Quique Setien

[serghei]

There could be tons of reasons if true.

1. Maybe amigos see that his tactics are a total nonsense and that he doesn't know what is he doing (for a top club level)
2. Maybe players discussed with Lucho and EV about tactics and maybe a coach and amigos knew about their strengths and weak areas and maybe a coach and players agreed on tactics together to some extent.
This could explain why all senior players liked EV. Maybe they really had the same views what should be done in this moment.

Setien, maybe he came and tried to install weird tactics and players think: this shit won't work with 33 year old players.
Or: these tactics don't work anymore, yet a coach doesn't understand it.

Offtopic: I have read an article about a Bosnian coach Osim.
Apparently in late 80s, Real Madrid wanted to hire him, but he declined.
He said: I couldn't take a job because I felt that RM players are too big for me.
I didn't know what to tell them and how to train them. Who am I to tell to Butrageno how to move and shoot?

Anyway, this coach Osim was honest.
He felt that he is not good enough for that level and that there is nothing what he can teach RM players.

Now, Messi and amigos had a lot of coaches in their careers.
What if they think that he is clueless and that his methods don't make sense?

People will reply: lol, they had EV. Nobody can't be worse than EV.
Or: Setien is smart, he plays chess.

Well, he didn't win a single title in his career or played a CL match.

Anyway, these are just some ideas about a story that players are turning a back to him.

We don't know how much influence players have in setting tactics...

There's so much wrong about this comment I don't even know where to begin . When you name a manager, you do your research and if you name him, you give him the authority of his rank. There is no job in the world that comes with only objectives, but no tools to reach those objectives. The only tool a manager has is the authority of his position in the team. He outranks any player. The manager is the head of the team.

It is the professional obligation of the players to implement the vision of the manager. And if that vision doesn't work, the manager will be evaluated by those who hired him, i.e. the board. And fired if they decide he has failed to reach expectations. What you write there is a toxic way of viewing things for any football club.

You're basically encouraging a club ran by what the players want and feel like. I'm even surprised you're not proposing to not name a manager at all. After all, the players know best what they can do or what they can't do. Just let them manage themselves. Pique, Messi, Suarez, they should set when they train and when they relax, and they should run the team basically. Which is sort of what happened during Valverde probably.

 

[KingLeo10]

There's so much wrong about this comment I don't even know where to begin . When you name a manager, you do your research and if you name him, you give him the authority of his rank. There is no job in the world that comes with only objectives, but no tools to reach those objectives. The only tool a manager has is the authority of his position in the team. He outranks any player. The manager is the head of the team.

It is the professional obligation of the players to implement the vision of the manager. And if that vision doesn't work, the manager will be evaluated by those who hired him, i.e. the board. And fired if they decide he has failed to reach expectations. What you write there is a toxic way of viewing things for any football club.

You're basically encouraging a club ran by what the players want and feel like. I'm even surprised you're not proposing to not name a manager at all. After all, the players know best what they can do or what they can't do. Just let them manage themselves. Pique, Messi, Suarez, they should set when they train and when they relax, and they should run the team basically. Which is sort of what happened during Valverde probably.

The player driven manager model BBZ is proposing is the equivalent of claiming Alexander, Caesar, and Hannibal (when they were yet unproven) should have marched in terms of strategy and tactics as their best (washed up) fighters outlined.

Just to show how absurd this is.

 

[serghei]

The player driven manager model BBZ is proposing is the equivalent of claiming Alexander, Caesar, and Hannibal (when they were yet unproven) should have marched in terms of strategy and tactics as their best (washed up) fighters outlined.

Just to show how absurd this is.

Yea, or that Barca veterans are better managers than Setien. How many games did the Barca players won as managers? None, because they are not managers . And because they are not managers, they aren't fit to evaluate the tactics a real manager asks them to implement.

Besides, if his tactics were that shit, he wouldn't have outplayed us on Camp Nou last year with a 10 times worse team, scoring 4 goals.

