Quique Setien

[El Gato]

�� We know you're pining for the return of the great saboteur Dickverde. It ain't going to happen.

How are your English classes going BTW. Found out the differences between stamina, endurance and longevity yet?

 

[Messigician]

Xavi: "Barça's offer? I did not accept it, because it's too early to train them but it will remain my dream to be a Barça coach in the future."

Translation, am am waiting for a new board because u hate Barto, also I will bring Puyol along once Font is elected

 

[BBZ8800]

The team's cojones died in anfield and they would never grow back with EV here.

Our team's cojones didn't die on Anfield but in a 2011/2012 season when complacency kicked in.

After 2012, except for 6 Months in early 2015, our European adventure was a pure trash.
An autopilot team with no hunger, who is saved by Messi, but who is losing every year by any semi decent CL team.

2013 Bayern
2014 Atletico
2016 Atletico
2017 Psg, Juve
2018 Roma
2019 Liverpool

Our spirit, motivation and cojones died looong, looong ago.
Roma and Anfield are just a ship sinking way lower due to circumstances around the club in the last 10 years.

Your post sounded as if we actually had any cojones in Europe pre-Valverde.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Fair.
So, can we say this way:
Since a crappy EV managed to have 93, 90 and 40 points, that means that over a half season he had on average:
46,5 points
46,5 points
45 points
45 points
40 points

So, you asked for EV's average over 19 rounds.
EV's average over 5 seasons was 44,6 points over 19 rounds.
Also, if someone will reply: but the first half season is the toughest.
EV had 16 wins and 3 draws in his first half season, which means 51 points.

Now, if we want managers to be judged in a same way:
1. If Setien will win less points than EV, who was the worst coach in the world, then Setien will be the new worst coach in the world
2. If Setien will win similar amount of points as EV (44,6 per half season), they will be tied as the two worst managers in a history
3. If Setien will win more points than EV, Setien is clearly very good

Since I can travel through time and see a future, be sure that Setien will win less than 44,6 points in this half season.
So, you guys should prepare your mental gymnastics and excuses according to those numbers.

I mean, let's be fair:
EV had 90 points seasons on average
He won 2 La Ligas
He had Messi

There is absolutely no reason to expect less from Setien or to give him a free pass for less.
Afterall, the bar was set quite low.
All Setien has to do: to be slightly better than a worst coach in a history.

I mean, everyone could do that.

So, if we want to compare Setien:
1. With the worst version of EV (this season), Setien needs 40+ points
2. If we will compare him with EV in total, he will need 44,6 points per halfseason

So, let's say that we can't influence RM's points.
So, let's just concentrate on our number of points.

You have to take in account quality of competition. How many away matches.. I think we've had easier schedule than Real for example.

 

[devo901]

Fair.
So, can we say this way:
Since a crappy EV managed to have 93, 90 and 40 points, that means that over a half season he had on average:
46,5 points
46,5 points
45 points
45 points
40 points

So, you asked for EV's average over 19 rounds.
EV's average over 5 seasons was 44,6 points over 19 rounds.
Also, if someone will reply: but the first half season is the toughest.
EV had 16 wins and 3 draws in his first half season, which means 51 points.

Now, if we want managers to be judged in a same way:
1. If Setien will win less points than EV, who was the worst coach in the world, then Setien will be the new worst coach in the world
2. If Setien will win similar amount of points as EV (44,6 per half season), they will be tied as the two worst managers in a history
3. If Setien will win more points than EV, Setien is clearly very good

Since I can travel through time and see a future, be sure that Setien will win less than 44,6 points in this half season.
So, you guys should prepare your mental gymnastics and excuses according to those numbers.

I mean, let's be fair:
EV had 90 points seasons on average
He won 2 La Ligas
He had Messi

There is absolutely no reason to expect less from Setien or to give him a free pass for less.
Afterall, the bar was set quite low.
All Setien has to do: to be slightly better than a worst coach in a history.

I mean, everyone could do that.

