Real Madrid (old thread)

[Beast]

He is not like Sneijder , he is better offensively (of course when on form ) but he doesn't track back or contribute to the defense
perfectly fits 4-3-3!! but not Di Maria ? what the hell !!!
Di Maria is the suitable winger for 4-3-3 , with 3 men midfield in a 4-3-3 u need a midfield with 3 players who can track back and hassle the other team when attacking (see Deco for example )
Kaka will keep waiving his two arms in protest and watch from far like a striker .

 

[El Gato]

In 4-3-3 you don't have typical wingers, you have inside forwards or depending on their skills you can put them as attacking mids with playmaking role. That would be Kaka's job and that in my opinion was supposed to be Sneijder's job at Camp Nou (1-0).

4 defenders
2 center mids with more of a defending role in the assigned area of midfield (Motta-Cambiasso in Inter, Alonso-used to be Lass/Gago in Pellegrini's and it could stay like this in Mourinho's but this time with Khedira)
1 center mid with a box-to-box role, responsible for bringing the ball forward and playmaking (most of the time Granero in Pellegrini's team and Sneijder while playing 4-3-3 with 2 inside forwards in Inter, that's the kind of player we need because Granero doesn't fit to this postition, Schweiny would do the job really or maybe if De La Red returns...), also we could assign this player to a flank to be more offensive if we need him to just like we did with Guti all along when he played first team eg. against Deportivo, not a proper center mid, but playing slightly to the left, that's where Di Maria plays for Argentina (where he's wasted quite frankly)
1 attacking mid with much more of a playmaking and carrying the ball on the opposing side of the pitch role (Kaka in ours, Sneijder in Inter) or an inside forward (that's the reason why IMO Di Maria doesn't really fit, I think he's more of a casual winger than a Ronaldo kind of guy)
1 inside forward just behind the striker, usually free to switch flanks with the other guy who he's in line with (Ronaldo/Pedro Leon even though he's more of a winger but if he will be Ronaldo's backup then he will get used to it, Eto'o)
1 proper striker (Higuain, Benzema but I don't really know about him as he seems to be more of a centre forward than a striker as he gets caught offside REALLY often and likes to work down the flanks helping out the teammates, Milito in Inter)

Don't get me wrong. I mean, we have overload of players and we can't fit em all and quite realistically, we won't bench Kaka (unless he undergoes surgery which will remove the problem) so that would be the only role we would see him play. We won't fit 4-2-3-1 because we won't have a Xavi kind of person in the middle and it won't work without the guy.

 

[Beast]

Kaka is not a box to box midfielder and no the 4-3-3 isn't what Barcelona play .. the usual 4-3-3 have two wingers and a striker.
in our case it's Di Maria-CR on the wings and Higuain in the center .
Kaka failed in the 4-3-3 cause he need space

 

[El Gato]

I don't think you've understood my post. I was talking about Inter's 4-3-3 under Mourinho and it actually goes together quite nicely. Also, I didn't say that Kaka is supposed to be a box-to-box midfielder. Read my post again, but do it well this time just so we avoid confusion.

 

[barcetia]

Kaka is not a box to box midfielder and no the 4-3-3 isn't what Barcelona play .. the usual 4-3-3 have two wingers and a striker.
in our case it's Di Maria-CR on the wings and Higuain in the center .
Kaka failed in the 4-3-3 cause he need space

exactly. he had much space at the first el clasico and he was your best player!

 

[El Gato]

I agree and that's exactly what I'm saying. He was our best player, because he was put in a 4-3-3 just like I told you. Our team was:
Iker
Ramos-Albiol-Pepe-Arbeloa
Lass-Xabi-Marcelo
Ronaldo-Higuain-Kaka

and that line up is just what I've described. If you had a chance to watch Marcelo in that game you could see that he was actually running the ball mostly in the left-central part of the pitch as an equivalent to Lass who had more of a defensive role, but had to take over the right side of the pitch where he struggled through most of last season. Kaka was given a free electron role together with Ronaldo who apart from kicking the ball into Valdes didn't do much. They were switching flanks, running the play, they actually overrun Barca in first 20-30 minutes of the game. That is why 4-3-3 suits Kaka. It's not the Barca type of 4-3-3, because they have clear wingers signed out with Ibra being a target man in the center. We have two very offensive players who love to be everpresent on the opponent's half.