 

[Barcilliant]

Sport is reporting that dressing room is turning against Setien which I think is very possible. One more loss like this and and there will be complete chaos. What is Barto going to do? Fire Setien and hire who? We already know that no one wants to job and most likely no one will take the job at the end of the season. Everyone knows that Barca is toxic on every level, with uncertainty of upcoming elections and amigos.No self respecting coach will sign up for it.

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barca/vestuario-esceptico-con-metodo-setien-7822805

Has hardly been in the jon two weeks and the media already looking for him to be sacked. This is all on the seniors. They should be fucking put in their place. It's obvious they don't want to train hard or learn new things. That's why they loved Dickverde so much and stood by him after two cl humiliations.
If I were Setien I would square up to the seniors and management and give them an ultimatum. My way or the highway.
I hope Setien has the balls and integrity to walk away if the seniors give him shit. That would really expose the seniors for what they currently are. A fucking huge tumor that needs to be cut out.

 

[The Observer]

Yea, or that Barca veterans are better managers than Setien. How many games did the Barca players won as managers? None, because they are not managers . And because they are not managers, they aren't fit to evaluate the tactics a real manager asks them to implement.

Besides, if his tactics were that shit, he wouldn't have outplayed us on Camp Nou last year with a 10 times worse team, scoring 4 goals.

According to your very own words, literally the 100 point record season in 12/13.

 

[The Observer]

Or any other season for that matter.

I read multiple times for winning La Liga you don't need more than a lamp post on the sidelines + Messi.

 

[KingLeo10]

Or any other season for that matter.

I read multiple times for winning La Liga you don't need more than a lamp post on the sidelines + Messi.

We don't have that version of Messi anymore. Nor Iniesta, Alves, Xavi. Or even a prime Suarez/Neyney.

 

[mssarm]

Has hardly been in the jon two weeks and the media already looking for him to be sacked. This is all on the seniors. They should be fucking put in their place. It's obvious they don't want to train hard or learn new things. That's why they loved Dickverde so much and stood by him after two cl humiliations.
If I were Setien I would square up to the seniors and management and give them an ultimatum. My way or the highway.
I hope Setien has the balls and integrity to walk away if the seniors give him shit. That would really expose the seniors for what they currently are. A fucking huge tumor that needs to be cut out.

I don't think Setien has that much credit/power to go to ultimatum. Barca played without seniors in CDR and looked pretty shaky against 3rd tier team. It did not do any favors to Setien. At the end of the day Setien got the job because everyone else said no. The players know that and Setien knows that too. His leverage is not that big . Personally I'm not sure if he is going to cave in or play hard ass get himself fired at the end of the season. Personally I prefer second scenario because that might setup the domino effect for Barto-s downfall.

 

[evilhita666]

Has hardly been in the jon two weeks and the media already looking for him to be sacked. This is all on the seniors. They should be fucking put in their place. It's obvious they don't want to train hard or learn new things. That's why they loved Dickverde so much and stood by him after two cl humiliations.
If I were Setien I would square up to the seniors and management and give them an ultimatum. My way or the highway.
I hope Setien has the balls and integrity to walk away if the seniors give him shit. That would really expose the seniors for what they currently are. A fucking huge tumor that needs to be cut out.

Exactly! If they were to turn to a manager because of results they would have done it to Valverde... This is because seniors are lazy entitled assholes who think their past is enough to justify their place in the team...

On a semi related note, I've seen way more vitriol from the press towards Setién after three games than I ever saw towards Valverde in almost three seasons, hell, even when he was fired he was made out to be the victim...

I don't think Setien has that much credit/power to go to ultimatum. Barca played without seniors in CDR and looked pretty shaky against 3rd tier team. It did not do any favors to Setien. At the end of the day Setien got the job because everyone else said no. The players know that and Setien knows that too. His leverage is not that big . Personally I'm not sure if he is going to cave in or play hard ass get himself fired at the end of the season. Personally I prefer second scenario because that might setup the domino effect for Barto-s downfall.

