Philippe Coutinho

Neeraj

Neeraj

Senior Member
When we got Coutinho, he was what, 26-27? Any decently managed club would have managed to sell him after a year or two if things didn't work out. With all our problems out in the public and us being such poor sellers, we have this elephant that we're going to find very, very hard to get rid off.
 
FinBarcelonafan

FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
Neeraj said:
When we got Coutinho, he was what, 26-27? Any decently managed club would have managed to sell him after a year or two if things didn't work out. With all our problems out in the public and us being such poor sellers, we have this elephant that we're going to find very, very hard to get rid off.
Click to expand...

He has value but salary is the issue. We probably need to eat big part of it to get rid of him. (Just do it and then get money back.. )
 
BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
catalinutzR80 said:
what does it matter who we are going to play if we sell him since the season is finished anyways ?


Puig is much better on whatever role compared to Coutinho but cowman won't play him due to personal reasons.

Griezmann and Braithwaite up front

i'd rather we play a 4 4 2 since Messi is always in the midfield , he can form a mid with puig pedri and frenkie as a dm till the end of the season when he leaves , that is if he won't leave in january.

we can play from now on minguenza and araujo as cb pair

this is what I would go till the end of the season in La Liga since we don't have chances of winning it and we are going to be in top 4 regardless, so might want to have some fun in some games. Formation might change depending what we do in the CL.


And yeah , i'd rather see a Frenkie , Puig and Pedri midfield because what's the worst that can happen? Getting humiliated in the CL? Probably not but even if so , we've already seen that a couple of years in a row with shit midfield made of Busquets and Rakitic.


a midfield of Frenkie Puig and Pedri would make a midfield of Busi Frenkie Pjanic look like cones.
Click to expand...

I won't even comment on Messi because he is done.

Longterm, imagine playing 433 with Puig, Pedri, Frenkie.
Right now we are suffering from TikiTaka era consequences where it was possible to win with 460 formation without strikers.
It was possible to have 6 David Silva/Iniesta clones, you would have 80-90% of possession and you would just score goals due to a pure possession because you would just create 2-3 clear chances eventually.

Due to this, a new gen of kids often grew up into somewhat onedimensional footballers who are only good at possession/passing/press resistance but suck in other end product situations like defending or scoring.

A prime example was Arthur.
World class in recycling of possession, an absolute shit in the final third and defending.
A crap player for 2020, but awesome for Del Bosque's 460.

Sadly, football evolved and modern European teams like Bayern, Liverpool and even Real have built teams consisted of players:
1. With good pace and physique
2. Players who can press and defend
3. Attackers and midfielders who can score

Now, for example, Arthur has none of it.
But hey, he has Barca DNA, lol.

Puig and Pedri are not too far from it
1. Does Puig have modern physique? No
2. Can he defend? No
3. Can he score? No

What can he do?
Recycle possession and make some passes.

Pedri, while being very talented, lacks in a lot of modern areas.
1. Physique? Meh
2. Defending? He is like an older brother of Denis. Better, but not too much better.
3. Can he score? Lol, no.

So, you want to pair two new shiny toys who can't defend and can't score with Frenkie who needs someone to babysit for him.
So, defensive wise, that midfield is suicidal.

Further, if you add Messi or Dembele, it gets even more suicidal.

Now, let's move to scoring:
Messi can't score
Griezz struggles
Dembele is unpredictable
Fati can score
Braith is unpredictable

For Del Bosque's midfield to work, you either need to travel back to 2010 or you need 3 killer finishers.

So, if you want Puig-Pedri, you need three finishers in attack.
We have one, Ansu.

Or, if you don't have 3 finishers, you need midfielders who can score.

Or, even better, like Bayern and Liverpool: they have killer forwards plus midfielders who can score here and there.

And then we have Barca (and current Pep) where we have:
1. Forwards who can't score
2. Slow sterile possession
3. Outdated type of players, physique wise
4. Midfielders who can't score

Do I need to call Sherlock to explain why both Barca and City suck, struggle and why are we falling behind modern teams?

But hey, guys, keep dreaming how Pedri-Puig is the way to go.

ONLY if you'll invent a time machine where we will move backwards towards 2010 when these footballing ideas worked.

In that sense, this is why I like Cou.
On paper, he can score.
I am still blaming Messi for his displays and a lack of more chances, shots and goals.
 
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serghei

serghei

Senior Member
So many generalizations there, man, most of those are pure conjectures. :lol:

You make it sound as if Barca in the past were basically passing the ball uselessly and created 2-3 chance a game. When in fact, we averaged 15 shots a game. You make it sound as if we only had weak players physically, when in fact we also had physical beasts like Abidal, Puyol, Henry, Keita, Eto'o, Dani Alves, Marquez, Mascherano.

