Penal Madrid

[DonAK]

Pochettino might be more Van Gaal than anyone else. There to set a foundation which another manager improve and take advantage of.

 

[JamDav1982]

He beat Real during a stint of complete shithousery. That Spurs team should have battered RM, but had no stones to take more risk with a team who would barely get a shot on target and, even if they did, their keeper would take care of the problem. 4 years in a team aspiring to improve and they are still at the stage of "we're a young team, we have to remain humble". That instills no confidence in the long-term at all and hence why they are where they are.

He may be at a big club i.e. Bayern, anywhere in Italy. But he is not that guy who is brought in to get a top team to European domination. Which is what Real is and will remain.

They beat RM and Poch has also in past season and half beaten sides led by Pep, Mourinho, Klopp and Conte. Also beat Pep in La Liga.

Would be best choice for Real. Hope they think like you.

 

[El Gato]

Pochettino might be more Van Gaal than anyone else. There to set a foundation which another manager improve and take advantage of.

+1
[MENTION=6099]JamDav1982[/MENTION]
You Cules like dissecting things, right? How was his result vs Klopp last year when he arguably beat Pep? How was it this year, upside down much? How was his result vs Conte? Or even Wenger? Consistent, young, aspiring manager

The only manager out of that league good enough and on RM's level who would be open to the job is Conte, but isn't the long-term answer. Which is why Perez is likely to wait and take the heat.

 

[JamDav1982]

+1
[MENTION=6099]JamDav1982[/MENTION]
You Cules like dissecting things, right? How was his result vs Klopp last year when he arguably beat Pep? How was it this year, upside down much? How was his result vs Conte? Or even Wenger? Consistent, young, aspiring manager

The only manager out of that league good enough and on RM's level who would be open to the job is Conte, but isn't the long-term answer. Which is why Perez is likely to wait and take the heat.

He has beaten all of those managers across the past season and a half. Cant really make out point you are trying to make.

Nope dont agree on Conte. Can see how it pans out.

 

[El Gato]

He has beaten all of those managers across the past season and a half. Cant really make out point you are trying to make.

What does that prove? That he's better in a given game? He still can't make it count when he has to nor can he maintain regularity. And when he does he fails at the first point. Doesn't fulfil either of the two requirements RM would start the job interview with.

Beat Klopp once in 1.5 season, 2 draws, 2 losses.
Beat Conte once, 2 draws, 3 losses. Includes FA Cup semi loss.
Beat Mou twice, lost twice.
Beat Pep twice, 1 draw, 1 loss.

50% wins against Mou & Pep. Both are doing better than him at the moment.

Dude is young. So what, so is Nagelsmann. He's done the work of not letting the club sink after their biggest sale in history. He's about to lead to another one if he doesn't take that next step. And it's not looking likely in the slightest.

 

[JamDav1982]

What does that prove? That he's better in a given game? He still can't make it count when he has to nor can he maintain regularity. Doesn't fulfil either of the two requirements RM would start the job interview with.

Beat Klopp once in 1.5 season, 2 draws, 2 losses.
Beat Conte once, 2 draws, 3 losses. Includes FA Cup semi loss.
Beat Mou twice, lost twice.
Beat Pep twice, 1 draw, 1 loss.

50% wins against Mou & Pep. Both are doing better than him at the moment.

Dude is young. So what, so is Nagelsmann. He's done the work of not letting the club sink after their biggest sale in history. He's about to lead to another one if he doesn't take that next step. And it's not looking likely in the slightest.

It proves he can beat them when you said he cant. Thats all.

Yip so he has a decent record against those managers and can beat them and with a team with smaller budget he has had to build as well.

Great manager.

 

[Joan]

One one of the favorites to coach Real after Zidane is Low. What do you think about him?

 

[Barcaman]

My opinion of him is low. Picture of him eating boogers still haunts me.

