Quique Setien

[messi2140]

So you are telling these clowns who came out to say " It's not Valverde's fault" everytime they got embarrased by an opponent are turning on Setien in 3 games ? Looks like fake news to me.

 

[bismp]

Unbelievable if true.There’s no hope left for this team

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

That is only one way of looking at it.

I will pull another analogy.
Majority of guys here on a forum want Barca's DNA football.
You have your own brains, ideas, eyes.

Now imagine when someone (me, for example) comes and say that our football is outdated and dead.
will you guys here follow me and my ideas or will you say: you are an idiot etc?

Well, you are amigos in this case.
Why aren't you open to my ideas?
= because you have your own taste, preferences and ideas.

About Messi and players, they play for 15 years.
They have seen a lot of players and coaches in ttheir careers.
They have their own opinion what is good, what is bad and what is questionable.

You guys just don't want to open the doors to ideas that EV and amigos maybe shared the same views on football.
But due to player's age, that was our limit.

And now we have a rookie coach who might be totally lost in estimations how much our players can run, whether some ideas can be achieved with a current rooster etc.

I don't know what you do for living in a real life, but you have probably met guys at your work for whom you could say: this guy is a genious, this guy is ok and this guy doesn't understand anything.

People here are so blinded by their hate towards EV that they think that surely: EV was wrong in everything and that Setien is probably better (since no one can be worse than EV). And in this case, you assume that players are surely a problem.
And you aren't opening doors to an option: there is a strong reason why Setien was fired from the last two midtable clubs and why he was working with cows on his farm until 2 weeks ago.

I mean, what if he has totally wrong, shitty or outdated ideas and players can see that?
But no, Serghei will reply: players have to listen to a coach.
I mean, Barto hired EV.
So, Barto is not too bright.
Barto almost hired Unzue 3 years ago.
Barto had Roberto, Braida, Segura and Abidal as sporting directors.
Barto gave long contracts to Suarez, Busi, Raki and co.

Are you sure that Barto is competent?
And there isn't a possibility that Setien is just a hortible misfit with wrong or totally outdated tactics?

You mentioned Valverde loserball.
What if players and EV talked and agreed about their flaws and together decided that a lower intensity tactics with less movement is the only way to go with our old players?

And a new coach comes and says: you will run like 20 years old kids.
But mister, we are not 20 years old kids...

Or about tactics and positions: Messi played under Rijkaard, Pep, Tito, Tata, Lucho, EV, Setien. 7 Barca's coaches with different ideas.
He (and Busi, Pique) have a nice sample of coaches already.
Don't you think that they are allowed to say and think: wow, this is weird or feels wrong, we suck in this formation...

I mean, for years fans used to say: EV hates Dembele.
Yet, Dembele was probably dumb as fuck on training grounds and there was a reason why a coach and some players gave up on him.
Now, what if a coach is equally as wrong or bad as Dembele?

You guys started with an idea that he is surely way better than EV.
Do you have ANY proofs that he is any good and better than anyone or EV?

All we know about him is that he had a mediocre midtable coaching career, outdated coaching ideas and that Barca is probably too big job for him.

For example, Kovac at Bayern.
Did president and some players turned a back on him because they were spoiled or because he is not good enough for Bayern and everyone, including players have realized that he is lost and clueless at the highest level?

It was Valverdes and players fault. They got satisfied with terrible football. Our gameplay got worse during the time Valverde was here. I didn't see any improvement during 2,5 years. Mostly decline. He couldn't develop any player, he couldn't develop the team. Okay, Busi and rest of the amigos are old and they can't run like when they were twenty, but we would never win CL playing like Valverde wanted us. We played defensive football with Barcelona's roster and he was using wrong players at Anfield. Valverde never knew how to build a strong team mentally. Alba crying at Anfield is a good example. What the hell are we crying? The game wasn't even lost at that point, far from it.

This team has collapsed for several reasons:

1. Lack of proper leaders (coach and player)
- Valverde wasn't strong enough leader. He let the players run the show. They didn't respect him. They could do whatever they want.
- Lack of leadership in players. Only real warrior playing for us is Vidal. Everyone else follows Messi and puts their head down when things are not going well. Maybe add Steigen to Vidal but that's about it.

