Pep Guardiola

[Leo_Messi]

Pep worshipers making up buzzwords again.

If respecting and being fond of one of the biggest Barça legends in history in Pep who literally contributed to the success of the club on every level (from ball boy to our most successful manager in history so far) is equal to being a "Pep worshipper" you need to visit a doctor as soon as possible. What is more unbelievable is that certain Barça "fans" seemingly have anti-Pep sentiments. Do you care to enlighten us how you came up with this messed up idea in the first place? What is the idea behind constantly trying to put Pep down while at the same time praising the likes of Valverde who are nobodies in comparison with all due respect to Ernesto? It's a bit like disliking Messi, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta etc. and claiming to be a fan. There is no logic behind it. How can you dislike people who helped the club enjoy an immense degree of success and who supposedly (as a fan) enriched your life and gave you much happiness? Baffles my mind really.

 

[Vilarrubi]

If respecting and being fond of one of the biggest Barça legends in history in Pep who literally contributed to the success of the club on every level (from ball boy to our most successful manager in history so far) is equal to being a "Pep worshipper" you need to visit a doctor as soon as possible. What is more unbelievable is that certain Barça "fans" seemingly have anti-Pep sentiments. Do you care to enlighten us how you came up with this messed up idea in the first place? What is the idea behind constantly trying to put Pep down while at the same time praising the likes of Valverde who are nobodies in comparison with all due respect to Ernesto? It's a bit like disliking Messi, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta etc. There is no logic behind it.

Barca fans who are Pep haters usually support an English club other than Man City. Then again supporting top teams from random countries for the sake of it isn’t my thing.

 

[Joan]

There is nothing wrong with not being particularly fond of Pep. Especially since he left the club. I'd never support City just for the sake of it. Not that I mind others doing so.

 

[Leo_Messi]

There is nothing wrong with not being particularly fond of Pep. Especially since he left the club. I'd never support City just for the sake of it. Not that I mind others doing so.

Pep leaving the club should have no bearing on him being one of the biggest Barça legends of all-time. Anyone who knows Pep and the club knows that Barça (nor RM for that matter) cannot have a Ferguson type of coach. Not in a club with elections every 6 years (before it was 4 years), no tradition of having long-term managers and football having changed tremendously. Not to mention that being a manger in Spain is historically and to this day different than being a manager in England although that is changing. Pep never promised to become the new Alex Ferguson and we all know that the current useless board did not do enough to make him stay not to mention that they undermined him. No such thing at Man City.

To me it is utterly insane that there are actual Barça fans out there who dislike him. As I said it is like disliking Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol.

BTW I could not care less about Man City. I don't support a team in England at all. I watch City occasionally because they play great football and I like football in particular entertaining offensive football. I don't usually sit down and decide to watch Allegri's Juve for instance if there are alternatives.

I am a Barça supporter first and foremost. I could never in my wildest dreams take the side of even our greatest club legend of all-time (Messi) over that of the club. So i am not worshipping Pep or a fan of player x or y as many football fans are nowadays. I am a culé. Practically born as one. Will die as one too. However I will always have the utmost respect for club legends (Pep is without a doubt one and one of the very biggest) so that is why I have a hard time seeing supposed fans display anti-Pep sentiments.

BTW, I don't care if Pep wins titles with City or not but obviously I prefer him doing well over the likes of Mourinho (when he still worked in England) and Man Utd. Not to say that I prefer small clubs like Man City to win trophies as they have won much less than European rivals like Liverpool and Man Utd. You can respect Pep a lot and wish him all the best (when not playing against Barça that is) without suddenly turning into a fan of the club that he is now coaching. That should be evident for every sane person. Lastly I am not one of those deluded people who consider Pep faultless and who cannot see any faults in him. Not the case either. As I wrote, I am not a fanboy. Not even of Messi, despite my username. Never understood the fanboy mentality to begin with.

 

[Vilarrubi]

There is nothing wrong with not being particularly fond of Pep. Especially since he left the club. I'd never support City just for the sake of it. Not that I mind others doing so.

There isn’t, people are free to like and dislike who they want, but what Pep means to the club and what he represents (Catalan, Cruyff etc) resonates with some fans. I wasn’t suggesting people should support City because Peps there, I meant typically Barca fans who also like United dislike Pep. I’m a neutral in the Premier League so seeing City and Liverpool battle it out is exciting and I don’t mind who wins.

