Quique Setien

[Batistuta9]

Where do you think Klopp or Pep would play Messi as he is at moment?

I dont think they would want to sign him in all honesty.

Messi never was a great presser even under pep. Difference was, we had a solid well oiled team, that was capable of winning without Messi. He was just the icing on the cake. I know he isn't in his prime anymore but he could definitely still do a similar role at city and LFC. There still isn't a player that has more quality on the ball than messi

 

[henias]

That's the only way. 3 high workrate players behind Messi, Messi + 2 elite forwards.

Impossible to build that team. Messi would be at his best in a Milan, Kaka version. As Kaka. Feeding balls to 2 world class forwards + to a possible 3rd threat coming from behind like Seedorf.

Gatusso - Pirlo - Seedorf

Messi

Shevchenko - Crespo.

Again, don't try crazy ideas first. Build a legit proper team before coming into any conclusion.

 

[JamDav1982]

Messi never was a great presser even under pep. Difference was, we had a solid well oiled to team, that was capable of winning without Messi. He was just the icing on the cake. I know he isn't in his prime anymore but he could definitely still do a similar role at city and LFC. There still isn't a player that has more quality on the ball than messi

Messi moved off ball more then as he did when Lucho had him RW and Barca were best in world on break.

Also Xavi and Iniesta took the ball away from teams and allowed game to be more on Barcas hands in Peps time while teams cottoned on a bit to the false nine idea.

Those players are not there and football has moved on a bit anyway.

I dont believe Pep or Klopp give up so much of what their teams are about for current Messi and his age.

 

[Richard.H]

Messi never was a great presser even under pep. Difference was, we had a solid well oiled team, that was capable of winning without Messi. He was just the icing on the cake. I know he isn't in his prime anymore but he could definitely still do a similar role at city and LFC. There still isn't a player that has more quality on the ball than messi

Messi covered a lot more km’s pre 2013. With the tactical fluidity needed for peps style, you couldn’t stand around so much

 

[snowy]

Bayern model and Messi model are like oil and water. You either have one or the other. At this point in time, Messi needs the team to be built after him. And for a well functioning side, it is not something to be desired.

Why would Bayern or Liverpool even want Messi? They have something much better than old Messi.

see that's a flawed argument because your premise "Messi needs the team to be built after him" is wrong. This team for instance has been sucking the life out of him. If you only have 1 creative player servicing target men who can only finish their dinner plates, why focus the blame on Messi? lol

We're so predictable, teams just need to surround and try to shut down that NEO dude.

Put him in any team where there's multiple channels of attack, fast creative players who can rain havoc by themselves yet are able to work as a unit (Think Bulls 2nd 3-peat), interchange positions, triangle plays, quick passes and all, and I guarantee you Messi would get mega-assists, pre-assists and goals stats but more importantly to him, Barca would get the trophies.
No wonder he's been playing better and looks happier when Puig on Fati are on.

 

[serghei]

Again, don't try crazy ideas first. Build a legit proper team before coming into any conclusion.

Crazy idea? Only 2 teams were great using a no10 in the last 15 years or so. Madrid with Benzema and Ronaldo as strikers and Isco as the tip of the diamond in 2017. And Milan during Kaka in 2005-2007.

 

[Batistuta9]

Messi moved off ball more then as he did when Lucho had him RW and Barca were best in world on break.

Also Xavi and Iniesta took the ball away from teams and allowed game to be more on Barcas hands in Peps time while teams cottoned on a bit to the false nine idea.

Those players are not there and football has moved on a bit anyway.

I dont believe Pep or Klopp give up so much of what their teams are about for current Messi and his age.

I'm not saying they would give up what they have for Messi, it doesn't make sense to do that for a 33 year old. I'm saying if he was already a part of their squad they would find a way for him to be useful. He has his flaws but his qualities are rare in football.

I've heard city and LFC fans being driven crazy by Salah and Mahrez. Salah even missed 3 sitters today when they drew 1-1.

You might lose some work ethic, but you would gain so much more quality

 

[henias]

Crazy idea? Only 2 teams were great using a no10 in the last 15 years or so. Madrid with Benzema and Ronaldo as strikers and Isco as the tip of the diamond in 2017. And Milan during Kaka in 2005-2007.

So don't use that. Even Madrid had proper strikers to test that out, yet we have griezmann. And we havent even test out anything else yet to say that thats our only option.

 

[soul24rage]

That's the only way. 3 high workrate players behind Messi, Messi + 2 elite forwards.

Impossible to build that team. Messi would be at his best in a Milan, Kaka version. As Kaka. Feeding balls to 2 world class forwards + to a possible 3rd threat coming from behind like Seedorf.