2. Lack of improvement or system
- During these 2,5 years Valverdes players looked just as lost as they looked at first. There was no system build. The system was to hope Messi or Suarez to bail us out, but Suarez is too old for that especially in CL. Messi is still good enough to do that sometimes.

3. Players are too comfortable
- Players run the show. They show disrespect to their coach by talking they sleep four hours at night, cancel trainings because of rain etc etc. This wasn't run like a football club but a daycare center. Players made sure of that. I am sure players loved Valverde because they could do whatever they want.. Setien is showing some balls so they are fighting back,because someone messed up their comfort zone of not pushing themselves anymore.

4. Management (Bartomeu) and player development
- Our last player purchases, especially big ones show big lack of long-term planning. We are not planning long-term. We are just hoping to hit a lottery ticket. That's not how you build a complete and steady team. Also the lack of developing own juniors is biting our own ass. Roberto was the last breakthrough and even he is mediocre.. We must do better than that!! Follow Dortmund, Liverpool whatever..

5. Lack of standards!
- We used to demand the best. We used to demand the best effort. Now players are happy if they win a game. We should be aiming to win games 6-0 and win in style. Fans are spoiled? Probably yes but we demand certain attitude from our players and now we hear shit like this from Alba "fans are spoiled and they expect too much" Well then he is probably playing for the wrong club. Go back to Valencia if you want to be happy winning Copa Del Rey. This is Barca and we see ourselves as one of the best teams in the world! Our standards should be very very high.

6. Finding bullshit reasons for losses
- It is what it is. The famous quote. The last few years hasn't been bad luck, our amigos got worse.. they focused more on sipping Sangria than playing football, which is their job. We have been the laughing stock in CL for years, not just Roma and Liverpool but Juventus away and PSG.. We saw symptoms long time ago but we didn't react and try to fix them. "Suarez is world class" Yeah maybe five years ago. He is good for LaLiga, not even that anymore I think. Definitely not CL.


So it's not all Valverde. It's all combined from management, manager, players and heck Socios who accept bad level of play as long as they win LaLiga(vs poorly performing Madrid's). We need to demand better from everyone involved!

Setien is doing the job Valverde should have done long time ago. Put the players back to work!

 

[TANGA NIO]

There's so much wrong about this comment I don't even know where to begin . When you name a manager, you do your research and if you name him, you give him the authority of his rank. There is no job in the world that comes with only objectives, but no tools to reach those objectives. The only tool a manager has is the authority of his position in the team. He outranks any player. The manager is the head of the team.

It is the professional obligation of the players to implement the vision of the manager. And if that vision doesn't work, the manager will be evaluated by those who hired him, i.e. the board. And fired if they decide he has failed to reach expectations. What you write there is a toxic way of viewing things for any football club.

You're basically encouraging a club ran by what the players want and feel like. I'm even surprised you're not proposing to not name a manager at all. After all, the players know best what they can do or what they can't do. Just let them manage themselves. Pique, Messi, Suarez, they should set when they train and when they relax, and they should run the team basically. Which is sort of what happened during Valverde probably.

There is so much wrong about this comment, you actually believe that manager or coach run the show ? Management will always favor the players want. Managers doesn't sell shoes,shirts and why people watching the game it's the players. Kobe and LeBron are a good example how they will show and act if they dislike the coach tactics. Messi too with Lucho's first year, there is a reason people called him lil dictator 😂
If you want Setien more than the players, sell them even Messi, not just name players you dislike and let Messi stay. He's part and leader of the Amigos, but you know I know and every one know this is FC Messi and you guys are not ready to see Barca i Europa League

 

[jairzinho]

A question:
If Setien will lose against Napoli, how will you rate that defeat:
The same as Roma/Liverpool?
Less bad since he didn't lose 3:0 advantage?
More bad because we lost in 1/8 stage against a no name team?

I have a feeling that losing to a best team in the world (Liverpool) will still be worse than a possible exit to a mighty Napoli, right?

Or imagine: losing to Napoli and losing La Liga.
Will EV still be worse and a cancer?

Faulire is something that if you leave unchecked can become a habit or part of the culture.