 

[Leo_Messi]

There isn’t people are free to like and dislike who they want, but what Pep means to the club and what he represents (Catalan etc) resonates with some fans. I wasn’t suggesting people should support City because Peps there, I meant typically Barca fans who also like United dislike Pep. I’m a neutral in the Premier League so seeing City and Liverpool battle it out is exciting and I don’t mind who wins.

Yes, let us not even talk about the political aspect although I disagree with Pep here personally as I am not in favor of the disintegration of Spain (or any other European heavyweight for that matter) and I fell no need to discuss this issue in detail on an online football forum where there are hardly any Spaniards. The few locals who dislike him often cannot look past his political views, I fell. Even the average RM fan will tell you that they admire his football style and his accomplishment as a footballer and manger but obviously they will not like him for what he did for Barça.

To me disliking Pep is like disliking Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol and other club legends. I fail to understand such logic. I really do. I might be in the wrong but that is how I feel and if I should make a guess at least 90% of all genuine fans (no trying to start a dick measurement competition here but people should get the point here when reading my previous post) feel the same way.

I have always been saying this but if Pep was a madridista and had a similar playing and managerial career at RM, at least 10 statues of him would have been built around the Santiago Bernabéu and there would hardly be any anti-Pep brigade out there. Marca and AS would be singing praises of him 24/7 as well. The national team's achievements in 2010 and 2012 would have been linked even closer to Pep and that era's Barça team.

Anyway those are off-topic posts. They should be moved to the Pep thread as they have little to do with the PL.

 

[BBZ8800]

If respecting and being fond of one of the biggest Barça legends in history in Pep who literally contributed to the success of the club on every level (from ball boy to our most successful manager in history so far) is equal to being a "Pep worshipper" you need to visit a doctor as soon as possible. What is more unbelievable is that certain Barça "fans" seemingly have anti-Pep sentiments. Do you care to enlighten us how you came up with this messed up idea in the first place? What is the idea behind constantly trying to put Pep down while at the same time praising the likes of Valverde who are nobodies in comparison with all due respect to Ernesto? It's a bit like disliking Messi, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta etc. and claiming to be a fan. There is no logic behind it. How can you dislike people who helped the club enjoy an immense degree of success and who supposedly (as a fan) enriched your life and gave you much happiness? Baffles my mind really.

I dislike Pep today, so I will explain why, since you asked the question.

I dislike Pep mostly because of what our fans have "made" out of him in a post-Pep era.
He is the best manager who has ever coached our club, but I am personally pissed of things like:
1. we should try to play exactly (or the closest as possible as Pep did)
If I ask: why?
Reply is: well, it was the most successful era of our club, why shouldn't we try to replicate it?
Me: because it stopped working even for Pep here, and 10 years have passed, football evolved, opponents evolved, and people with those ideas are stuck in time.

To me, saying things like: we should try to play in 2019 as close as possible to how Pep played in 2008-2011 is similar to:
Roma should try to play the same formation, system, type of players as in 2001.
Since, you know, 2001 is the last time when they won Seria A.
Do you think that their magical formula from 2001 would work in 2019?
I don't think so.

Or: Liverpool should try to copy their style, formation, type of players from late 80s.
Since this is when they won last titles.
I mean, if it worked like a charm in 80s, the same thing should work in 2018, right?
Well, that system won't work.

I know, we'll now read more hyperbole answers like: Roma's team from 2001 was just a regular team, and Pep's team from 2008-2011 was one of the best teams ever so it "is worth" to copy it, compared to Roma's or Liverpool's case.
Well, I don't think so.
Imo, both teams and tactics are a part of a past.
And it is ok to play somewhat close to it, but being obssessed with it is what is pissing me off.

Also, I am pissed how a lot of fans (I guess 15-25 years old guys), are those extreme Pepistas.
Imo, that is probably because in their "formative footballing years", in teen years, Barca and Pep were dominating the world and in their young brain (in that time), Pep and his football became an image of perfection and he was put on a pedestal and everything ever will be compared to him.
For example, in my "formative footballing years", when I was a teen, in 90s, Milan and Juventus were the best teams in the world.
And their football was less beautiful, more physical, tactical and efficient.
Barca played the most beautiful even then, but more logical-Italians were always winning CL titles.
And since I am personally more biased towards titles than to beautiful play (it doesn't mean that I don't like a beautiful play), my brain is wired in a different way than in 20-25 years old guys from this forum.
My brain and footballing views are wired in a way: Barca's eye-pleasing style is usually not good enough. We usually always (before Messi) lacked some tactical points and some physique to win on a highest level.

