Penal Madrid

[El Gato]

What you’ve just said is completely anecdotal though. Every team has these problems. You surely can’t deny that based on those results you have a problem getting a win when conceding first this season?

Define 'the problem'. For sure we have a problem of attacking quality, never said otherwise. There is an obvious caveat of Hazard being new, fat and absent for 90% of the games this year. But we don't lose points for the lack of trying and/or confidence, which is enough considering we had huge issues with it in the two previous seasons. Quite the opposite actually.

Put it this way, if we faced Liverpool at Anfield after being 3-0 up, I'm a bit more confident in us being able to do better than Barcelona

 

[Vilarrubi]

Define 'the problem'. For sure we have a problem of attacking quality, never said otherwise. There is an obvious caveat of Hazard being new, fat and absent for 90% of the games this year. But we don't lose points for the lack of trying, which is enough considering we had huge issues with it in the two previous seasons. Quite the opposite actually.

If you don’t think only winning 2 out of 11 games when conceding first is a problem then fair enough. As long as they’re looking like they could win ey?

 

[El Gato]

If you don’t think only winning 2 out of 11 games when conceding first is a problem then fair enough. As long as they’re looking like they could win ey?

You're dismissing the nature of the problem. Which is my point.

 

[Vilarrubi]

You're dismissing the nature of the problem. Which is my point.

Okay so “not having a great finisher”.... that’s just fact, I really don’t get your point with that one. It is what it is and you will drop points because of it.

 

[JamDav1982]

What you?ve just said is anecdotal though. Every team has these problems. You surely can?t deny that based on those results you have a problem getting a win when conceding first this season?

Real have had some poor performances no doubt. Away to Betis were poor, away to PSG, home to Sociedad in cup etc.

The Valencia game was different. Can argue about what if either way but for me based on the pattern of that game and how Real/Valencia played they were most likely to win it.

There could be games they go ahead in and stats point them winning when ahead but if they are playing poorly it in that game it is almost irrelevant what happened in past to that single game.

Particularly if go behind after 13 minutes. It is not panic stations and leaves them a lot of time to come back.

Hazard and Benzema were as good as been this season v Valencia who couldnt cope and in general pattern of game I think that remains even if Real go behind early doors.

 

[Vilarrubi]

Real have had some poor performances no doubt. Away to Betis were poor, away to PSG, home to Sociedad in cup etc.

The Valencia game was different. Can argue about what if either way but for me based on the pattern of that game and how Real/Valencia played they were most likely to win it.

There could be games they go ahead in and stats point them winning when ahead but if they are playing poorly it in that game it is almost irrelevant what happened in past to that single game.

Particularly if go behind after 13 minutes. It is not panic stations and leaves them a lot of time to come back.

Hazard and Benzema were as good as been this season v Valencia who couldnt cope and in general pattern of game I think that remains even if Real go behind early doors.

Fair enough if you think that. I think the opposite, don’t think Valencia would have necessarily won, maybe a draw. But game wouldn’t have gone the same way with Real dominating and scoring 3.

If that first chance goes in at 13 mins that could be more of a reason to lose or draw, especially if opposition park the bus. No way of knowing. Mallorca scored against them in 7th min and held them out to a 1-0 win.

 

[JamDav1982]

Fair enough if you think that. I think the opposite, don’t think Valencia would have necessarily won, maybe a draw. But game wouldn’t have gone the same way with Real dominating and scoring 3.

If that first chance goes in at 13 mins that could be more of a reason to lose or draw, especially if opposition park the bus. No way of knowing. Mallorca scored against them in 7th min and held them out to a 1-0 win.

The game could have gone Real winning and that is more likely than draw or defeat based on what evidence there was in game to go on.

Also the Hazard chance was before Moreno and not after it.

Valencia parked the bus the whole second half and Real scored three goals so we can see how game went in that scenario without being able to say it goes exactly the same if 0-1 but its a fair indicator.

Mallorca away Real did not play as well.

It is far better to look at games individually than try to base on past scenarios vs different teams where Real struggled.

You should start betting based on previous games rather than game watching and see how far it gets you.

 

[El Gato]

Okay so “not having a great finisher”.... that’s just fact, I really don’t get your point with that one. It is what it is and you will drop points because of it.

Obviously. I've been writing it from the moment Cristiano left, although back then there was at least some hope Asensio would develop and pick up at least 10-15 goals. He didn't, maybe we needed Zidane to see that through, who knows... And having Benzema as 'the best attacker we have' (as per serghei ) dictates our squad shape and makes us a limpdick offense prone to streakyness, because Zidane doesn't coach out the weaknesses, especially in older players. Nor does he play many of the younger ones, even if he likes several new guys (Fede, Vini, Rodrygo).

But again, this was not something that could be fixed this season. Only hope was a) Asensio or Bale provide numbers from the RW and b) Hazard/Vini provide the other batch.

