Premier League 24/25
- Thread starter Messi983
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Givenchy
Senior Member
De Ligt is a smart transfer, despite naysayers I think he'll do well.
Zirkzee though? The daddy cool looking guy? He isn't what they need up front, probably signing him because he's Dutch. Also linked to Ben Chilwell today.. yikes.
Maradona37
Well-known member
I don't rate either of them, especially not De Ligt. Nobody else seems to want him (maybe wages and fee) and Bayern can't wait to get rid of him, it's hardly an endorsement. He never impresses me when I watch him either - he's very much someone whose reputation is far bigger than his actual ability imo.
Furthermore, I think Ratcliffe is a bluffing moron and this INEOS chapter will all end in tears for them. I've been right about Man United's false dawns for 11 years now.
But time will tell.
Maradona37
Well-known member
Read this online, sums up my feelings on De Ligt. Yes, he's much younger, but he's another bigger club's cast off like Casemiro and Varane were. Ultimately if he were that good he'd be in the Bayern team, wouldn't he?
I don't get how people think it's a good thing signing someone who isn't even wanted at his current club. It worked with buying Sneijder and Robben fromReal Madrid (as I thought it would circa 2009) but they were both much much better players than de Ligt.
'Eric Dier has been keeping him out of the Bayern team which explains why they are letting De Ligt go and the lack of interest from other teams. It’s got Varane written all over it, they never sign players in good parts of their career and always end up with them on the downward spiral.'
I don't get how people think it's a good thing signing someone who isn't even wanted at his current club. It worked with buying Sneijder and Robben fromReal Madrid (as I thought it would circa 2009) but they were both much much better players than de Ligt.
'Eric Dier has been keeping him out of the Bayern team which explains why they are letting De Ligt go and the lack of interest from other teams. It’s got Varane written all over it, they never sign players in good parts of their career and always end up with them on the downward spiral.'
Maradona37
Well-known member
They're clueless, and have been for years. These INEOS chancers are another in the long list of potential failures (as well as their main man being a horrible Brexiteer Tory who pumps poison into the atmosphere and steps on others). They haven't exactly done much at Nice, have they?
I rate Birdy as a poster, but where are his positive comments on De Ligt and Zirkzee coming from? They seem to just be coming from thin air. De Ligt has been a non-entity for years and Zirkzee screams average hypejob like Hojlund or Amrabat or Van De Beek or a million others before them.
We heard this hype about Onana and Mount last summer and they're both shite. I said they'd struggle and was proved right yet again - Man United fans are deluded, that is their problem. The fact is Man United are the best club in the world at hyping their many average/poor players - that's why they talk a good game on their forums but are ALWAYS found out on the pitch.
Ten Hag is pretty moronic too. This is a disaster waiting to happen and I cannot wait to watch it.
Maradona37
Well-known member
We'll see on RVN. But he should help their strikers a bit. You can't turn shite into gold, though.
I will tell you what Man United's real problem as a club is, football-wise - it's not the organisation, or the boardroom, or anything like that (though it's linked to the following). Their real problem is their tradition as a club, and what the club is steeped in. Since Ferguson at least, Man United have identified predominantly with counter-attacking football and being Moments FC - getting outplayed in games (this even happened under Ferguson) but relying on magic to eventually win.
You could do this in the 90s and the 2000s, but since Pep changed football at Barcelona that counter-attacking moment style football with always have a ceiling. The best teams need to play like Man City, or even a hybrid of possession and transition like Klopp's Liverpool. The only club who can get away with being a moments team are Real Madrid, and that's because they have an insane belief that is missing at Old Trafford. And even they are far better in possession than United.
It's this moments style of football that leads United to getting outplayed in every game. But they can still create some magic, hence people saying they scrape wins after getting outplayed.
Furthermore, this is the reason Fernandes and Rashford are their biggest problems - despite them rating them as their best players. These two guys are bona fide counter-attacking footballers, and while they're part of the side and reinforcing this style, Man United will never win the league or come close.
They need to alter their entire ethos as a club. They're a club built on counter-attacking, and that doesn't win the PL nowadays. They'll never be able to play like Man City or Barcelona, as they prefer deficient footballers who can come up with magic moment but are otherwise invisible throughout most of a game.
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Birdy
Senior Member
De Ligt a smart transfer???
Some sense people please!
1) I invite everyone to watch 1 or 2 bologna games from the season that ended.
Zirkzee was the standout player in attack, dropping deep to make everything click, reminiscent of prime Firmino: Very clever in his movement, very clever in his passing, beast between the lines.
All of Italian teams wanted him, Milan had agreed terms with him but didn't want to pay his agent
He is not the traditional no 9, but something much better.
I can already see how ETH will use him: dropping deep to release RAshford Garnacho Antony and the rest in space and in 1-1 situations
TOP TRANSFER
2) De Ligt is a top defender, not WC level of VVD Araujo or so, but a tier below.
The fact that his reputation probably did him a disservice by raising his price and wages from a very young age already is a different topic.