Also, I hate those "this is Barca's style" dumb posts.
As if: Pep's style equals Barca.
NO.
Pep's style equals=Pep's Barca.
Barca's style was always attacking, possession based and beautiful.
Pep's style is only one of Barca's versions.
Even though, it was the best version.
But I am extremely pissed with posts: THAT is Barca's way, when people are wanting to say: Pep's style is Barca!
They probably haven't watched Cruijff, Van Gaal, Rijkaard, who's Barcas played quite close to Pep's Barcas, even though less successfull (but again, they didn't have Messi and we can write 20 000 pages about that and we wouldn't agree).

In short, I don't dislike Pep and Pep's Barca.
I was happy back then and enjoyed trophies and our style, like everyone else.
I do HATE what people (especially younger guys, imo) have made out of Pep in the last 10 years.

2. regarding Pep as a person, he is quite a stubborn guy. And quite an asshole in a lot of cases.
Way less likeable for me than Rijkaard, Lucho, Tito from our last coaches.
I would personally rather take a drink with Rijkaard or Lucho.
Pep looks kind of an asshole who will stab you in a back sooner or later.
That's just my opinion about him.

Between these two points, my personal dislike for Pep is around:
80:20 or 70:30=Barca's fan obssession and hyperbole about Pep, and a smaller part because of Pep's dickish personality.

Also, I am fan of Barca, but I am not at all a fan of City.
I want to move away from Pep's style and so, I would rather see him lose so that both Pep and our fans can close that chapter and move to something different/evolved.

That said, I still think that Pep is the greatest coach whom we eve had.
And thanks for that, Pep.

But again, that was 10 years ago.
Do I want to replicate Pep's style? F*** no.
But also, I don't want to replicate even Van Gaal's or Rijkaard's styles from the same reason=they are a part of a past.
I would, though, take the best parts and basics out of all eras and add some new things, needed for 2019 (for example, how I see it: Pep's football with a more physique, or with a taller striker so that we could score both in Pep's style and through crosses in RM's CR7's style).

Maybe now some people will have a better insight why some Barca's fans are against Pep and against his cult-level of obssession, to some extent.

I am not disliking Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Ronnie and similar, for example.

 

[Joan]

To me disliking Pep is like disliking Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol and other club legends. I fail to understand such logic. I really do.

What does it have to do with liking/disliking certain player? Why would Barca fans (genuine or not, regardless of your standards) need to like any of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta or Puyol? Don't know which category I belong to, so I'll come up with a different example. Being Croatian, I experienced our fight for independence (only a child back then) led by Tuđman who later became Croatia's first president. A legend, you could say. Even more than a legend. Do I like him? No. Not at all. But there's respect for some aspects of his work. Feel that's a category you might have in mind.

I might be in the wrong but that is how I feel and if I should make a guess at least 90% of all genuine fans (no trying to start a dick measurement competition here but people should get the point here when reading my previous post) feel the same way.

What's your criterion? Just curious here.

 

[DonAK]

I have a bigger problem with people questioning Pep as a culer than liking him.

A guy that was a ball boy, went to La Masia, made it to the first team, made it as the captain, won it all as a player and then won it all as a manager is more of a 'Barcelonista' than any of us here.

People questioning his loyalty to Barcelona because of his own personal ambitions as a manager and being unable to differentiate between that is something I frankly find stupid.

 

[Leo_Messi]

I dislike Pep today, so I will explain why, since you asked the question.

I dislike Pep mostly because of what our fans have "made" out of him in a post-Pep era.
He is the best manager who has ever coached our club, but I am personally pissed of things like:
1. we should try to play exactly (or the closest as possible as Pep did)
If I ask: why?
Reply is: well, it was the most successful era of our club, why shouldn't we try to replicate it?
Me: because it stopped working even for Pep here, and 10 years have passed, football evolved, opponents evolved, and people with those ideas are stuck in time.