 

[Trickykid]

Which is dumbed down and oversimplified =]

1) Isco thrives with the ball at his feet and scoring from his passes relies on strikers making good runs. Ronaldo and Benzema don't make them. The only one that does consistently this year is Bale.
2) Ronaldo always wants to have a go no matter how good he is positioned for it (4 goals from 94 attempts this season).
3) Marcelo has become lazy, was always prone to that, but ever since he doesn't even care about Theo being his sub, he has no threat and doesn't feel the consequence of mistakes
4) Carvajal has never been the sharpest of crossers, but his dedication will never go unacknowledged. Similarly suffers from lack of threat, but is still better. Sadly he was never coached out of the bad habits i.e. gets rinsed by better dribblers instead of using positioning to block them with teammate support.
5) Kroos has never had the habit of tracking back and is usually played for his sharp passing. His accuracy is what is important to distribute the ball across flanks. Occasionally he provides a good flat shot from a rebound, or a late run. He's the best at what he does and again, does not feel threatened by Kova. Mateo likes to run forward which is superb, but there is no visible benefit from his offensive game, because strikers aren't good enough in the way Sheva or Inzaghi were for Kaka.
6) Modrić is getting old. Can only play good 60 minutes every 2 or 3 games.

Basically a multitude of problems in a tactic that would otherwise work and all stem from one thing - lack of consequence and too much faith in a team getting increasingly washed up.

What would you do if you were Uncle Flo? Sack ZZ and/or replace the current duds in the squad?
By now I think it's safe to say that this isn't just a prolonged bad run, but I wouldn't be surprised if you guys somehow manage to dig deep and make a serious run for the third consecutive ChL.

 

[El Gato]

What would you do if you were Uncle Flo? Sack ZZ and/or replace the current duds in the squad?
By now I think it's safe to say that this isn't just a prolonged bad run, but I wouldn't be surprised if you guys somehow manage to dig deep and make a serious run for the third consecutive ChL.

I hate the traditionalist approach by now and since ZZ was in the club I was hoping for a more meaningful change to club policy. He gained stature by bringing trophies immediately and I wish that gave him carte blanche for development for years to come. Problem is I don't think Flo changed that much despite ZZ being his pet project. He is still governed by the board decisions who see the waning popularity.

I personally would keep Zidane and replace 3/4 of the team, hope Zidane doesn't mind it and treats it as a new challenge. At least it provides philosophical continuity for the club and stops the tradition of 2-3 year managerial periods. Ferguson was there for so long because he recognised the flaws of becoming too close with the players. He recognised he is a manager, but not a friend. Zidane hasn't yet learned this and he still sort of thinks like a footballer. Sacking will give him the impulse to recognise it. That or a complete board-enforced overhaul, but this would degrade the trust between him & Perez.

So basically it's always been down to ZZ's ego - earlier he recognised the value of Casemiro and Isco. He needs to do the same here and take out the flops who are underperforming, and stop saying everything is fine when clearly it gets no reaction from the team, and there is nobody to provide the spark of difference.

If I was Flo I'd do the following:
Let Zidane crash and burn through the season, even if it means not being in the CL next year. It would gain huge heat from the board and would be downright unacceptable, but it's a necessary lesson if both Flo and ZZ want the project to go on. Then sit down with ZZ at the end of season and say "we're selling so and so, we're buying so and so - do you agree we need to do this?". If ZZ OK's it, he carries on. If not, he walks. Heads will roll no matter what. I just kind of hope ZZ redeems himself, because he's the closest we had to a club dynasty kickstarter. Not being in the CL is the dealbreaker here and ZZ should recognise that it's far more important than loyalty to the group.

 

[Aryagorn]

My opinion of him is low. Picture of him eating boogers still haunts me.

I see what you did there

 

[DonAK]

Is Zidane ready to build a team though? He need to have a plan, vision for how the team will play and should be set up, with players signed accordingly. He woke up the fire in the Real Madrid players, but the younger players like Carvajal and Isco still have flaws that need to be addressed, that's where a coach comes in handy.

A rebuild from the bottom up is going to take some time.

