Premier League 23/24

[KingLeo10]

This lineup - god damn I miss those days

You walk on the pitch with this 11 - the game is already won!

Literally the weakest player in that lineup is VV, who was still pretty good in clutch moments

 

[soul24rage]

Mid 2000's - Mid 2010 was peak football for me.

Miss those times.

 

[jamrock]

First of all, when I mentioned those sides - Galacticos RM is not what I had in mind. Because they didn't win anything big.

I have too much respect for the great Emiliano Martinez and Super Unai and Aston Villa (as a historical club @fergus90 ) but anyone with a brain can't deny that the rest of the AV squad would shit their pants when they see this lineup take the pitch.

Even though the galacticos didn't win anything, AV aren't touching them, In a NBA style 5 game series.

They might win 1 game that's it, most likely they get swept.

 

[fergus90]

We are not beating any top side from the last 30 years consistently. Of course you get the odd result here and there because no team can win every game every week.

But those Madrid, Barca, Milan sides etc are littered with some of the best players of all time. Football has of course evolved and footballers take better care of their bodies but football started to become much more professional already by the early to mid 90's outside of the pitch and on it.

 

[KingLeo10]

Funny thing though, this team barely won any Serie A against Juventus and Inter Milan, which also had stacked rosters.

Even in the CL, the obviously went to 3 finals in 5 years (winning 2) + the semis vs us in 2006, but also had 2 historic choke jobs in 2004 and 2005.

Agree. They underachieved for their talent (Arguably we did too with Pep's Barca despite the already insane trophy haul of a treble and European double).

By the way, Calciopoli was a watershed moment in football history - Serie A has never been the same since and now won't be the same; we're 20 years on and the league is a shell of itself. The football world greatly misses when Italy had 3 dominant teams and a bunch of dominant 2nd tier teams.

 

[Birdy]

Dude you are missing the point. Ofc Aston Villa is more physical and have more advanced tactics compared to let's say Real Madrid in 2002, just like that team was better in this regard compared to teams in the 80s.

You have to look every era on its own. What we are saying is that back then (I am talking about mid 00s to mid 10s, I cannot talk about other eras as I was barely alive back then) teams were more dominant and had more talented players.

Maybe it is a personal preference, some people prefer to watch a bunch of athletes running up and down. But even the most delusional would have to admit that when you look at the roster of the 2006 or 2010 WC compared to 2018 or 2022 WC, it is night and day in terms of individual quality.

Likewise, it is an objective truth that most European giants are in decline right now and some of them have been in a decline for 5-10 years already.

Only a few people will be remembering Aston Villa in 20 years' time.

First of all, there is no such era as mid 00s to mid 10s
Parsing is subjective to some extent, but the way you do it here does not correspond at all to reality
2008-09 is a landmark. Pep and his Barca changed football from that year onwards.
So pre-2008 and post-2008 are different eras for sure

About the individual quality, I didn't deny that. But that comes down to technique on the ball plainly, and nothing else IMO. Because all other skills are improving as time goes by
And the same can be said about earlier times. The technique of great footballers in the 60s if you watch the footage is much better on average than the technique of the great footballers of the 90s or the 00s

That discussion is inetivable comparison between eras, which I agree with you can't be made easily.
If we judge players within their era, it's much easier to judge impact WITHIN the era, and then compare that impact, as magnitude, to the impact WITHIN another era of another great side

 

[Birdy]

First of all, when I mentioned those sides - Galacticos RM is not what I had in mind. Because they didn't win anything big.

I have too much respect for the great Emiliano Martinez and Super Unai and Aston Villa (as a historical club @fergus90 ) but anyone with a brain can't deny that the rest of the AV squad would shit their pants when they see this lineup take the pitch.

Great side, great team, one of the greatest teams of all time in the book.

Ok, we agree on that.

The question that was posed is different: Could that team, with their tactics, and their players play, in everything they could do back then, Aston Villa of 2024, with their tactics players etc, and win?

You don't have to have a very wild imagination to make the thought experiment, and see that that Milan would not stand a chance.
Think of simple stuff at the beginning to understand: the through balls Kaka was playing to Shevchenko and Crespo would not be able to materialize, simply because they would be outrun in the sprint to much more mobile and physical defenders
Same for other simple stuff: Nesta Maldini and Stam were all best defenders on decisions, but were all slow AF. they would get outrun so easily by pure speed

Start thinking such simple differences and you will see that they won't have a chance


PS: Yes, I know, all people love idolizing great teams of the past. But they were great within their ERA only

 

[Windhook]

The process accelerated after the financial crisis of 2008. Italian clubs started buying cheaper players, mainly from Eastern Europe with less potential in the process failing to develop youth football like Germany, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium did. AC Milan, Internazionale, AS Roma all had to change legendary owners as big money evaporated from Italian economy. Fiorentina, Lazio and Parma went mediocre while Napoli is probably the single club that managed to improve in these 20 years.

 

[Loki]

Mid 2000's - Mid 2010 was peak football for me.

Miss those times.

Be glad you experienced them. Newer generations don't know what true beauty is and think today's cyborgs is the best football can offer.

 

[El Gato]

The question that was posed is different: Could that team, with their tactics, and their players play, in everything they could do back then, Aston Villa of 2024, with their tactics players etc, and win?

You don't have to have a very wild imagination to make the thought experiment, and see that that Milan would not stand a chance.

What on earth do they put in the water where you live
That Milan side would wipe the floor with McGinn and co lol

 

[DonAK]

Arne Slot gives off Peter Bosz vibes.

Let's see if he's as stubborn or if he can adapt.

 

[DonAK]

I have to read up on the discussion, but are we seriously debating whether that Milan side or the Galacticos of the early 2000s would struggle versus ASTON VILLA?!

I know football have developed tactically in the last 20 years across the board, but it's not like they were simple-minded peasants back then. It's just these days more mid-level teams have become better tactically when it used to only be the absolute best side back then with a wild card added in between like Porto in 2004.

 

[El Gato]

Also this notion that players back then weren't athletic is perplexing, especially considering AV players are absolutely not it themselves, both in terms of speed, making quick turns and all other things that go into allowing you to read the game effectively

A bloke like Diego Carlos or Pau Torres is absolutely nowhere near Nesta, be it on conditioning or reading the game
Seedorf and Gattuso would both run for days

What even is this suggestion that Milan wouldnt be able to play their game because some lad who's never played a CL fixture would outrun them
Even a feeble soul like Busquets would run circles around these players, let alone Pirlo

 

[soul24rage]

You don't have to have a very wild imagination to make the thought experiment, and see that that Milan would not stand a chance.
Think of simple stuff at the beginning to understand: the through balls Kaka was playing to Shevchenko and Crespo would not be able to materialize, simply because they would be outrun in the sprint to much more mobile and physical defenders
Same for other simple stuff: Nesta Maldini and Stam were all best defenders on decisions, but were all slow AF. they would get outrun so easily by pure speed

Start thinking such simple differences and you will see that they won't have a chance

PS: Yes, I know, all people love idolizing great teams of the past. But they were great within their ERA only

Unai and the Aston Villa players will disagree with you on this notion.

 

[jamrock]

Birdy is getting the 00' and honestly even the late 90's confused
With 50-70's football, sport science was well underway in the 2000's, running around alone isn't going to win these guys games.