To me, saying things like: we should try to play in 2019 as close as possible to how Pep played in 2008-2011 is similar to:
Roma should try to play the same formation, system, type of players as in 2001.
Since, you know, 2001 is the last time when they won Seria A.
Do you think that their magical formula from 2001 would work in 2019?
I don't think so.

Or: Liverpool should try to copy their style, formation, type of players from late 80s.
Since this is when they won last titles.
I mean, if it worked like a charm in 80s, the same thing should work in 2018, right?
Well, that system won't work.

I know, we'll now read more hyperbole answers like: Roma's team from 2001 was just a regular team, and Pep's team from 2008-2011 was one of the best teams ever so it "is worth" to copy it, compared to Roma's or Liverpool's case.
Well, I don't think so.
Imo, both teams and tactics are a part of a past.
And it is ok to play somewhat close to it, but being obssessed with it is what is pissing me off.

Also, I am pissed how a lot of fans (I guess 15-25 years old guys), are those extreme Pepistas.
Imo, that is probably because in their "formative footballing years", in teen years, Barca and Pep were dominating the world and in their young brain (in that time), Pep and his football became an image of perfection and he was put on a pedestal and everything ever will be compared to him.
For example, in my "formative footballing years", when I was a teen, in 90s, Milan and Juventus were the best teams in the world.
And their football was less beautiful, more physical, tactical and efficient.
Barca played the most beautiful even then, but more logical-Italians were always winning CL titles.
And since I am personally more biased towards titles than to beautiful play (it doesn't mean that I don't like a beautiful play), my brain is wired in a different way than in 20-25 years old guys from this forum.
My brain and footballing views are wired in a way: Barca's eye-pleasing style is usually not good enough. We usually always (before Messi) lacked some tactical points and some physique to win on a highest level.

Also, I hate those "this is Barca's style" dumb posts.
As if: Pep's style equals Barca.
NO.
Pep's style equals=Pep's Barca.
Barca's style was always attacking, possession based and beautiful.
Pep's style is only one of Barca's versions.
Even though, it was the best version.
But I am extremely pissed with posts: THAT is Barca's way, when people are wanting to say: Pep's style is Barca!
They probably haven't watched Cruijff, Van Gaal, Rijkaard, who's Barcas played quite close to Pep's Barcas, even though less successfull (but again, they didn't have Messi and we can write 20 000 pages about that and we wouldn't agree).

In short, I don't dislike Pep and Pep's Barca.
I was happy back then and enjoyed trophies and our style, like everyone else.
I do HATE what people (especially younger guys, imo) have made out of Pep in the last 10 years.

2. regarding Pep as a person, he is quite a stubborn guy. And quite an asshole in a lot of cases.
Way less likeable for me than Rijkaard, Lucho, Tito from our last coaches.
I would personally rather take a drink with Rijkaard or Lucho.
Pep looks kind of an asshole who will stab you in a back sooner or later.
That's just my opinion about him.

Between these two points, my personal dislike for Pep is around:
80:20 or 70:30=Barca's fan obssession and hyperbole about Pep, and a smaller part because of Pep's dickish personality.

Also, I am fan of Barca, but I am not at all a fan of City.
I want to move away from Pep's style and so, I would rather see him lose so that both Pep and our fans can close that chapter and move to something different/evolved.

That said, I still think that Pep is the greatest coach whom we eve had.
And thanks for that, Pep.

But again, that was 10 years ago.
Do I want to replicate Pep's style? F*** no.
But also, I don't want to replicate even Van Gaal's or Rijkaard's styles from the same reason=they are a part of a past.
I would, though, take the best parts and basics out of all eras and add some new things, needed for 2019 (for example, how I see it: Pep's football with a more physique, or with a taller striker so that we could score both in Pep's style and through crosses in RM's CR7's style).

Maybe now some people will have a better insight why some Barca's fans are against Pep and against his cult-level of obssession, to some extent.

I am not disliking Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Ronnie and similar, for example.

Don't take it personal but I only read the first 8 lines of your post but based on that I can somewhat guess the content of the remaining part of your post based on that alone and your initial statement of "why you dislike Pep".