 

[barcetia]

well, imagine playing the 4-3-3 against a parked bus. What will Kaka do? No space.

it's not depending on what formation you play(if it's a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3), its depending on what formation your opponent plays..

 

[El Gato]

Barca didn't play a parked bus did they ? + you do not change your formation according to what the other team plays, because you lose your flow, you can only change players so they can fulfil different tasks or tell the present ones to play in a slightly different way (slower, faster, passing, crossing, long balls etc.)

 

[barcetia]

Barca didn't play a parked bus did they ? + you do not change your formation according to what the other team plays, because you lose your flow, you can only change players so they can fulfil different tasks or tell the present ones to play in a slightly different way (slower, faster, passing, crossing, long balls etc.)

yeah, that's why he played so good. because it was a seamingly open game. but what will Kaka do in a 4-3-3 when the opponent parks the bus? screw the el clasico that match will never be about drawing, only winning..

 

[El Gato]

That's what happened to him through rest of the season, he played against different teams and flopped in 90% of the games. I don't know whether it's down to formation or his persona, I think he could have simply lost his flow 2 years ago and can't find it until now having shined in about 4-6 games in the whole season. 4-2-3-1 could maybe fit Madrid and Kaka as he didn't have bad games with Brazil playing that formation, but I think it may harm us to play with such gap in the middle between DMs and AMs.

BTW
In FM Kaka in 4-2-3-1 kills it so maybe..

 

[Beast]

Wolfe Inter didn't play 4-3-3 , Inter played 4-3-1-2 most of the time
you want Mourinho 4-3-3 look back to Chelsea season 04/05 - 05/06 where Duff-Robben on the flanks and Cole was a stand in winger..

Do u understand now ?

Oh and i don't know which team you were watching but in the first classico Real Madrid played 4-2-3-1 not 4-3-3 !!

 

[JCCR_FCB]

Ok... guys, you already arrived at a conclusion...? Can someone of you tell me the final version?...

 

[Beast]

I don't know what Wolfe was watching but we did play 4-2-3-1 in the classico
-----------------Defense---------------------
--------Lass------------Xabi--------------
CR-------------Kaka------------------Marcelo
------------------Higuain------------------
won't be far from Mourinho idea's or the 4-3-3

 

[JCCR_FCB]

I don't know what Wolfe was watching but we did play 4-2-3-1 in the classico
-----------------Defense---------------------
--------Lass------------Xabi--------------
CR-------------Kaka------------------Marcelo
------------------Higuain------------------
won't be far from Mourinho idea's or the 4-3-3

That's your version? Tell me, for you, Benzema remains out of the first team?

 

[El Gato]

Maybe on paper or a pre-match Spanish TV formation introductions. We couldn't play 4-2-3-1 as Ronaldo was running down the middle and the left flank much more than you'd expect him to and he had to swap positions with someone so that someone couldn't be Marcelo. Also Lass was given the same role of being an RCM with more offensive tasks than Alonso.
Same thing with April El Clasico, 4-3-3 with (from the right) Gago-Xabi-Marcelo and CR-Higuain-VdV where CR and the Dutch are slightly behind Gonzalo with different tasks to fulfil.

My version:
-----------------Defense---------------------
--------Lass----Xabi-------Marcelo---------
CR-------Higuain-------Kaka

You could also visualise it 4-3-2-1, but 4-3-3 makes much more sense. This season it is likely to change to 4-2-3-1, but if so then we need a box-to-box mid with good defensive skills to avoid having a gap between DMs and AMs which is why Khedira is coming (that gap was a reason why we got overwhelmed in midfield in El Clasicos).