So, if we want to compare Setien:
1. With the worst version of EV (this season), Setien needs 40+ points
2. If we will compare him with EV in total, he will need 44,6 points per halfseason

So, let's say that we can't influence RM's points.
So, let's just concentrate on our number of points.

If we compare 2 trainers we can only do this in the exact same environment, that we dont have. Now we have to deal with 3 years time difference. Given that the core team (Messi,Suarez, both where 30, Pique, Busquets, Raki, Alba, ... around 28-29) now they are still playing, but 3 years older, I think this makes a difference that should not be neglected when comparing EV's and QS's first seasons....

However, 40 points in 19 games, in the second half of this season, should be a yardstick for Setien. 44, I do not agree.

Mindgame... As the career of a football player lasts roughly 15 years, 3 years, is a ~1/5th of his carreer. Now, 1/5 of our life span (~80) would be 16 years. You do not expect that your wife looks as good with 30 as she does with 46, do you? ;-)

 

[LeeRomeno]

Problem is, these EV apologists aren't going to go away once we get going under Setien. ANYTIME we lose ANY points, they are going to come crawling out of their caves, trying to a pull a "I told you so" move on us, and that thought is just tiring. Most of us are going to judge Setien objectively - that means giving him some time, and calling things as they are. But when you choose to have Valverde's dick in your pie hole at ALL times, it's really jarring. Seriously guys, I plead you - get as much of Valverde worship you want out of your system now, and please spare us the shithousery later.

It is really amazing how polarized the world has become in recent years and in a twisted way, the liberal vs conservative agenda, that blames others for all sins in the world has transformed into pro and anti Valverde arguments in context of Barcelona football club. I do not know who qualifies under EV apologist, but I am pretty sure there is a very big fangroup, who was okey with Valverde in the beginning, but after Anfield wanted change as well. So are they EV apologists or not? For example myself, I was totally content with him, but after Anfield it was pretty obvious the same pattern will continue this year as well, so there was no point in keeping him any further. But for some reason this type of attitude is not common at all. You ever blame him for all the sins mock and hate him (aka naming him Retardo in fanforum) or then blindly defend him no matter what (like a few people here still do). Problems Barcelone has, with board, coach, players aging etc all combine and end up with results, narrowing all that hate down to just 1 thing makes no sense. I was not happy how Valverde got sacked, should have been done sooner, its really a disgrace from board, does not mean I am not excited to see how Setien will do, i love this club and i want it to succeed, why cannot that be the story here, instead of hate and blame.
What is worse, as you described, under Setien, this division will not dissappear, once again everyone has to divide into distinct groups and just spread hatred instead of just enjoying and watching how it will happen.

 

[LeeRomeno]

If there's one thing I actually expect.

Is the Ground we cover in terms of km will go back up. Instead of us being embarrassingly outrun by a shitload by every team we face. Obviously we shouldn't expect Messi to be pulling trees but the others will probably be doing all the movement to help limit some of Leo's flaws with Workrate.

I remember that during Peps squad, we almost always ran alot less than opponents, think Pep even mentioned it in some interview, that having the ball and spreading it around means opponents have to waste more time and energy chasing the ball, which means our players will be more fresh entire game. So running around just to get more KM is very pointless KPI to observe, what is different from Peps and current squad is that during Pep our players actually managed to press high and with correct intensity all game, while now, it only happens periodically and our possession is more in our own half vs opponent half like it used to be, which then again means it is less dangerous. But ran kilometres is vanity metric and does not mean anything. If anything you should observe how players in various positions run.

 

[hamoon32]

As a casual football supporter, i'm curious, what are the downsides to training with higher intensity and less off-days? There are successful coaches who are known for taking an easy approach. Obviously not all of them are idiots.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

As a casual football supporter, i'm curious, what are the downsides to training with higher intensity and less off-days? There are successful coaches who are known for taking an easy approach. Obviously not all of them are idiots.

I think we can all agree that whatever Valverdes approach was it wasn't working. Especially to his physical preparation..

Very happy to see the team working hard!