You have basically developed an irrational dislike of Pep for reasons that have little if anything to do with Pep. Basically Pep is the victim of his own enormous success if it his his fault (absurd and laughable) that the board has had no sporting project and have failed to understand that football has evolved since 10 years ago. Pep did much more than we could ever ask him for as a manager and he has made it perfectly clear that his return is unlikely. He never promised to stay for a long time, rather the contrary, he always made it clear that the opposite would be the case. As for football changing (which is a natural and normal thing) this is something that Pep himself has realized to make it even more absurd.

What does it have to do with liking/disliking certain player? Why would Barca fans (genuine or not, regardless of your standards) need to like any of Messi, Xavi, Iniesta or Puyol? Don't know which category I belong to, so I'll come up with a different example. Being Croatian, I experienced our fight for independence (only a child back then) led by Tuđman who later became Croatia's first president. A legend, you could say. Even more than a legend. Do I like him? No. Not at all. But there's respect for some aspects of his work. Feel that's a category you might have in mind.


What's your criterion? Just curious here.

I am talking about respect more than liking. Maybe I was not clear. That and a very annoying and absurd tendency of supposed fans of the club trying to belittle Pep at every opportunity and claiming (absurdly) that his football is finished etc. while that is clearly not the case and while he has proven himself and his philosophy in 2 countries now (England and Germany) outside of Spain. Now I know that people will talk about his CL record but before the absurd run of Zidane in the CL, no manager has been as succesfull as him in the CL in the past 15 years. Only Ancelotti and Mourinho are comparable and both have nothing on his league record, in particular Ancelotti. Not to mention that Pep was very unlucky not to reach at least 1 CL final during his 3 years at Bayern. I remember that 2016 semifinal against Atlético where Bayern completely outplayed Atlético and they should have won 5-1. Only miracles and pure luck saved Simeone. That Bayern team was a better team than RM in Zidane's first half season. Had Atlético not advanced to the final, RM would most likely not have won the CL that year as they barely defeated a much inferior Atlético in the final that year. No 3 CL's in a row either. The usual small details that change football which is why it is so absurd to deem Pep a failure for not winning 3 CL's in 3 years. What RM and Zidane did recently was an abnormality and let us not even go into detail in terms of referee decisions that went their way, off-side goals in finals (Ramos in 2016, similar to how RM won against Juve in 1998, also an off-side goal), this season's absurd mistakes by Karius, Saleh's injury etc. Not to even mention the semifinal against Bayern. Never have I seen so much absurd luck in such a short timespan in 1 tournament. Anyway this will never occur since VAR will be used for the first time this February. So they will never be this lucky again. RM was the best team in Europe only in 2017. Not in 2016 and certainly not this past season. However CL is what it is. A knockout competition with at most 6 knockout games and a final. You can have a road to a CL final where you are playing against the likes of Roma, Wolfsburg and Pellegrini's last season version of Man City (lol) and you can have a road to a final that is composed of solely league winners as we had in 2015. Both CL-wins count similarly though. It was never the best measurement to declare which team is the best in Europe. However due to the media attention, money etc. most fans are obsessive about it. It is what it is.

Did I not make the criteria pretty clear? Pep is a club legend who has contributed immensely as a player and manager. What better criteria can there be for him to gain the respect of the same supposed fans who witnessed the clubs greatest success with the same Pep as the manager?

Fans don't have to like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta or Puyol but won't you find it strange if the vast majority did not considering what all 4 have given the club and us as fans?

 

[Barcaman]

Barca fans who are Pep haters usually support an English club other than Man City. Then again supporting top teams from random countries for the sake of it isn’t my thing.

Strawman. Haven't seen pep haters in a sense you imagine. I guess they'd have to include everyone who is not cheering for pep as manager of some other club. Last I checked football is a team sport and people cheering for a manager could be called a cult. As many others I've been following club football before pep and reckon I will do so after him. Don't see what's to cheer with fake clubs like ManCity either. Always liked Liverpool better in England or Dortmund in Germany.

Had pep picked a real challenge I bet more people would follow and he, in turn, would earn more respect from everyone.

Pep coaching Barca was magic. But that's the past which we are yet to appreciate and evaluate fully. People rooting or not for him in his post-Barca career has no difference whatsoever with what he did here or with Barca for that matter.