Gatusso - Pirlo - Seedorf

Messi

Shevchenko - Crespo.

Of the current squad right now, I think maybe this could work

Vidal/Bob, DJ, Puig---Messi---Griezmann, Fati

Not saying that this will win the CL or anything, but I think this could be the best team that we could field with our current personnel.

Much better than the team that we saw today in the 2nd half.

 

[snowy]

That's the reason why I've wanted Barca to sign Camavinga. Him along with de Jong would be so good.

Dynamic Duo this one!

That would make for riveting football. But Rennes is adamant on keeping him till at least 2022. The Pinault family, the owners adore him so does Julien Stephan. L'Equipe even cited Olivier Letang's negociations with Real Madrid being the reason for his firing...

 

[khaled_a_d]

I think switching Messi with say someone like Sancho (just an example) would change how the team looks. We'd lose the genius actions Messi brings, but we'd gain in other areas which are very important. Work rate, pressing, defensive coverage, movement. All things we can all agree we suck at (Messi and Suarez are the main culprits in these areas).

We won't switch Messi for one player and succeed, that won't happen. He is still our top goal scorer and creator.
There will be a need to replace so many players in both midfield and defense, attack too most likely.

We are unlikely to produce a team that is elite and true CL candidate with him being a tactical burden, but we surely can win the league with him which is huge success during a retooling phase. Despite the fact that our fans has some shitty attitude toward winning domestically and has been taking it for granted.


Right now, who beside Messi need replacement?
Old players: Pique (despite being good), Alba (despite being hard to replace) , Busquets, Raki, Vidal & Suarez. All those players are on decline for few years (except Alba),
Dembele too as he is too injury prone.


If we can have next year with a young CB that can replace Pique, Young midfielder beside FDJ and Pjanic, add an attacker to fill one of the two positions beside Messi, we will then have enough tools to compete for a strong Liga campaign.
Next year add couple of more pieces and we are even better.

When the time comes and we need to replace Messi, we will be one/two piece away from achieving that.

The main problem, is that we have actually started retooling in 2017 and we are just failing in adding the right pieces. Arthur, Coutinho,Griezmann, Dembele,Malcom all failed for whatever reasons. Lautaro could be another name to add to the list. Umtiti injury fucked us badly

I like Trincao/Pedri/Puig/Fati/Moriba. But history suggest that we might be up for a dissapointment.

TLDR: We need to replace the old core while Messi is here, that won't achieve an elite team status but will be good enough for Liga, which is fine atm

 

[Porque]

There is the 4312 Villarreal aswell which almost reached a CL final. Messi doing his best Riquelme impersonation.

Looking back at that lineup, it is amazing they went on such a run. Not alot of quality outside of Senna, Riquelme, Forlan and maybe Arruabarrena.

 

[Mitchell1978]

Messi hasn't been at his best, anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves. But to say he has been average is very harsh. 20+ goals and 20+ assists would be a career season for a lot of world class players. Can you name another player that would get the same numbers as him, playing the same role in this crappy team?

Why are you debating someone who clearly has an agenda against/is full of prejudice against Messi?
Has been like this for years from him, even last season when Messi had one of his greatest seasons ever he could only be negative.

I can only pity him for not be able to appreciate probably the greatest player ever.

 

[JohnN]

I keep hearing football has evolved and it's all about athleticism now etc.. people forget it was like that in Barca's prime too, but we were an exception. Real Madrid, athletico, Bayern, were all like that this past decade. English clubs have been like that for over 20 years.
The fact that technical gems like xavi and ineata are non existent currently, doesn't mean they would be obsolete now. What is a trend today is old news tomorrow, but our style remained on top for a decade, even though out quality declined.
This teams needs new personnel for sure, but this is for 2021 onwards. Now is not the to e, with this board.
We have remained competitive but time caught up.
Also, it's kind of unfair to judge a team with known stamina issues, that plays a game every 3 days so harshly. Of course the football level is not going to be great.

 

[Batistuta9]

Why are you debating someone who clearly has an agenda against/is full of prejudice against Messi?
Has been like this for years from him, even last season when Messi had one of his greatest seasons ever he could only be negative.

I can only pity him for not be able to appreciate probably the greatest player ever.

I can see from his posts that he definitely does have something against Messi, even if he doesn't want to admit it.

I was just trying to explain to him that there is a reason why he has 20+ goals and assists this season. This team is finished. The Barca players know giving the ball to Messi is the best chance they have to create and score a goal.

Doesn't really make sense though, being a Barca fan and not liking messi