Rome, Anfield, Seville, Saudi Arabia. Every major cup game that we have played in has been an abject failure.

That is without doubt a clear pattern and at any elite club, a line has to be drawn by those in charge.

EV seems like a nice chap but he had to be removed immediately.

Many of the entitled amigos may have to leave aswell over a period.

Perhaps it is a bit disappointing to some of them that partying after humiliations will not be permitted.

As well as constant vacations and light training.


I think we are getting ahead of ourselves with suppositions that Setien will lose here or there against Napoli or whomever.

He has only been here three weeks and although he is not the ideal candidate to some, he is the coach now and should be given

the benefit to do the job and implement his ideas.

If his methods fail over a period of time, he will be judged accordingly.

 

[evilhita666]

I mean, we didn't score against 11 men for 2 La liga matches in a row, we could have conceded 5-6 goals, almost lost to Ibiza, defense is a joke, we have no wingers, attack is chaotic and half of a team play out of position.

Those were exactly the same issues we were having under EV...

 

[JohnN]

If any these "rumors" have any truth I am done with this club until Barto and his marketing tools / players are gone.

 

[BBZ8800]

[MENTION=16041]FinBarcelonafan[/MENTION]

But look at it in this way: imagine that you have 11 Busquets in a team.

In 2011, they could run to some extent, pass, press, dominate.

In 2015, it was at 80% since he got old.

In 2019 those 11 Busquets are at 50% of their previous pace, stamina, pressing, defending.

Now, if you were a coach of those 11 Busquets' in 2020:
1. Would you ask them to play and run as in 2011?
2. Or would you adjust a game according to their current strengths, and play a lower intensity football, which is not good enough for a CL, but still good enough for La Liga?

What if EV was actually smart, if he has identified our flaws and decided (together with players) that Eernieball is the only way to squeeze 3-4 more La ligas from this dying team?

Then you will say: if players are old or bad, why didn't he replace them with younger ones?
= because new signings were Dumbele, Cou, Griezz, Semedo and kids like average Alena, Munir, Deulofeu and Riki
So, the only options were:
1. Play a low intensity, granny football with amigos and win 2-3 more La ligas in a smart way
2. Play with youngsters and end as 4th in La liga
3. Or try to replicate Pep's football in intensity with old grannies, misfits (Dembe, Cou, Griezz) and bad La Masia kids

What you guys on a forum want is=a good play, running and CL results.
What if those are more or less impossible with these team and EV actually has played safe and logical way, since he knew limitations of our old players.

And then, if this is true, imagine if Setien came with unrealistic ideas (you will run at 120%) and imploying some extremely weird tactics since he doesn't have any top level experience?

I know, we are complacent, amigos are old, we can't run, we don't have leaders.

But are you 100% sure that is impossible that Setien is totally lost and out of his depth in coaching superstars and declined players?

Have you never seen similar cases that players turn their backs to a coach if his ideas are questionable and results are bad?

You will now say: let's give him time, we don't need titles, blah blah.
Well, Messi obviously want La Liga title and thinks that we can win it. But he thinks that a coach is doing everything wrong and that there is no way to win anything that way.
You will now say: Ev was the same.
EV won 2 La ligas and was still on top in this season, so in this moment, EV and Setien are not the same.

Further, a question to consider: what if we will lose all titles this season under Setien with horrible, chaotic tactics and if players, fans and media start to fight with eachother, and if situation becomes were bad and painful and if Messi decides: that's it, I am done and if he leaves a club at the end of a season (which he can do).

Imagine that twist:
1. People were attacking EV for everything, calling him retardo and a cancer, and drinking champagne when he was sacked
2. Imagine that his sub loses all titles, brings zero improvements and causes Messi to leave a club, lol

Just saying. It isn't THAT impossible.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Valverde got rightfully sacked, let's just leave it at that. The season was already looking like it's going bad when he got fired, that's why a board that kept him despite two gigantic CL disappointments decided to replace him mid season.