 

[Vialli_92]

Is Zidane ready to build a team though? He need to have a plan, vision for how the team will play and should be set up, with players signed accordingly. He woke up the fire in the Real Madrid players, but the younger players like Carvajal and Isco still have flaws that need to be addressed, that's where a coach comes in handy.

A rebuild from the bottom up is going to take some time.

That's the challenge, he went in and fluked a CL in 2016 and kept the momentum going in 2017 and had RM playing some very good football and deservedly won the double

Most of their team and core players are all 30+ and have won everything there is to win multiple times at club level

The hunger and desire doesn't seem to be there with the ageing squad

I don't think Zidane is the right person to lead them into that transition but it wouldn't be fair to say he doesn't deserve a chance to do it after what he achieved there

 

[Trickykid]

I hate the traditionalist approach by now and since ZZ was in the club I was hoping for a more meaningful change to club policy. He gained stature by bringing trophies immediately and I wish that gave him carte blanche for development for years to come. Problem is I don't think Flo changed that much despite ZZ being his pet project. He is still governed by the board decisions who see the waning popularity.

I personally would keep Zidane and replace 3/4 of the team, hope Zidane doesn't mind it and treats it as a new challenge. At least it provides philosophical continuity for the club and stops the tradition of 2-3 year managerial periods. Ferguson was there for so long because he recognised the flaws of becoming too close with the players. He recognised he is a manager, but not a friend. Zidane hasn't yet learned this and he still sort of thinks like a footballer. Sacking will give him the impulse to recognise it. That or a complete board-enforced overhaul, but this would degrade the trust between him & Perez.

So basically it's always been down to ZZ's ego - earlier he recognised the value of Casemiro and Isco. He needs to do the same here and take out the flops who are underperforming, and stop saying everything is fine when clearly it gets no reaction from the team, and there is nobody to provide the spark of difference.

If I was Flo I'd do the following:
Let Zidane crash and burn through the season, even if it means not being in the CL next year. It would gain huge heat from the board and would be downright unacceptable, but it's a necessary lesson if both Flo and ZZ want the project to go on. Then sit down with ZZ at the end of season and say "we're selling so and so, we're buying so and so - do you agree we need to do this?". If ZZ OK's it, he carries on. If not, he walks. Heads will roll no matter what. I just kind of hope ZZ redeems himself, because he's the closest we had to a club dynasty kickstarter. Not being in the CL is the dealbreaker here and ZZ should recognise that it's far more important than loyalty to the group.

Do you think that's the general consensus amongst madridistas? I honestly thought you'd have given up on ZZ by now due to his inability to change his tactical setup and the fact that it very much looks like he's lost the dressing room.

Could you specify which players from the starting XI you'd let go and who you would replace them with? Considering how fairly few euros you've spent the last couple of seasons, you should have a fat ol' transfer kitty this summer.

 

[El Gato]

Is Zidane ready to build a team though? He need to have a plan, vision for how the team will play and should be set up, with players signed accordingly. He woke up the fire in the Real Madrid players, but the younger players like Carvajal and Isco still have flaws that need to be addressed, that's where a coach comes in handy.

A rebuild from the bottom up is going to take some time.

True. But for many guys, especially young Spaniards, their game suffers only when they need to blend into the current setup. Notice the difference when Isco-Morata-Asensio-Vazquez played together. You could even throw Ceballos into the mix. It worked more often than not. ZZ managed egos well and he inspires confidence in players of the right level of ability. If he had Icardi, Neymar or even Kane at his disposal, if full backs were good enough to push each other and be rivals, it would work, because that's when the coach comes in to make them all feel important.
Casemiro has improved and the only visible flaw that remains is clumsiness, but for some that can't be coached out (Ramos), he seems to be in that mould.

I don't think he can't coach. He didn't really have to yet, only minor adjustments were needed. But if he's told to tinker, he can tinker (Kovacić marking, Asensio free-roam when on form, he even tried Marcelo in midfield to make room for Theo but as soon as results started to fail that was put on the backburner). Just not with the existing squad, which is fairly rigid and numerous players are too used to their roles.