 

[BBZ8800]

Not to mention that Pep was very unlucky not to reach at least 1 CL final during his 3 years at Bayern. I remember that 2016 semifinal against Atlético where Bayern completely outplayed Atlético and they should have won 5-1. Only miracles and pure luck saved Simeone. That Bayern team was a better team than RM in Zidane's first half season. Had Atlético not advanced to the final, RM would most likely not have won the CL that year as they barely defeated a much inferior Atlético in the final that year. No 3 CL's in a row either. The usual small details that change football which is why it is so absurd to deem Pep a failure for not winning 3 CL's in 3 years. What RM and Zidane did recently was an abnormality and let us not even go into detail in terms of referee decisions that went their way, off-side goals in finals (Ramos in 2016, similar to how RM won against Juve in 1998, also an off-side goal), this season's absurd mistakes by Karius, Saleh's injury etc. Not to even mention the semifinal against Bayern. Never have I seen so much absurd luck in such a short timespan in 1 tournament.

Your post is again one of the reasons why I dislike what our fans have made out of Pep.
So, you see, your post is full of: Zidane was lucky, RM was lucky, Pep was unlucky, Pep could have done the same or better if it wasn't for bad luck.

Then, on the other hand, our (Barca's) and Pep's domination started with a biggest robbery in a modern CL history.
On top of robbery, Chelsea has totally outplayed us and we scored a goal from an only shot on target over 90 minutes.

So, you see, this sounds like a cult following and a total lack of objecitivity.
Zidane was lucky, RM was lucky, their opponents were poor, they had easy draws.
On the other hand, a neutral fan could say the same thing about us:
1. we had a lot of easy draws back then
2. we didn't face almost a single thuggish/physical team back then. And whenever we have faced them, like Chelsea in 2009 or Inter in 2010=we lost.
Ok, we didn't actually lose in 2009, but that was due to a robbery from Uefa.
3. ok, Atletico, Karius and Bayern's GK were shit, but then, Pep won a title in 2009 after we should have lost against Chelsea, and in 2011's final, we won against Man Utd who had 28 years old Giggs, and 30 years old Park and Carrick as central midfielders.
Do you think that Man Utd's team from 2011 was any better than Karius, poor Atletico and similar? I don't.

The point is: in football, on top of skills, you always need some amount of luck.
Real had awesome skills under Zidane and their share of luck.
Pep had the best team eve and shit ton of luck in a lot of aspects also (I know, someone will throw volcanoes now as a reply).

We were lucky sometimes, we were unlucky.
But your post, and 1000s of other posts from Pep-defenders are always quite similar:
1. more or less, Barca/aka Pep (since he is Barca, lol) won all trophies deservedly
2. and we/or HE could have won way more if he wasn't sooooo unlucky
3. while on the other hand, RM and 4 Cls (which for neutral fans=are the greatest team ever) won majority of titles=due to an insane luck, easy draws, crappy opponents etc.

So, in a previous post I tried to explain why I do hate Pep today (because of what our fans have made out of him) and then you make a new post and make my hate even 1% bigger than 2 hours ago.

For the end, one more time:
1. I love Barca, I loved Pep back then
2. that is our best era ever.
3. but still, we were Uefalona in 2009 and didn't need to play against thug/physical teams under Pep, unlike today, we had easy draws and we were paired all the time with technical teams back then like Arsenal, Porto, Man Utd and similar.
Even prime Busi, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi weren't able to create more than 1 shot against Chelsea on Stamford Brigde.
Pep's fans usually "forget" those stats against physical teams.

I mean, I am happy that we won a title in 2009, but I won't lie that we were Uefalona.
Or that in 2013 we had an ill coach.
But again, in 2015, Bayern played with 8 injured players against us.
It usually evens out in life.
You were lucky sometimes, in other years, you are unlucky.
In one year, volcanoes are against you.
In the other years, a ref gives you a CL.
RM was maybe even more luckier and protected than us.
But we had a same amount of luck and protection so, imo, it is stupid to point fingers only at RM regarding luck/refs.

Ask yourself, if there wasn't refs, Uefalona and Chelsea's match from 2009', what would have happened with Pep later?
Maybe he would have left after 1-2 years.
Maybe we would have never won more CLs. Maybe our team would have never clicked in that way.

Our most successful and romantic era was also built on extreme luck and cheating.

 

[Leo_Messi]

Your post is again one of the reasons why I dislike what our fans have made out of Pep.
So, you see, your post is full of: Zidane was lucky, RM was lucky, Pep was unlucky, Pep could have done the same or better if it wasn't for bad luck.