He doesn't need an ultimatum, if he sees the team doesn't want to work his way he can quit, which as said before would expose the players for being entitled man-children... This would also be a huge blow for Bartomeow...

 

[BBZ8800]

It is the professional obligation of the players to implement the vision of the manager. And if that vision doesn't work, the manager will be evaluated by those who hired him, i.e. the board. And fired if they decide he has failed to reach expectations. What you write there is a toxic way of viewing things for any football club.

A coach is an authority only in formal way.
To earn respect in other 50%, he needs to win the players over either with his charisma, fame, knowledge...

I will pull an analogy.
Amigos think that they are the best in the world.
Now, let's look at our forum.
You Serghei, think that you have the best tactical knowledge here.
So, you are amigos in this analogy.

Now imagine that this forum is a job and that Barcaman (the owner or Barto) picks a coach/forum moderator Gasgas.
And Barcaman tells that we need to listen to Gasgas.
Gasgas will give general ideas about formations and lineups, and we, other users (employees or players) need to listen to coach Gasgas and apply his ideas.

Now, if Gasgas would post some weird lineup or tactics, would you (who consider yourself as a tactical Goat) follow those bad ideas or would you say: fuck this shit?

You see, Gas is only formally an authority.
In this case, he wouldn't earn your tactical respect with an amazing ideas.
(No offense dear Gas)

This is why, when appointing a coach, you can't bring anyone and tell to spoiled superstars: you need to follow him blindly.

This is why Zidane is good.
He gets respect because of who he is as a former player.
On the other hand, who the fuck is Setien?
A no name footballer.
A no name coach.
And then he throws some weird tactics from 1992.

Ok, the players are spoiled, but still...

Imagine in 20 years, who would get more respect as a coach: some random dude from a forum, Gumbau or let's say Xavi?

So, the players are spoiled, but it is what it is.
Then you need someone who knows his job and who will earn some respect.

Also, you guys see that as impossible, but what if:
Ev came and told Messi: you will play as a RW.
Messi said: no.
Ev then said: ok, where do you wanna play.

Then EV told to Alba, Suarez, Pique: you will play this way.
They replied: fuck off, lol.

Then, you can bench all of them and end 4th on a table.
Or accept "it is what it is", lose your spine, do what players want and still win some titles.

I mean, you know the story about Pique, EV and New York...

So, you have 2 solutions:
1. Do what amigos want and win some titles, but suck in a CL
2. Or bench amigos, play with Riki and Alena, end 5th on a table, lose money from sponsors, lose all titles and get angry fans and media

We are so deep into this, that there is no "happy ending" in this moment.

Now when you sum it all, I don't find it that hard to believe that amigos are against Setien:
1. Because he is either totally clueless and lost
2. Or because he wants to implement his ideas, which 32 years old players don't agree with like: formation, 3 at the back, physical training regimes which oldies can't do.

You act as if we live in a perfect world.
If my boss sucks, I will tell that.
Especially if I am a goat and can't get fired in any way (like in the case of amigos).
I won't be a hypocrite and I will say: if I were Pique or Messi and if I wouldn't like coaches ideas, I would openly say: this sucks, this is not a right direction.

And then again, it is not as if we have hired Klopp.
We hired a midtable coach who was fired from every job, lol.

So, this story is not that simple.
If you have spoiled amigos, then hire Bielsa or Mourinho.
You can't hire Unzue, Eusebio or Setien and expect respect from players who won 8-10 la ligas towards a guy who barely managed to finish in top10 places in la liga.

As always, we suck on so many levels.
This Titanic has 100s of problems and they won't go away with EV, Raki, Setien or in 1-2 summers.

 

[Barcilliant]

I am telling you Napoli are going to dump us out of CL. Setien has no experience in cl, players are lazy fucks who have no intensity. We have all the ingredients here for a massive humiliation.... the third in a row.

 

[Messigician]

A coach is an authority only in formal way.
To earn respect in other 50%, he needs to win the players over either with his charisma, fame, knowledge...