 

[Raketa10]

Well it was obvious from the start that he is not the right man for this job. Setien has no authority whatsoever. FFS dude plays rondo with players, acts like he is their fan and tries to be their friend. This went wrong from the start. I don't care about this season since it's obvious we won't win anything. What worries me the most is the fact that this team is done and I sincerely can't see why would anyone sane take over in summer. Until we get rid of this board and our seniors every single manager will end up like Setien. First thing that our new board and new manager will have to do in 2021 is clear the locker room because clearly there are players in this team who should be thrown out of the door.

We have to admit to ourselves that there is also a "Messi problem". Yes he is THE GOAT but we should prepare for the life after him and we are clearly not doing that. Let's say he plays until WC 2022 that's basically 2 more years or 3 if he continues until 2023. If we don't change our approach this club will be dead and done until than and it will take a decade to rebuild. This summer is our last chance to start getting things in order. We should get rid of all our seniors except Messi (Pique, Busi, Vidal, Rakitic, Alba, Suarez) and we should start to rebuild by buying players we need and not BIG names! Use final years of Messi to make a transition and not for burning this club alive by fulfilling his every wish. Messi is the greatest ever but Barca is bigger than Messi and club needs to make some seriously hard decisions this summer or we'll end up like AC Milan or Chicago Bulls after Jordan left.

If Messi doesn't agree with that and wants Suarez or Busi here than tell him he can leave together with them. Yes he is a giant but Barca is bigger than anyone. We all know it's hard to part ways with the best ever but well being of this club has to be above everyone regardless how much that person contributed to this club. Ronaldinho was the one who revived this club after a long term crisis but Pep was ruthless back then and he made the right decision and now it's time to show balls once again. Messi is almost 33 years old and he has to understand he can't do everything by himself anymore. FFS he acts like a sheriff on the pitch, during every single attack ball has to go through him, he doesn't defend at all and every single free kick has to be his. Well this is not the right way to elevate your teammates. This reminds me of some NBA players who though that if they score 60 their team would end up wining titles. But this is not how things work. For winning trophies you need teammates and not 10 mummies alongside you on the field.

Some will say yes but he is THE GOAT and by far our best player and we can't win shit without him and I agree but THAT'S EXACTLY WHERE OUR PROBLEM BEGINS. At the moment no one can say what position Messi actually plays since he plays wherever he wants, he runs when he wants and gets the ball whenever he wants. This is a team sport and not "one man show" regardless of the fact he is the greatest ever. He needs to understand he needs a manager and teammates who will help him win. He needs to understand he needs their support as much as they need his. He also needs to understand that FC Barca is not FC Messi and 10 idiots but a team which consists of 11 great players out of whom he is the best. In the end there is no win without a hard work and this team together with Messi has no intentions at all to work hard on the pitch anymore. If there is anyone who thinks different, anyone who thinks Messi can win titles by acting like this I dare him to show me some examples in history where a single person in a team sport single-handedly won anything significant. There is literally none. Even MJ and Kobe knew they need to be the best in the team and not one man show.

I am truly sorry that elections are not this year since Barto would lose for sure and it would be the exact right moment to make the cut. Until next year things could get much uglier if we don't act fast. In the end I will repeat once again that until we get rid of our seniors EVERY SINGLE MANAGER regardless of his quality will end up like Setien and that's a fact.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

[MENTION=16041]FinBarcelonafan[/MENTION]

But look at it in this way: imagine that you have 11 Busquets in a team.

In 2011, they could run to some extent, pass, press, dominate.

In 2015, it was at 80% since he got old.

In 2019 those 11 Busquets are at 50% of their previous pace, stamina, pressing, defending.

Now, if you were a coach of those 11 Busquets' in 2020:
1. Would you ask them to play and run as in 2011?
2. Or would you adjust a game according to their current strengths, and play a lower intensity football, which is not good enough for a CL, but still good enough for La Liga?

What if EV was actually smart, if he has identified our flaws and decided (together with players) that Eernieball is the only way to squeeze 3-4 more La ligas from this dying team?

Then you will say: if players are old or bad, why didn't he replace them with younger ones?
= because new signings were Dumbele, Cou, Griezz, Semedo and kids like average Alena, Munir, Deulofeu and Riki
So, the only options were:
1. Play a low intensity, granny football with amigos and win 2-3 more La ligas in a smart way
2. Play with youngsters and end as 4th in La liga
3. Or try to replicate Pep's football in intensity with old grannies, misfits (Dembe, Cou, Griezz) and bad La Masia kids

What you guys on a forum want is=a good play, running and CL results.
What if those are more or less impossible with these team and EV actually has played safe and logical way, since he knew limitations of our old players.