Then, on the other hand, our (Barca's) and Pep's domination started with a biggest robbery in a modern CL history.
On top of robbery, Chelsea has totally outplayed us and we scored a goal from an only shot on target over 90 minutes.

So, you see, this sounds like a cult following and a total lack of objecitivity.
Zidane was lucky, RM was lucky, their opponents were poor, they had easy draws.
On the other hand, a neutral fan could say the same thing about us:
1. we had a lot of easy draws back then
2. we didn't face almost a single thuggish/physical team back then. And whenever we have faced them, like Chelsea in 2009 or Inter in 2010=we lost.
Ok, we didn't actually lose in 2009, but that was due to a robbery from Uefa.
3. ok, Atletico, Karius and Bayern's GK were shit, but then, Pep won a title in 2009 after we should have lost against Chelsea, and in 2011's final, we won against Man Utd who had 28 years old Giggs, and 30 years old Park and Carrick as central midfielders.
Do you think that Man Utd's team from 2011 was any better than Karius, poor Atletico and similar? I don't.

The point is: in football, on top of skills, you always need some amount of luck.
Real had awesome skills under Zidane and their share of luck.
Pep had the best team eve and shit ton of luck in a lot of aspects also (I know, someone will throw volcanoes now as a reply).

We were lucky sometimes, we were unlucky.
But your post, and 1000s of other posts from Pep-defenders are always quite similar:
1. more or less, Barca/aka Pep (since he is Barca, lol) won all trophies deservedly
2. and we/or HE could have won way more if he wasn't sooooo unlucky
3. while on the other hand, RM and 4 Cls (which for neutral fans=are the greatest team ever) won majority of titles=due to an insane luck, easy draws, crappy opponents etc.

So, in a previous post I tried to explain why I do hate Pep today (because of what our fans have made out of him) and then you make a new post and make my hate even 1% bigger than 2 hours ago.

For the end, one more time:
1. I love Barca, I loved Pep back then
2. that is our best era ever.
3. but still, we were Uefalona in 2009 and didn't need to play against thug/physical teams under Pep, unlike today, we had easy draws and we were paired all the time with technical teams back then like Arsenal, Porto, Man Utd and similar.

I mean, I am happy that we won a title in 2009, but I won't lie that we were Uefalona.
Or that in 2013 we had an ill coach.
But again, in 2015, Bayern played with 8 injured players against us.
It usually evens out in life.
You were lucky sometimes, in other years, you are unlucky.
In one year, volcanoes are against you.
In the other years, a ref gives you a CL.
RM was maybe even more luckier and protected than us.
But we had a same amount of luck and protection so, imo, it is stupid to point fingers only at RM regarding luck/refs.

Ask yourself, if there wasn't refs, Uefalona and Chelsea's match from 2009', what would have happened with Pep later?
Maybe he would have left after 1-2 years.
Maybe we would have never won more CLs. Maybe our team would have never clicked in that way.

Our most successful and romantic era was also built on extreme luck and cheating.

Pep won 14 trophies in 4 seasons. 3 league titles and 2 CL. Reached 4 CL semifinals in a row. Created and shaped the club much more than Zidane ever shaped RM squad wise or tactically wise. He could have reached 4 finals in a row (and likely would have won all 4) had he had the absurd luck that Zidane has had in virtually every knockout game against other top clubs but which Pep lacked in several (Inter 2010 - volcano, robbery in the first leg, Chelsea 2012 etc.). Playing some of the best football in history in the process. Widely recognized as such by most objective observers and past players and legends of the game. Nobody speaks about this RM in the same manner not to mention that they won less trophies and in a much less convincing fashion. Comparing Pep with Zidane is absurd or that Barça team with Zidane's RM.

As for that Chelsea game, that video is extremely one-sided. Barça were denied a clear cut penalty in the first leg. Abidal was absurdly sent off. Tons of other referee decisions that could have gone our way. It's also the only such game that you can mention. Zidane's RM had at least 4-5 such games with absurd luck and favorable referee decisions, absurd red cards to opponents, offside goals in finals, last second equalizers in finals (on a corner that should have been a goal kick moreover) several goalkeeping mistakes 2 games in a row (return seminal leg and final more precisely!) that you will never see in the next 100 years etc.