Which partly happened. But more importantly, we respond (after 0-3 in Paris we go to Pizjuan to win 1-0) and we compete with top teams, even if we aren't the masters of our fate many times.

 

[Vilarrubi]

The game could have gone Real winning and that is more likely than draw or win based on what evidence there was in game to go on.

Also the Hazard chance was before Moreno and not after it.

Valencia parked the bus the whole second half and Real scored three goals so we can see how game went in that scenario without being able to say it goes exactly the same if 0-1 but its a fair indicator.

Mallorca away Real did not play as well.

It is far better to look at games individually than try to base on past scenarios vs different teams where Real struggled.

Not necessarily. Don’t you think Valencia hitting the post and getting the goal which most people thought would be given disallowed had a negative effect on them? Of course it did. If they score either of those can change the whole mentality of a team.

I meant first chance for Valencia, not first chance of the game. But we’re talking hypothetically here again.

 

[Vilarrubi]

Obviously. I've been writing it from the moment Cristiano left, although back then there was at least some hope Asensio would develop and pick up at least 10-15 goals. He didn't, maybe we needed Zidane to see that through, who knows... And having Benzema as 'the best attacker we have' (as per serghei ) dictates our squad shape and makes us a limpdick offense prone to streakyness, because Zidane doesn't coach out the weaknesses, especially in older players. Nor does he play many of the younger ones, even if he likes several new guys (Fede, Vini, Rodrygo).

But again, this was not something that could be fixed this season. Only hope was a) Asensio or Bale provide numbers from the RW and b) Hazard/Vini provide the other batch.

Which partly happened. But more importantly, we respond (after 0-3 in Paris we go to Pizjuan to win 1-0) and we compete with top teams, even if we aren't the masters of our fate many times.

Yeah so the lack of great finisher (Ronaldo) means games in which you?d usually comeback and look like you will comeback in, you?re not because of no finisher. I get that, but that means you will and have been struggling to win games after conceding. I?m not denying the nature or problem of it, just stating the fact.

 

[JamDav1982]

Not necessarily. Don’t you think Valencia hitting the post and getting the goal which most people thought would be given disallowed had a negative effect on them? Of course it did. If they score either of those can change the whole mentality of a team.

I meant first chance for Valencia, not first chance of the game. But we’re talking hypothetically here again.

No I dont think it would have had a negative effect nor would Real have panicked when so clearly the better side and would have won without all that much fuss in my opinion.

They were just playing at a far higher tempo and looking too dangerous for Valencia and dont think either team does much differently.

You keep referring to the VAR goal. It was correctly ruled offside.

 

[Vilarrubi]

No I dont think it would have had a negative effect nor would Real have panicked when so clearly the better side and would have won without all that much fuss in my opinion.

They were just playing at a far higher tempo and looking too dangerous for Valencia and dont think either team does much differently.

You keep referring to the VAR goal. It was correctly ruled offside.

Yep. In your opinion.

Not saying it wasn’t offside. If the same happened to Barca I’d think shit that was close, any other day that could have easily been onside given how close it was. Same applies for Madrid.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yep. In your opinion.

Not saying it wasn’t offside. If the same happened to Barca I’d think shit that was close, any other day that could have easily been onside given how close it was. Same applies for Madrid.

Of course in my opinion. You dont have to keep repeating that line as if some great point when clearly stated as my opinion and not fact.

You didnt offside goal was just 'close' you said 'most people thought would be given' when that is nonsense. Only folk who dont understand rules think tha or making some claim before replay was shown to clearly be offside. Look back at thread on here were most realised it was offside.

 

[El Gato]

Yeah so the lack of great finisher (Ronaldo) means games in which you?d usually comeback and look like you will comeback in, you?re not because of no finisher. I get that, but that means you will and have been struggling to win games after conceding. I?m not denying the nature or problem of it, just stating the fact.

Sure. Maybe. I think it's too early to say because this is the first season under Zidane without Ronaldo and by happenstance, without Hazard and Asensio - our two overall best and most consistent when fit wingers. The Valencia game was the continuation of November period when Hazard was getting into form and we played arguably our best version 4-3-3 this season. Except Asensio played as well. No way of telling how that'd look if given an entire year without much disruption. It may be that all goals do spread out as planned.

 

[Vilarrubi]

Of course in my opinion. You dont have to keep repeating that line as if some great point when clearly stated as my opinion and not fact.

You didnt offside goal was just 'close' you said 'most people thought would be given' when that is nonsense. Only folk who dont understand rules think tha or making some claim before replay was shown to clearly be offside. Look back at thread on here were most realised it was offside.

Most as in, all the players walked back to the centre circle. VAR room couldn’t decide, had to get ref to look at it. So yeah it wasn’t obvious offside at all. If it was clearly offside play would have resumed straight away and none of those checks would have happened.