Both Juve and Bayern sold (are selling) him to get rid of his wages, and not for pitch-related reasons
Nah.
Look at the lineups the last 3 months of the season.
The starting CB pair was De Ligt and Dier. Dier never 'kept De Ligt out'. He was keeping Upamecano and Kim out.
And guess what: if he was a good fit for Thomy Tuchel, I bet he can be an even better for ETH, who was in any case the coach that made him explode at Ajax
Birdy
Senior Member
Onana is not a bad transfer for a team that wants to play front foot football.
We saw that at Inter and Ajax.
Issue is that UTD wasn't like that last season.
The bad transfers run deep and many years back.
Of course planning last summer was woeful, I have written it many times.
Trend looks like it stops this summer
Birdy
Senior Member
About Ferguson era, I don't think that's accurate.
They were a possession team that was not playing tiki-taka obviously, they played with long balls, frequent switces of play, very 'English' football in general, but were never giving the initiative to the opponent to wait for their moments.
Look at the two finals against prime Pep's Barca. Ferguson didn't even change the approach for those games, despite Chelsea, Inter, and Mou's Madrid having shown him the way. He opted for staying loyal to what he thought about football and he should be proud for that
As for post-Ferguson, yes absolutely, and that counter-attacking style solidified totally under Soklskier.
ETH, though, in his 1st season played many many games differently, in a possession based way, with rest defense and winning the ball back quickly.
He changed in his 2nd season, because he had to accommodate the holes in his squad, or that's what he said.
Hopefully, he is gonna get back to possession football next season
Maradona37
Well-known member
Fair enough mate - you make some good points. You also seem to have a soft spot for United/Ten Hag whereas I hate United and don't rate Ten Hag, so we are both a little biased.
Just a couple of things to point out - I reckon Onana is very overrated with the ball at his feet. I watched most Man United games last season and, while his short passing is generally good, most of his long passes went straight to the opposition, His appalling long pass percentage would bear out what i seen is true too. You could say that maybe players weren't making themselves available for his passes, but plenty of times he kicked it straight into touch too. He's also a disaster with his hands - he makes regular saves look difficult and just doesn't have a good shot-stopping technique for a keeper.
As for Ferguson's times - I am willing to compromise there. Obviously they were more possession-oriented than now (because they were a better team), but they had no qualms about conceding the ball (especially against the better teams and their peers). They also abused wide play and spammed too many crosses for my liking. Their 90s and 2000s style of play looks prehistoric when you watch a Pep team - seriously, watch a Pep team then watch a Ferguson United team. It is night and day.
Also, you say he should be lauded for never shutting up shop - quite often Ferguson went away in Europe and played 4-5-1 so he could bring teams back to OT and beat them there. He was negative plenty of the time imo. This was more in the 2000s as he had been burnt plenty from going all out attack in the 90s in the CL.
As for the other stuff, I do respect your opinion as a good poster. I might be wrong about de Ligt and Zirkzee - I am not arrogant enough to think I am always right. We will see what happens in the future, but I believe I will end up being right. It isn't even about the players themselves (even though I am not a fan) - it's just that Old Trafford is career suicide and I don't see that changing under Ratcliffe.
Just a couple of things to point out - I reckon Onana is very overrated with the ball at his feet. I watched most Man United games last season and, while his short passing is generally good, most of his long passes went straight to the opposition, His appalling long pass percentage would bear out what i seen is true too. You could say that maybe players weren't making themselves available for his passes, but plenty of times he kicked it straight into touch too. He's also a disaster with his hands - he makes regular saves look difficult and just doesn't have a good shot-stopping technique for a keeper.
As for Ferguson's times - I am willing to compromise there. Obviously they were more possession-oriented than now (because they were a better team), but they had no qualms about conceding the ball (especially against the better teams and their peers). They also abused wide play and spammed too many crosses for my liking. Their 90s and 2000s style of play looks prehistoric when you watch a Pep team - seriously, watch a Pep team then watch a Ferguson United team. It is night and day.
Also, you say he should be lauded for never shutting up shop - quite often Ferguson went away in Europe and played 4-5-1 so he could bring teams back to OT and beat them there. He was negative plenty of the time imo. This was more in the 2000s as he had been burnt plenty from going all out attack in the 90s in the CL.
As for the other stuff, I do respect your opinion as a good poster. I might be wrong about de Ligt and Zirkzee - I am not arrogant enough to think I am always right. We will see what happens in the future, but I believe I will end up being right. It isn't even about the players themselves (even though I am not a fan) - it's just that Old Trafford is career suicide and I don't see that changing under Ratcliffe.
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Givenchy
Senior Member
Problem is, with Firmino, Liverpool had prime Mane and Salah either side of him. United have Rashford and that's basically it. If he isn't in his purple patch form, they are relying on a wasteful Garnacho and Antony who is ass.
You say top transfer? We shall see. I don't think United have enough goals in them to hit a top 4 finish with these players.
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