I have never heard a single neutral fan claim that Zidane's RM is the greatest team ever. Has to be one of the biggest jokes. A team that was totally dominated in 2/3 of the season's competitions and 80% of all season games (La Liga and Copa del Rey). Totally dominated outside of the 2016-17 season which was gifted to them on a plate but they barely even won that league title.

Yes, Chelsea during the 2008-2009 season was not a physical team. Man Utd that was schooled in 2 CL finals were not a physical team either.

Mourinho's Inter back in 2010 with Maicon, Samuel, Chivu, Materazzi, Cambiasso, Milito, Muntari, Córdoba, prime Sneijder etc. were not a physical team either.

Hard to take your post seriously with so many absurd nonsense claims and contradictions.

Each to his own. You can belittle Pep, the best club team in history (in terms of trophies, statistically and sheer dominance on the field) and proclaim Zidane's RM team as the best team ever when they failed to be the best team in Spain for 3 years in a leveled playing field (league competition, 19 home and away games against the same opponents). However none of this changes the facts that I wrote about Pep or the fact that you are blaming him for ills that are not his.

 

[BBZ8800]

Yes, Chelsea during the 2008-2009 season was not a physical team. Man Utd that was schooled in 2 CL finals were not a physical team either.

Mourinho's Inter back in 2010 with Maicon, Samuel, Chivu, Materazzi, Cambiasso, Milito, Muntari, Córdoba, prime Sneijder etc. were not a physical team either.

When I say physical teams, I mean about teams who are physically stronger than Barca in terms of strength, height and some thugish behavior.
And yet, who are very, very technical also.

For example today, Atletico, Juve, Bayern, Liverpool.

Back then, Chelsea was way more physical than us.
And we couldn't do shit even with prime Busi, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi.
Ref saved us.

In 2010, another physical team with good technique and organization.
Strong defense, two fighters Cambiaso and Motta in the middle, plus technical Sneijder.
In attack, a fullback-attacker Etoo, tall and strong Milito and a runner Pandev.
In which universe is that NOT a physically stronger team?
And they knocked us out again.

My point for years is that Barca is lacking some physique for the CL level.
Even Pep's team with prime Xavi and Iniesta struggled again physical&technical teams.
And today, we are always knocked out by the same type of teams: Atletico, Atletico, Bayern, Juve, Psg, Roma.
We are rarely beaten by technical teams like Man Utd and Arsenal.

So, my problem with Pepistas, regarding Barca's future is that they are overhyping Pep's teams, who have already struggled in all away CL matches and against ALL teams who were both physical and technical.

And then it sounds as if Pep's teams were beating EVERYONE.
While, as said above, even then we didn't have the answer for teams like Inter and Chelsea.
And today, when football raised the bar in terms of physical skills even more, Pepistas want to copy Pep from 2010, who struggled against these teams even with prime Xavi and Iniesta.

And then, open any topic today, and questions like: why is stupid EV not playing with Dembele-Suarez-Messi, Coutinho-Arthur-Busi?
And we can go in circles for 20 000 pages.

One more time, I don't hate Barca's Pep.
I do hate what people have made out of Pep.
How we have deleted all of his team's flaws and created a story of an invincible team and a system, if executed properly, both in 2009 and 2019.
But that is simply not true.
Especially for 2019'.

And every coach of Barca will be compared to Pep and with: how close has he come in executing his exact style and system.
And everything different than Pep's system will be a sackable offense for years to come.

In that sense, Pep's legacy is a huge burden today.
People are stuck in 2009' and they don't want to move.
Since, again, they have lately created a story of an invincible team&system which would work equally as good in 2019'.
Yet, that system didn't work against teams like Inter and Chelsea neither then.
Neither for Barca post Pep in a CL.
Neither for Pep's teams after Barca in a CL.

On the other hand, though, that system is still good enough:
1. Against Getafe and West Ham, for league titles
2. Against big teams like Arsenal and Porto

That system rarely works against physical and direct teams like Real, Atletico, Liverpool in a CL knockout matches.

 

[Messigician]

People can respect Pep for what he did for our club while also dislike the hero worhsip by people on here.

That simple. And the fact people can't differentiate between people who have a problem with Pep and those who dislike the way supporters worship the ground he walks on is exactly what I'm talking about.