to give him serious competition. Jović is a very good alternative, but I hope his timid personality goes away quick, otherwise we're guaranteed to lose games where Benzema's finishing lets us down.
There's far too much to fix in one window. Can't just talk the same defenders performing shit into performing better. Conte would just come in and burn the formation to the ground, demand to spend 300M while alienating the other half of the team, so there's no reason to believe anybody would manage this better than the current Zidane strategy. We've made mistakes in not trusting several players a bit more, namely Morata and James, while giving the others contract extensions in autumn 2016 after very poor campaigns, namely Benzema and Bale.
It sure could, but it requires patience and a bit of trust in the case of most Madrid supporters. Zidane and the club let almost nothing out of the dressing room in the past 5 years. We have no idea who the favourites are, what the plans are and who is set to come or go. Not really. Marca and Twitter can go rampant, but nobody knows anything. When Perez gave that interview, he revealed far more than media have managed to sniff out i.e. Kroos contract extension in autumn 2018.
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Yup, I see your points and mostly agree. A whole lot of issues/problems exists in the current Madrid team that can't be solved overnight.
It's clear that Madrid long term thinking and trust in one single coach whom the club knows.
But is Zidane the ideal coach to lead the generational change? I mean he knows the club and the club knows him, so on a personal level he's perfect.
But what about his coaching skills? It's obviously still early and it could go either way, but he's inexperienced when it comes to what he has to do. It's not as simple as selecting a plug and play tactic/formation. You pointed out most issues that need to be solved.
This time around he's the one deciding who he wants to be bought. Pep made a lot of mistakes during his years at Barca when it came to transfers, but he's improved in that aspect.
Zidane hasn't had the time to make these kind of mistakes. It's risky business by the club, but of course, they need to take risks at this point.
But to summarize: I don't think Zidane is the right man to reach Madrid's goals, not short term nor long term.
El Gato
Villarato!
Again, I was surprised he returned. IMO the ideal madridista answer ought to be "I dont care if he is". Because he's the best available tool. Pochettino is not possible to do so and if you imagine we didn't have Zidane come back, we likely would have sent for Mourinho knowing he's not the right guy to do it either. Nor is any other high-profile manager available. Conte is already notoriously walking around Milan being Conte unceremoniously hanging people out to dry in the conferences.
Zidane is the best shot we have.
And I don't agree with your summary point. I think there's too little we know about Zidane as a coach & tactician, because he generally didn't need to be one. It is also clear he knows what is wrong and wanted to start fixing it last year, but it seems there are a variety of reasons why the board allow him only a certain amount of freedom on the market. The only time he did "coach" was his Castilla stint and youth setups are a whole different ball game. Yes, you could argue that good organisers excel at many levels like Pep or Sarri, but they also fail a lot of the time. It may very well be true that Zidane is the man-manager type who excels in ego-heavy teams where you have clear leaders of the pack - a Del Bosque. Hence many thought France NT is his next job. But too early to say I think.
I think he is on the right track when he wants us to play many formations. I think it's almost the best shot they have with this squad to do damage control. I always thought 3-5-2 is the natural way to progress with our team being heavily reliant on FBs and in desperate need of a new finisher. But again, several issues why we can't completely pull the trigger on it.
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BarcaOG
Banned
My god, Ancelotti is an infinitely better manager than Zidane. At this point in his career the Italian is somewhat past his best, given that football has changed a lot since he won the Champions League with Milan. But his record overall is very good--he has worked, and succeeded, with various groups of different players at different clubs.
Zidane was simply the right person, in the right place and in the right time while at Real. The departure of CR and the decline of Modric and Marcelo have really exposed his managerial credentials. To say nothing of his unprofessional handling of the squad. We used to say Zidane was a phenomenal man manager, having himself been an outstanding professional player. But the way he has approached the Bale/James situation is nothing short of a joke and an exemplary case in interpersonal ineptitude.
Mourinho is likely just smiling watching the fire spread, waiting for that sweet phone call from Uncle Flo.
El Gato
Villarato!
Other than the rest of your post which I can somewhat understand.
This is nonsense. He is handling it very well despite both being unfit for purpose and/or surplus to requirements on these positions.
This is nonsense. He is handling it very well despite both being unfit for purpose and/or surplus to requirements on these positions.
Leo_Messi
New member
While Zidane has never been a tactical mastermind (wrote that always) I would be cautious to underestimate him to the degree that he is being underestimated in this thread by some users. While I always considered it absurd to rate him as the best manager as the likes of Khaled believed on this thread, that does not mean that he is not an elite manager.
Zidane might not be a phenomenal tactician but he makes up for that in many other ways. Charisma, leadership, experience as an elite player and having been coached by some of the managerial GOAT's, winning mentality, pragmatism, having been exposed to many different football philosophies, his status and authority at RM and even learning from the likes of Pep etc. His status at RM alone makes his life much easier than your average RM manager in recent years. Much like it helped Pep greatly.
Granted he had immense luck in the CL and an absolutely stacked team in 2016-17 but almost every elite manager needed quality teams and some luck to make it big.
Let us see how he will do this season and the next if he stays for that long. That will probably answer a lot of questions about him getting exposed or not.
Anyway like Pep I expect him to take the easy way out (after leaving RM) and joining Juve. A similar move to Pep's move to Bayern. Pep's tenure at Man City has been much more impressive than his Bayern time despite performing much worser in the CL.
Zidane might not be a phenomenal tactician but he makes up for that in many other ways. Charisma, leadership, experience as an elite player and having been coached by some of the managerial GOAT's, winning mentality, pragmatism, having been exposed to many different football philosophies, his status and authority at RM and even learning from the likes of Pep etc. His status at RM alone makes his life much easier than your average RM manager in recent years. Much like it helped Pep greatly.
Granted he had immense luck in the CL and an absolutely stacked team in 2016-17 but almost every elite manager needed quality teams and some luck to make it big.
Let us see how he will do this season and the next if he stays for that long. That will probably answer a lot of questions about him getting exposed or not.
Anyway like Pep I expect him to take the easy way out (after leaving RM) and joining Juve. A similar move to Pep's move to Bayern. Pep's tenure at Man City has been much more impressive than his Bayern time despite performing much worser in the CL.
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Poor_Sunyol
In Lucho we trust!
Zidane wants to send Jovic on loan now.
According to?
Mariano is already on his way to Monaco. Why would they let Jovic go?
Edit: Just noticed Monaco bought Ben Yedder. Still highly doubt Jovic would leave.
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