And then, if this is true, imagine if Setien came with unrealistic ideas (you will run at 120%) and imploying some extremely weird tactics since he doesn't have any top level experience?

I know, we are complacent, amigos are old, we can't run, we don't have leaders.

But are you 100% sure that is impossible that Setien is totally lost and out of his depth in coaching superstars and declined players?

Have you never seen similar cases that players turn their backs to a coach if his ideas are questionable and results are bad?

You will now say: let's give him time, we don't need titles, blah blah.
Well, Messi obviously want La Liga title and thinks that we can win it. But he thinks that a coach is doing everything wrong and that there is no way to win anything that way.
You will now say: Ev was the same.
EV won 2 La ligas and was still on top in this season, so in this moment, EV and Setien are not the same.

Further, a question to consider: what if we will lose all titles this season under Setien with horrible, chaotic tactics and if players, fans and media start to fight with eachother, and if situation becomes were bad and painful and if Messi decides: that's it, I am done and if he leaves a club at the end of a season (which he can do).

Imagine that twist:
1. People were attacking EV for everything, calling him retardo and a cancer, and drinking champagne when he was sacked
2. Imagine that his sub loses all titles, brings zero improvements and causes Messi to leave a club, lol

Just saying. It isn't THAT impossible.

Messi is too much of an amigo to leave. Yes you have a good point. I believe what you said is true. This is what we can get out of this team. This team just isn't good enough. We need to throw out older players. That's only way we can become good again. If it takes one total failure season to happen, so be it.. at least it's wake up time for theanagement, socios and the players.

 

[Kul_z]

Lmao to that insider news that players do not understand what setien wants. We had similar situation in january when enrique was in charge after the sociedad defeat.
But then we had xavi in dressing room who could tell those spoiled divas what they needed to hear, with nothing to hold back against anyone, including messi.

They exactly know what setien wants from them, but they became lazy cockroaches under ev and that cant change over night.

Setien could be a quality coach, but he doesnt have authority over older guard. Even klopp would struggle, only xavi or pep could do something in terms of motivation and slapping them without those divas turning back on them.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Lmao to that insider news that players do not understand what setien wants. We had similar situation in january when enrique was in charge after the sociedad defeat.
But then we had xavi in dressing room who could tell those spoiled divas what they needed to hear, with nothing to hold back against anyone, including messi.

They exactly know what setien wants from them, but they became lazy cockroaches under ev and that cant change over night.

Setien could be a quality coach, but he doesnt have authority over older guard. Even klopp would struggle, only xavi or pep could do something in terms of motivation and slapping them without those divas turning back on them.

Xavi would have problem as well. He is their friend. It's tough to take your friends so seriously. It would hurt him.

 

[Kul_z]

Xavi would have problem as well. He is their friend. It's tough to take your friends so seriously. It would hurt him.

Xavi is authority, when he talks they listen. But thats my opinion

 

[Raketa10]

Xavi is authority, when he talks they listen. But thats my opinion

No one has authority over Messi or Pique or Busi or Suarez these days. They would destroy him within months. His decision not to take over until they retire was the smartest move he could have done at the moment. Manager must have the biggest authority in the locker room and that's virtually impossible with our current squad. Not even Pep would be able to establish order right now.

If we want to squeeze anything left from this old squad we'll need the biggest motivation expert ever. Any manager who is a pure tactician would fail, this team can't be disciplined anymore. The only way to deal with this bunch of lazy motherfuckers is by trying to motivate them for one final run but I honestly can't see who that person could be. If you ask me maybe Komenan (a Barca legend with strong character) is the answer for summer but on the other side maybe he would also fail miserably. There are no guarantees at the moment, we can just try but I honestly can't see why would anyone think that Setien is the solution. How the fuck can a mid table no name manager motivate Messi or Pique to give their maximum against Valencia?! We made a horrible mistake once again and that was obvious from the start.