You simply took the washed-up, slow, and star-player-based version post-Guardiola, and from this, you construct a fake argument that that's what we were at our best as well. Just that in the meantime the others evolved. Pure bullshit and disrespectful.

I hoped you'd give this a rest. The prime Barcelona, outside of being supremely gifted technically like no other side we've seen, was an extremely physical, hard working team with great intensity, great pressure, great stamina. Back then, the fans of the mighty strong EPL teams were blaming us for doping. :lol: I don't know how did you fabricate the notion that, physically, that side was weak.

So, to sum up.

A washed-up possession side, with slow, old, and unmotivated players, plus average managers, will indeed look like a stale possession game with low chances and so on... every bad stuff you say.

But. big but. A good version of that looks like a more technical Liverpool-Leipzig combo. Equally great at pressing and intensity, with a few levels more on the technical side, and possibly some Ballon d'Or level players added up.
 
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Messigician

Messigician

Senior Member
serghei said:
So many generalizations there, man, most of those are pure conjectures. :lol:

You make it sound as if Barca in the past were basically passing the ball uselessly and created 2-3 chance a game. When in fact, we averaged 15 shots a game. You make it sound as if we only had weak players physically, when in fact we also had physical beasts like Abidal, Puyol, Henry, Keita, Eto'o, Dani Alves, Marquez, Mascherano.

You simply took the washed-up, slow, and star-player-based version post-Guardiola, and from this, you construct a fake argument that that's what we were at our best as well. Just that in the meantime the others evolved. Pure bullshit and disrespectful.

I hoped you'd give this a rest. The prime Barcelona, outside of being supremely gifted technically like no other side we've seen, was an extremely physical, hard working team with great intensity, great pressure, great stamina. Back then, the fans of the mighty strong EPL teams were blaming us for doping. :lol: I don't know how did you fabricate the notion that, physically, that side was weak.

So, to sum up.

A washed-up possession side, with slow, old, and unmotivated players, plus average managers, will indeed look like a stale possession game with low chances and so on... every bad stuff you say.

But. big but. A good version of that looks like a more technical Liverpool-Leipzig combo. Equally great at pressing and intensity, with a few levels more on the technical side, and possibly some Ballon d'Or level players added up.
Click to expand...

He needs to watch the 5-0a Clasico and keep an eye on Xavi
 
V

vegitot

Senior Member
BBZ8800 said:
I won't even comment on Messi because he is done.

Longterm, imagine playing 433 with Puig, Pedri, Frenkie.
Right now we are suffering from TikiTaka era consequences where it was possible to win with 460 formation without strikers.
It was possible to have 6 David Silva/Iniesta clones, you would have 80-90% of possession and you would just score goals due to a pure possession because you would just create 2-3 clear chances eventually.

Due to this, a new gen of kids often grew up into somewhat onedimensional footballers who are only good at possession/passing/press resistance but suck in other end product situations like defending or scoring.

A prime example was Arthur.
World class in recycling of possession, an absolute shit in the final third and defending.
A crap player for 2020, but awesome for Del Bosque's 460.

Sadly, football evolved and modern European teams like Bayern, Liverpool and even Real have built teams consisted of players:
1. With good pace and physique
2. Players who can press and defend
3. Attackers and midfielders who can score

Now, for example, Arthur has none of it.
But hey, he has Barca DNA, lol.

Puig and Pedri are not too far from it
1. Does Puig have modern physique? No
2. Can he defend? No
3. Can he score? No

What can he do?
Recycle possession and make some passes.

Pedri, while being very talented, lacks in a lot of modern areas.
1. Physique? Meh
2. Defending? He is like an older brother of Denis. Better, but not too much better.
3. Can he score? Lol, no.

So, you want to pair two new shiny toys who can't defend and can't score with Frenkie who needs someone to babysit for him.
So, defensive wise, that midfield is suicidal.

Further, if you add Messi or Dembele, it gets even more suicidal.

Now, let's move to scoring:
Messi can't score
Griezz struggles
Dembele is unpredictable
Fati can score
Braith is unpredictable

For Del Bosque's midfield to work, you either need to travel back to 2010 or you need 3 killer finishers.

So, if you want Puig-Pedri, you need three finishers in attack.
We have one, Ansu.

Or, if you don't have 3 finishers, you need midfielders who can score.

Or, even better, like Bayern and Liverpool: they have killer forwards plus midfielders who can score here and there.

And then we have Barca (and current Pep) where we have:
1. Forwards who can't score
2. Slow sterile possession
3. Outdated type of players, physique wise
4. Midfielders who can't score

Do I need to call Sherlock to explain why both Barca and City suck, struggle and why are we falling behind modern teams?