 

[Judoman]

Our team's cojones didn't die on Anfield but in a 2011/2012 season when complacency kicked in.

After 2012, except for 6 Months in early 2015, our European adventure was a pure trash.
An autopilot team with no hunger, who is saved by Messi, but who is losing every year by any semi decent CL team.

2013 Bayern
2014 Atletico
2016 Atletico
2017 Psg, Juve
2018 Roma
2019 Liverpool

Our spirit, motivation and cojones died looong, looong ago.
Roma and Anfield are just a ship sinking way lower due to circumstances around the club in the last 10 years.

Your post sounded as if we actually had any cojones in Europe pre-Valverde.

Semi decent teams end up playing the CL finals?

As usual, you are way over pessimistic.

 

[BBZ8800]

Also regarding whats "fair" and what isn't, Setien doesn't have a pre-season. His pre-season is what we see right now with daily sessions for about one week, what according to some users here already is a mistake lol. That alone makes his situation different to that of Valverde so if you want to have a real comparison you might even have to wait for next season.

You see, this kind of logic and bias is pissing me off.

So, now a poor new coach didn't have a preseason and his players.

But, we could say that in terms of names, we have a way better team today than in EV's first half season.
In a summer of 2017, we lost Neymar out of nowhere, remember how he suddenly left.
EV lost one if his key players, and we bought a fckng Dembele and missed out on Cou.
Dembele got forever injured in his 3rd match, as always, and EV's only options were Messi, Suarez and Deulofeu.
And of course that he couldn't rotate and had to burry them to the ground.

In midfield, EV had old Iniesta, Busi, Raki, Paulinho, Gomes and Denis.
Setien will have: Frenkie, Arthur, Busi, Vidal, Puig, Raki.
In attack, Setien will have Messi, injured Suarez, plus Griezmann, Dembele, Fati, Perez.

Setien has Firpo instead of Digne.
And Semedo who is not a rookie anymore.

So, cons for Setien=a team is two years older.
Pros over EV from 2017=better attack, better midfield, more balanced fullback pairs.

So, if we want to be fair=Setien didn't get a preseason, but he will get a better squad than EV's team from 2017.
One more time, a cancer EV won 16 out of 19 matches in La Liga with a goal advantage 52:9.
And 4 wins, 2 draws in a CL with 9:1 goals.
So, EV's first 6 Months with shitty attack and midfield:
25 matches, 20 wins, 5 draws
Goal difference 61:10.
But he never won hearts of fans due to a boring playing style.

My point: yes, there are surely some cons working against Setien (no preseason, no Suarez).
But honestly, EV had a way bigger problems and had an amazing start results wise and still got lebelled as the biggest cancer ever.

So, let's apply the same rules for a new coach and forget the excuses for everything.

 

[MTL_Barca]

As a casual football supporter, i'm curious, what are the downsides to training with higher intensity and less off-days? There are successful coaches who are known for taking an easy approach. Obviously not all of them are idiots.

During the season regeneration between games is very important, top teams often have to play every 3-4 days for weeks. So having too many sessions with high intensity can burn out the team quickly.

But for now that shouldn't be a concern, it's not like Setien forces them to run 50km a day and right now is the best opportunity to work with the team for a full week.

 

[MTL_Barca]

You see, this kind of logic and bias is pissing me off.

So, now a poor new coach didn't have a preseason and his players.

But, we could say that in terms of names, we have a way better team today than in EV's first half season.
In a summer of 2017, we lost Neymar out of nowhere, remember how he suddenly left.
EV lost one if his key players, and we bought a fckng Dembele and missed out on Cou.
Dembele got forever injured in his 3rd match, as always, and EV's only options were Messi, Suarez and Deulofeu.
And of course that he couldn't rotate and had to burry them to the ground.

In midfield, EV had old Iniesta, Busi, Raki, Paulinho, Gomes and Denis.
Setien will have: Frenkie, Arthur, Busi, Vidal, Puig, Raki.
In attack, Setien will have Messi, injured Suarez, plus Griezmann, Dembele, Fati, Perez.