I will pull an analogy.
Amigos think that they are the best in the world.
Now, let's look at our forum.
You Serghei, think that you have the best tactical knowledge here.
So, you are amigos in this analogy.

Now imagine that this forum is a job and that Barcaman (the owner or Barto) picks a coach/forum moderator Gasgas.
And Barcaman tells that we need to listen to Gasgas.
Gasgas will give general ideas about formations and lineups, and we, other users (employees or players) need to listen to coach Gasgas and apply his ideas.

Now, if Gasgas would post some weird lineup or tactics, would you (who consider yourself as a tactical Goat) follow those bad ideas or would you say: fuck this shit?

You see, Gas is only formally an authority.
In this case, he wouldn't earn your tactical respect with an amazing ideas.
(No offense dear Gas)

This is why, when appointing a coach, you can't bring anyone and tell to spoiled superstars: you need to follow him blindly.

This is why Zidane is good.
He gets respect because of who he is as a former player.
On the other hand, who the fuck is Setien?
A no name footballer.
A no name coach.
And then he throws some weird tactics from 1992.

Ok, the players are spoiled, but still...

Imagine in 20 years, who would get more respect as a coach: some random dude from a forum, Gumbau or let's say Xavi?

So, the players are spoiled, but it is what it is.
Then you need someone who knows his job and who will earn some respect.

Also, you guys see that as impossible, but what if:
Ev came and told Messi: you will play as a RW.
Messi said: no.
Ev then said: ok, where do you wanna play.

Then EV told to Alba, Suarez, Pique: you will play this way.
They replied: fuck off, lol.

Then, you can bench all of them and end 4th on a table.
Or accept "it is what it is", lose your spine, do what players want and still win some titles.

I mean, you know the story about Pique, EV and New York...

So, you have 2 solutions:
1. Do what amigos want and win some titles, but suck in a CL
2. Or bench amigos, play with Riki and Alena, end 5th on a table, lose money from sponsors, lose all titles and get angry fans and media

We are so deep into this, that there is no "happy ending" in this moment.

Now when you sum it all, I don't find it that hard to believe that amigos are against Setien:
1. Because he is either totally clueless and lost
2. Or because he wants to implement his ideas, which 32 years old players don't agree with like: formation, 3 at the back, physical training regimes which oldies can't do.

You act as if we live in a perfect world.
If my boss sucks, I will tell that.
Especially if I am a goat and can't get fired in any way (like in the case of amigos).
I won't be a hypocrite and I will say: if I were Pique or Messi and if I wouldn't like coaches ideas, I would openly say: this sucks, this is not a right direction.

And then again, it is not as if we have hired Klopp.
We hired a midtable coach who was fired from every job, lol.

So, this story is not that simple.
If you have spoiled amigos, then hire Bielsa or Mourinho.
You can't hire Unzue, Eusebio or Setien and expect respect from players who won 8-10 la ligas towards a guy who barely managed to finish in top10 places in la liga.

As always, we suck on so many levels.
This Titanic has 100s of problems and they won't go away with EV, Raki, Setien or in 1-2 summers.

Great post, I fully agree

 

[MTL_Barca]

Who even is "the dressing room"? It's so easy to throw that term around for the journalists so these kind of stories are always a bit suspicious.

But it doesn't matter anyway, we all know the majority of the old guard has to be replaced by younger and more athletic players there is no way around it no matter who is the coach.

 

[te amo barca]

Man, cannot wait for the day when this board, our Spanish core (Pique, Busi, Alba, Roberto) and Suarez are gone. So sick of this group of players and management. Messi's role will inevitably reduce in the coming seasons as well. If this board goes on a rampage this summer and buys wrong, we can become AC Milan 2.0 real quick after Messi hangs up his boots.

 

[Barcaman]

We wanted a coach to play Barca way again and we got it. Have patience.
If he fails we are at the same place we were under Valverde, only things are happening at faster rate.