But hey, guys, keep dreaming how Pedri-Puig is the way to go.

ONLY if you'll invent a time machine where we will move backwards towards 2010 when these footballing ideas worked.

In that sense, this is why I like Cou.
On paper, he can score.
I am still blaming Messi for his displays and a lack of more chances, shots and goals.
Click to expand...

First of all, Messi creates most big chances in Europe top fice league this season for his teammates but barely get assist. So what is wrong here??? You may know it already. Our offense sucks. Coutinho sucks too.

It is true Messi right now is not a vintage Messi who scored goals out of nothing, but Messi has to do it all alone and his shots are from not easy position to score.

On paper, Coutinho can score??? Nope. How many goals he score this season? Now he looks even worse than his 18/19 counterpart. At least back then Coutinho could shoot from distance.

And dont tell me Coutinho is good at defend. Griezmann is actually that one, not Coutinho.

About midfield, it is true that the midfield barely score and for some reason we barely try to shoot.

Pedri just turn 18, disagree about his physique. 2 more years he will grow stronger.
 
BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
serghei said:
So many generalizations there, man, most of those are pure conjectures. :lol:

You make it sound as if Barca in the past were basically passing the ball uselessly and created 2-3 chance a game. When in fact, we averaged 15 shots a game. You make it sound as if we only had weak players physically, when in fact we also had physical beasts like Abidal, Puyol, Henry, Keita, Eto'o, Dani Alves, Marquez, Mascherano.
Click to expand...

1. We created chances back then, so did Brasil in 1970 with Pele and Koeman's Barca in 1992.
Can those two win today? No

2. Look at those physical beasts you mentioned.
You have a grand total of 2 attacking players: Etoo and Henry, both signed BEFORE Pep.
And what is funny, Pep traded Etoo after one season.
Henry retired after one season.
And he traded Zlatan after one season.
The only other player mentioned is Keita who was the 12th player.

It's a fact that Pep traded versatility for GOATness in one skill.
He took Rijkaard's team which was good and versatile, but not perfect.
And created a team who was perfect in a pig-in-the-middle.

In terms of players, the same.
From strong and athletic pivots, he turned to Busi and Rodri.
He hates no9, invented a false 9 and lately plays with Jesus.
He killed corners and invented short corners.
He killed risky long range shots.
During 2008-2012, he killed crosses and headers and invented a total possession.

For some time it worked.

Pep's football is like some sort of a bug in videogames where you have all skills around 70%, and then due to some mistake, you are allowed to transform all of your skillpoints into one, overpowered skill.
Pep basically turned an allrounder character with 70% in all skills into a character with 300% in one special skill and with 20% in everything else.

And since that character is so good at that one skill, no one was able to exploit his flaws because they would got killed as soon as they would come close to that overpowered character.

But over time, crazy opponents figured out how to neutralize that one overpowered skill of our character, they sent emails with tips and tricks to every single player in the world and that's Barca/Pep after 2012.

Teams who try to play on the same overpowered skill as in 2010, not realizing that literally ANYONE has codes how to kill us.
And since we ruined our other skills to get that one owerpowered skill (possession, passing, technique, movement) we traded everything else so we are quite easy to get beaten today (defending, heading, poor physique, predictable attacking patterns, no crosses, no corners, no long range attempts).

Pep brought 4 years of out of this world happiness, but now we will probably suffer for 20-30 years due to the ideological consequences of that success.
 
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J

JamDav1982

Senior Member
BBZ just making things up as usual.... Pep killed corners... Jesus is a false nine..Pep killed long range shots.

Pep has never killed crosses. KDB crosses as much as anyone in the league and Alves used to pump in crosses under him as well.

It has been one of his go to methods of trying to break teams down to put KDB out wide to start crossing the ball in games.

Tries to hard to find reasons to fit narrative... Rodri is big and strong... ignore that and focus on him being slow etc to fit narrative.
 
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L

Laplacian

Senior Member
He's just a contrarian who cares more about arguing than the actual football itself, and football just happens to be the avenue he chose to use that aspect of his personality.
 
George_Costanza

George_Costanza

Active member
JamDav1982 said:
The final 5m to make the 20m in total if what was reported at time is accurate.

This comes up quite often and usually Liverpool media claim it is not true and already received 15 of the 20m.
Click to expand...

Actually this reminds me of my argument with you in 2017. I think I was one of few people who opposed singing Coutinho and even said Muniain would have been a better signing lol Munian would have costed us only 30m and I'm sure he would have been a better fit for us than Coutinho. :lol:
 
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