Setien has Firpo instead of Digne.
And Semedo who is not a rookie anymore.

So, cons for Setien=a team is two years older.
Pros over EV from 2017=better attack, better midfield, more balanced fullback pairs.

So, if we want to be fair=Setien didn't get a preseason, but he will get a better squad than EV's team from 2017.
One more time, a cancer EV won 16 out of 19 matches in La Liga with a goal advantage 52:9.
And 4 wins, 2 draws in a CL with 9:1 goals.
So, EV's first 6 Months with shitty attack and midfield:
25 matches, 20 wins, 5 draws
Goal difference 61:10.
But he never won hearts of fans due to a boring playing style.

My point: yes, there are surely some cons working against Setien (no preseason, no Suarez).
But honestly, EV had a way bigger problems and had an amazing start results wise and still got lebelled as the biggest cancer ever.

So, let's apply the same rules for a new coach and forget the excuses for everything.

Funny you of all users is pissed off by bias I don't even have a reason to be biased. I' don't love Setien, i actually don't even know much about him. My priority is Barca and i'll just wait and see what Setien can do. I also didn't hate Valverde when he took over, but he did a good job changing my mind.

Setien is taking over in the middle of the season and therefore doesn't have the opportunity to work with the team during pre-season. Thats just a fact. No bias, no excuse. I mean what is there to argue? That's just how it is.

Squad quality is a whole other topic. One i didn't even touch on. That's exactly why i said we shouldn't judge a coach solely on something like points won because there are too many factors to take into account.

 

[BBZ8800]

Problem is, these EV apologists aren't going to go away once we get going under Setien. ANYTIME we lose ANY points, they are going to come crawling out of their caves, trying to a pull a "I told you so" move on us, and that thought is just tiring. Most of us are going to judge Setien objectively - that means giving him some time, and calling things as they are. But when you choose to have Valverde's dick in your pie hole at ALL times, it's really jarring. Seriously guys, I plead you - get as much of Valverde worship you want out of your system now, and please spare us the shithousery later.

Some of you literally posted 10 000 shitty posts 24/7 with:
1. Anyone would be better than Valverde
2. Not a single player has improved under EV
3. Player XX would fly under a proper coach not named EV
4. EV didn't win La Ligas, Messi did. ANY manager could do the same with Messi.
5. We have an amazing squad.

You are tired of posts about defending EV?
Do you think that it was fun to read 100s of nonsense posts daily for 2 years where EV was guilty for player's limitations, inability to run, a lack of a fighting spirit etc.

I personally wouldn't post these things if there weren't so many shit thrown around.
I mean, a topic was called Retardo.

As George Costanza said, every action has a reaction.
If we had to read 20 000 posts how EV was guilty for everything, OF COURSE that you will get back 20 000 posts with: I told you so, anyone would be better than Valverde, we have an amazing squad etc.

I mean, when I say that Arthur is shit, and when he plays a good game, I get at least 10 notifications with people calling my name, trolling me and saying I told you so.

That is a common practice here.
Why should we stop doing that if nonsense from the last two years prove to be wrong, esecially: if some players will be shit even under a new coach, if we still won't move, if we will still get outran etc.
And those things are imo 90% probable to happen quite soon.

You guys can't just throw shit, nonsense and exaggerration when it fits you.

When my theories are wrong, feel free to troll me.
But it works both ways.

So, in short: no, EV topic and EV comparisons isn't over and will stay here for a looong time.

 

[FCBarca]

Mid season replacements are often at a gross disadvantage due to not being able to really break in a squad to their ways of working, training etc. Expectations have to be tempered in that regard but we are not talking about a small club with mediocre talent or professionals, they will have memory of what they had done before and I am certain Setien & his staff is aware of that too. They've long been putting together a plan to improve the squad's fitness/sharpness in a manner considering the time constraints.

I say let the man & his staff work and let's show some patience on what we can hope to see. I suspect even this weekend we will be pleasantly surprised but I think it'll take a good 4-6 weeks before the team finds the necessary rhythm to deliver on Quique's ideas